112 réponses à ce sujet

[Deflagratio]

Sexual relations is often the climax (no pun intended) of a romantic engagement, at least in the short term. Like it or not, Games often have very short-term stories centered around an immediate conflict that needs resolution, so the idea of The Inquisitor and His/Her beloved retiring in Starkhaven and starting a family is best left to headcanon and fanfiction. I don't think the 'Sex as a Reward' trope comes out of an intentional act, but simply being molded to the reality of storytelling in the short term. If you look at something like Mass Effect's 3 romance narratives, I think you examine the issue in a different light with some of the most rewarding romance scenes having nothing to do with sex. The power of more time to stretch the arc, am I right?

[Osena109]

Saying such a piece on BSN of all places is bound to get you hate mail.

 

​Although I don't know what's "old fashioned" about your belief. It's possible to disagree with same sex relations and still acknowledge that they can be about love/lust just like any straight relationship so I thought you were trolling initially to deny this.

 

No matter, get behind my flame shield and I'll cover your exit from the thread:

 

Thank you for the help but i never said any thing about lust nor did i say any thing about same sex couples just that sex should be used to  proecrate but ill  yes ill retire form this tread

[Enigmatick]

Saints Row IV put it best I think. Though sex and romance are a natural part of character interaction and in RPGs, there have been great RPGs that haven't had any form of sex in them. However, that's not to say sex can't be done well. The problem is Bioware's never done it well, I don't think. In Origins, it was an absolute joke, gifting companions to boost their 'approval' just to bed them in the end. Dragon Age 2 had the silly heart indicators. Mass Effect's romance wasn't terrible, but it wasn't good either. Everything boiled down to "Companion has emotional problems, solve them, sex them, romance is never mentioned again". Our companions shouldn't be forced to have problems that we have to help them solve, nor should the romance be almost totally thrown away after the love scene. It should be a big deal, something our companions hold more importantly and something that we can hold more importantly, not just a series of dialogue options, gift-givings, a companion quest, then sex.

Bloody Mary's fight is a plothole in itself.

[Enigmatick]

Spoiler

She's not dead.

Spoiler

If her intention/order was to kill him why didn't she just shoot him?

[NoForgiveness]

Isabela's romance is actually proof that he's wrong.... you ask for a kiss and she shows up at the amell estate ready to **** your brains out. Duel a big ass dude with huge mother ****** weapons to protect her and win her a ship and that's when the love develops. Love is the end game.

[HellaciousHutch]

I don't see ACTUAL women complaining about this subject. All I see is fat men with beards, who like to believe they're women complaining about this subject.

 

Sex is a part of relationships. Sex is a natural part of life. Video games are, more and more, trying to imitate aspects of real life to make the world more believable and relatable; to immerse the player in the experience. Therefore, it's only natural that sex and relationship building be in video games to help with this growth, in my opinion.

 

If you want to see poorly planned and laughable romance, play any of The Witcher games, the series that's trying to be mature for nothing more than the sake of being mature and 'adult'. Why didn't he bang on those in his video?

[Ophir147]

Spoiler

She's not dead.

[Deflagratio]

I don't see ACTUAL women complaining about this subject. All I see is fat men with beards, who like to believe they're women complaining about this subject.

 

Sex is a part of relationships. Sex is a natural part of life. Video games are, more and more, trying to imitate aspects of real life to make the world more believable and relatable; to immerse the player in the experience. Therefore, it's only natural that sex and relationship building be in video games to help with this growth, in my opinion.

 

If you want to see poorly planned and laughable romance, play any of The Witcher games, the series that's trying to be mature for nothing more than the sake of being mature and 'adult'. Why didn't he bang on those in his video?

 

Do you even Tumblr? Making something out of nothing and muddying the waters of actual tragedy is how you get reblogs!

[Ashira Shepard]

I don't see ACTUAL women complaining about this subject. All I see is fat men with beards, who like to believe they're women complaining about this subject.

 

I'm going to have to ask for proof of your telepathy in order to know the gender of everyone who has ever talked about this particular subject.

[HellaciousHutch]

Heck... I'd even say that sex IS a reward to some degree. It's a reward you get for being in a relationship with someone you care for a love (or maybe not, perhaps just a one night stand). I can't think of one person who doesn't like sex to some degree, and I can't think of one person who wouldn't think of sex as some type of reward for doing...something.

[HellaciousHutch]

I'm going to have to ask for proof of your telepathy in order to know the gender of everyone who has ever talked about this particular subject.

 

I'm not saying women don't complain about the subject, but, I am saying the ones that are the loudest are fat men with beards who white knight in an attempt to please a female audience in the hopes to acquire some reward. It's pretty funny really when you think about it.

[Ashira Shepard]

Heck... I'd even say that sex IS a reward to some degree. It's a reward you get for being in a relationship with someone you care for a love (or maybe not, perhaps just a one night stand). I can't think of one person who doesn't like sex to some degree, and I can't think of one person who wouldn't think of sex as some type of reward for doing...something.

 

Again...asexual people might be one of those types of people who has no interest in sex? And wouldn't enjoy sex at all?

 

I'm not saying women don't complain about the subject, but, I am saying the ones that are the loudest are fat men with beards who white knight in an attempt to please a female audience in the hopes to acquire some reward. It's pretty funny really when you think about it.

 

I'm still going to ask how you know that to the degree that you're so adamant about it.

 

Sex may be a part of living if it's desired, but that doesn't mean it can't be looked at regards how it's being handled. I do agree he should have brought up the Witcher series, but maybe he didn't think they deserved the scorn as much as Bioware games did? I don't know how the dev team for the Witcher games handle their approach to sex or how they react to people criticizing them about what they do wrong. So I can't say.

[HellaciousHutch]

Again...asexual people might be one of those types of people who has no interest in sex? And wouldn't enjoy sex at all?

 

 

I'm still going to ask how you know that to the degree that you're so adamant about it.

 

Sex may be a part of living if it's desired, but that doesn't mean it can't be looked at regards how it's being handled. I do agree he should have brought up the Witcher series, but maybe he didn't think they deserved the scorn as much as Bioware games did? I don't know how the dev team for the Witcher games handle their approach to sex or how they react to people criticizing them about what they do wrong. So I can't say.

 

I can assure you, that, the people complaining about sex as a reward in video games aren't asexual, at least the ones making the videos and the like, and heck...even asexual people can have a low desire for sexual relations with other people; it doesn't mean the complete absence of sexual relations, FYI.

 

To your second point: Not sure what to say or how to respond other than it's based on what I've observed on the internet, and when communicating with people on the internet etc.

 

The people who write articles, the people who make videos, the people who get up on a soapbox and preach the subject of sex and unequal treatment of women in the video game media (the vocals) are usually male. I hardly see women making a fuss about such issues, and when they do, they usually seem to do it in a much more mature and adult way than the males who try to white knight for the sake of karma with the female gamer community.

[General TSAR]

Sex has been a reward since...well....ever. So naturally we'll get sex as a reward, but not likely to the extent of the Witcher's sex cards.

Saying such a piece on BSN of all places is bound to get you hate mail.

 

​Although I don't know what's "old fashioned" about your belief. It's possible to disagree with same sex relations and still acknowledge that they can be about love/lust just like any straight relationship so I thought you were trolling initially to deny this.

 

No matter, get behind my flame shield and I'll cover your exit from the thread:

 

+1 for understanding and an additional +1 for the Teutonic knight.

[Ashira Shepard]

I can assure you, that, the people complaining about sex as a reward in video games aren't asexual, at least the ones making the videos and the like, and heck...even asexual people can have a low desire for sexual relations with other people; it doesn't mean the complete absence of sexual relations, FYI.

 

To your second point: Not sure what to say or how to respond other than it's based on what I've observed on the internet, and when communicating with people on the internet etc.

 

The people who write articles, the people who make videos, the people who get up on a soapbox and preach the subject of sex and unequal treatment of women in the video game media (the vocals) are usually male. I hardly see women making a fuss about such issues, and when they do, they usually seem to do it in a much more mature and adult way than the males who try to white knight for the sake of karma with the female gamer community.

 

That'll usually be because angry dudebro gamers are more likely to listen to another man about these kinds of things than listen to a whiny lady making something out of nothing. This is an actual thing that happens with all kinds of groups. Non-trans people will be listened to about issues over actual trans people saying the same things. Heterosexual will be listened to over the voice of someone who is not. Etc etc

 

Otherwise those pesky other people are just complaining about nothing, amirite? [/sarcasm]

 

About the asexual thing: I know that. But there are asexuals who literally have no interest in sex, and saying you can't think of anyone who has no interest in sex is just ignoring the fact that there are people who just don't have any interest in it?

[HellaciousHutch]

That'll usually be because angry dudebro gamers are more likely to listen to another man about these kinds of things than listen to a whiny lady making something out of nothing. This is an actual thing that happens with all kinds of groups. Non-trans people will be listened to about issues over actual trans people saying the same things. Heterosexual will be listened to over the voice of someone who is not. Etc etc

 

Otherwise those pesky other people are just complaining about nothing, amirite? [/sarcasm]

 

About the asexual thing: I know that. But there are asexuals who literally have no interest in sex, and saying you can't think of anyone who has no interest in sex is just ignoring the fact that there are people who just don't have any interest in it?

 

That's true, but even then, asexual people know that several people--several non-asexual people, the majority of the world--DO see sex as a rewarding experience when involved in a relationship with another person you care for. That much is common sense to ANY person. They might not like sex, however, they sure as heck understand that other people do.

 

And let's be honest, the relationship building in a video game is  NOT going to be perfect, because it's a mere simulation of relationship building and love. I don't see why people think it should be so close to the real world.

[Ashira Shepard]

That's true, but even then, asexual people know that several people--several non-asexual people, the majority of the world--DO see sex as a rewarding experience when involved in a relationship with another person you care for. That much is common sense to ANY person. They might not like sex, however, they sure as heck understand that other people do.

 

And let's be honest, the relationship building in a video game is  NOT going to be perfect, because it's a mere simulation of relationship building and love. I don't see why people think it should be so close to the real world.

 

Ah, yes, and what right do they have to challenge the concept that sex is a mandatory experience?

 

Also this "mere" simulation does not exist in a vacuum. It will played by people, sold to a society that has certain expectations, however varied they are. How it handles certain things, depending on the tone of the game, is actually very important.

 

I don't expect anything from the likes of Saints Row, besides everything going in the most extreme and weird directions.

 

If DA:I wants to claim maturity regards relationships however, then how it handles intimacy, romance and sex is going to determine how well it did. It's insidiously easy to reinforce preconceptions and ideas, these are things you grow up with and just...accept, because what else is there? Isn't that how it always, always works? So when something shows up that just plays into that you don't blink because it's normal to you.

 

Either that, or you're not effected by it.

[Adhin]

So no, not really. If you look at the history of there games that do this ME was the only one that really 'ended' that way (well maybe KotOR and Jade empire I honestly can't remember the romances there). The FIRST time they ever did romances was Baldur's Gate 2 and those kept going past that point in most cases. Even with out the expansion which furthered the romance archs. Which I really liked, wish DAI would do that down the line. DAO Awakening I think failed with that due to just replacing all the companions as some stand alone thing.

 

Speaking of DAO that wasn't the 'end' of romances either, for the most part they'd keep going... and you could kinda be a dick and sleep around and that had situations crop up about that behavior. I expect no less from DAI to be honest, I doubt 'sex' is the end point or the 'reward'. Original ME did that, but it made sense from a military/story perspective. You where, ultimately just flirting but held back due to your role as commander (and captin). Things went crazy at the end and that's what lead up to it. No real excuse for ME2/3 though they just kept the formula but went more awkward with the cloths on approach.

 

But hey, that's Mass Effect, not Dragon Age. So far Dragon Age has been pretty good about making it more complex and interesting. Personally, I prefer it that way.

[HellaciousHutch]

Ah, yes, and what right do they have to challenge the concept that sex is a mandatory experience?

 

Also this "mere" simulation does not exist in a vacuum. It will played by people, sold to a society that has certain expectations, however varied they are. How it handles certain things, depending on the tone of the game, is actually very important.

 

I don't expect anything from the likes of Saints Row, besides everything going in the most extreme and weird directions.

 

If DA:I wants to claim maturity regards relationships however, then how it handles intimacy, romance and sex is going to determine how well it did. It's insidiously easy to reinforce preconceptions and ideas, these are things you grow up with and just...accept, because what else is there? Isn't that how it always, always works? So when something shows up that just plays into that you don't blink because it's normal to you.

 

Either that, or you're not effected by it.

 

To be fair, BioWare DOES handle relationships in one of the most mature ways. If you look at most any other modern RPG series, or modern game in general, sex and relationships are laughably implemented; some intentional, like Saints Row IV, because it's a parody on video game relationship building and sex.

 

The example I gave above, The Witcher, you literally get 'porno cards' from the women you sleep with, like a mini game, that you can go back and view any time you please.

[metatheurgist]

So what about us straight people that don't want children? Are we allowed to bone or not?

No you are not allowed to bone for pleasure. Pleasure is a sin.

Here's some other things you can't do:

Well that's Pinky and the Brain put into a whole new light.

 
There are quite a few fan theories that they are in fact gay.

[Giantdeathrobot]

If anyone is asking for a video game to mirror the exact intricacies of how real-life relationships work (or are perceived to work), outside of an impossibly elaborate dating sim, well they're asking for something that can't really be given. Sex is a reward? Sure, so is everything in a game, especially an RPG, if you stretch the definition. Exactly how do you implement it otherwise?

 

At some point, the developers have to make things clear to the player. Action X (say, being nice to a person) has reaction Y (person likes you more) leading to result/reward Z (stat boost/new quest/romance/ect.). That's how dialog in any RPG ever will always work, because it's a game and it's not meant to fully represent how people interact all the time. Asking for this level of intricacies in romance over anything else means even more focus will have to be placed on them. Then people will complain that Bioware is abandoning the RPG side of things to concentrate on shagging pixels or something.

 

I mean, we don't ask for Dragon Age combat to 100% reflect real-life tussles, why should we ask Dragon Age romance to mirror a complex sexual life? I'm not a big fan of romances personally, but Bioware still does it better than anything else I saw that's not a dating sim. What other examples are we supposed to use, Skyrim's marriage after just meeting the person? The Witcher's sex cards? The token ''guy meets girl'' romance found in countless movies or games or whatnot?

[aTigerslunch]

DA:A did reflect romances. If female and married Alistair, they talk about it. If others, its a letter left in place.

 

DA2 also mentioned by Lelinana and reflected in lore if she was the one romancing the Warden.

 

I am quite sure DA:I will carry on with the same information.

 

I pretty much ignore jimquisition videos. I saw one then said, that's enough from him. I prefer listening to gamer(forgot whole name offhand). She is much better than him. I don't care much for other dudebro opinions in general. They say DA2 sucked, I say it doesn't. They say Witcher 2 doesn't make women look or feel like sex objects, I say it does.  They equaling some not all. I can never say all or speak for all. Just those I see, hear or read on the subject.

 

I like the relationships in DA cause they are bit more filling. I don't have to go run around trying to save them from some baddie like few others do. That is annoyingly too often. Yes, sidequests for them are there, but the plot isn't to run around the game seeking them out. DA has it optional where quite a few others have it tied into the main quest or plotline.

[Senya]

I don't agree with him, but I can see the points he makes.