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[NUM13ER]

I enjoy the Jimquistion nearly every instance, even agree with some of the points made in that article, but this is one episode that reeked of self loathing if ever there was one.

The sheer amount of misandry and quite frankly misinformation he spews in that article borders on the ridiculous at times. I get it's all a persona, but he clearly abandons all objectivity in favour of singling out BioWare, of all people, when in reality few companies have been remotely close to as inclusive.
 

He gladly commends far more shallow products as being somehow "more honest" on the dubious basis they never had any substance. But then ignores many of the Mass Effect romances he labels as "sex prizes" didn't actually have physical pay-offs but emotional ones.

It's clear at some point during this rant he completely lost the plot.

[Altima Darkspells]

It's an rpg: everything is a reward.

I've played some RPGs where everything felt like a punishment. One of them rhymes with...Shmagon Vlage Blue.

[Dermain]

Yeah, no, of course, Sigmund Freud is not credible at all! He's only cited in every psychology text book ever made. 

 

Freud is cited simply because he got the ball rolling with his hair brained theory. He flooded the field with people that wanted to prove him wrong, and because of that is partly responsible for advancements in psychology. Freud also got a few things right such as defense mechanisms (which was further researched scientifically by his daughter). 

 

You may now carry on with the whole sex equals reward etc. arguments.

[obsessedwjpn]

Jimquisition?  Yeah, not that watching that dreck.  It sounds like a whole lot of of slippery slope and other logical fallacies.  I never cared about the sex scenes in Bioware games.  The romances, to me, offered more character interaction and a layer of depth not offered in other games.  I LOVE character interaction, which is something Bioware is good at.  And good God there's nothing wrong with expecting sex in a meaningful relationship anyway.  As Sigmund Freud once put it....

 

The only unusual sexual activitiy is not having any.

 

I would be careful about using this quote by Sigmund Freud. For one, he has already been discredited and much of his work has been proven false. Second, not EVERYONE has or needs sex. So please don't use a quote to suggest someone who doesn't have any sexual activities is somehow unusual. That is rather discriminatory.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I see his basic point, but the Dragon Age games don't seem like a good example of this problem. The majority of the previous romances have story arcs that don't end with sex, and there's even a romance that doesn't include sex at all. (And apparently there are romances in DAI you can continue without triggering the sex scene.) DA2 doesn't even have any sex scenes, just some kissing and fades to black! (I'm not sure that anyone found the scenes in DAO rewarding, but I guess that's beside the point.) The gift system in DAO could make things pretty stupid, but it's long gone and not coming back for the latest game.

 

Games where the sex scene is right before the big battle and you have very little dialogue with your love interest afterwards - I'm looking at you, Mass Effect 1&2 and NWN2 - bug me a lot more on this score. One reason I like the Dragon Age romances the best over all is that sex isn't the endgame, it's just a point along the way.

[SerCambria358]

Brought up an issue that isnt relevant to this game

[Elhanan]

It's an rpg: everything is a reward.

Don't need an RPG; in my life, breathing is a reward. 

I believe that sex is too overused in many games, and should be implemented maturely; prefer romantic overtures rather than digital escapades. That said, I also believe that many in the media have misplaced opinions for news (did not view the vid; choose not to).

I also believe that Bioware has a decent record on the subject, and has more captivating stories of romance over those of rutting hounds. If the latter is unveiled by clues in the game, it is fairly easy to avoid the offending material to continue the remaining story.

Yes; would prefer the entire game to be the way I would like, but am fairly certain that nearly everyone desires that similar goal. So as long as the developer allows the material to be easily skipped, avoided, etc, it is little different than life, where I avoid the same sorts of things.

[Khavos]

Oh, man.  This is a tough one.  On one hand, I don't like morbidly obese social warriors.  On the other hand, I don't like Bioware's cheesy and unnecessary romances regardless of whether badly-animated sex is included or not.

 

I think I'll sit this SJW civil war out.  

[slimgrin]

Jim's a smart guy. I either agree or strongly disagree with him. 'Sex is the culmination of a minigame'....well no sh*t Sherlock. Sorry Jim, If every other medium can include it, so can games. The funny thing here is sex is not the problem with Bioware's emphasis on romance. The problem is Bioware's emphasis on Romance.

[CronoDragoon]

Jim's a smart guy. I either agree or strongly disagree with him. 'Sex is the culmination of a minigame'....well no sh*t Sherlock. Sorry Jim, If every other medium can include it, so can games. The funny thing here is sex is not the problem with Bioware's emphasis on romance. The problem is Bioware's emphasis on Romance.

 

Why is it a problem, since it's such a small, optional part of their games?

[Ailith Tycane]

Oh, I wonder what's going on in this thread?

 

*Sees someone use the term "misandry" unironically

 

[Khavos]

Why is it a problem, since it's such a small, optional part of their games?

Ask the people over in the Story forum, who have devoted, at minimum, around 10,000 posts to the subject of romance.  If it's a small, optional part of the game, the majority of Bioware's hardcore fans appear to be unaware of that fact.  

[CronoDragoon]

Ask the people over in the Story forum, who have devoted, at minimum, around 10,000 posts to the subject of romance.  If it's a small, optional part of the game, the majority of Bioware's hardcore fans appear to be unaware of that fact.  

 

Okay. So what's the problem?

[obsessedwjpn]

Okay. So what's the problem?

 

Yeah I have to agree with CronoDragoon on this. Just because a large portion of fans support and love the romance part of Bioware games doesn't mean that the romance sub-plots are any more integral than they were before. They are a small part of the game as a whole and just because many people appreciate them doesn't change that fact.

 

Besides, what is wrong with people who enjoy that aspect of the game? It doesn't change anything about how anyone else can enjoy the game.

[Maria Caliban]

Oh, I wonder what's going on in this thread?
 
*Sees someone use the term "misandry" unironically
 

I have met a few men who seemed to genuinely hate other men.

Of course, these were also the Nice Guy™ types who thought since other men were all pigs and they were so great, women must be stupid for not seeing what a great catch they are.

Ask the people over in the Story forum, who have devoted, at minimum, around 10,000 posts to the subject of romance. If it's a small, optional part of the game, the majority of Bioware's hardcore fans appear to be unaware of that fact.

Because we're nuts. You can't blame BioWare for its fans.

[OctagonalSquare]

Sex is the most overrated, most overhyped and the most overinflated commodity, service and skill we have. All it ever really does is give you a few moments of pleasure and a burden in the form of offsprings. It sure feels good but so does other things and other things have a lot more innate worth.

Nothing has innate worth.

[Mes]

I really don't think Bioware is guilty of sex as a reward thing. But who knows, maybe Inquisition will introduce sex cards. 

 

Ask the people over in the Story forum, who have devoted, at minimum, around 10,000 posts to the subject of romance.  If it's a small, optional part of the game, the majority of Bioware's hardcore fans appear to be unaware of that fact.  

 

Baaaaaahumbug! WHO CARES! Person A likes X part of the game, person B like Y part of the game. Whoooo caaaAAAaaAAAaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaares.

[Kidd]

I don't get why he makes it seem like the entire romance arc is just something you do to get the sex scene (not that most BioWare games even have sex scenes). That's definitely not how I see it. Especially since the relationships have content after the fact.

But yes, the first night spent together matters quite a bit from a narrative stand-point. It needs to. The first night would for most people (and thus, most characters) be a pretty big thing. Most of the tension and groundwork for the relation building will already be in place at that point. For sexual people, it's basically the measuring stick to figure that things are getting pretty serious. After that, most people get more relaxed since the biggest hurdle is over.

This also means that after sex, there's not much drama or interesting conflict you can put in there. At least not without making that a huge portion of the game (I can picture something like marital conflicts, sure, but most of my ideas seem to require resources far beyond what a romance could realistically have allotted to it without the game being a dating sim).

He has a definite point about the "buy presents, get sex" thing DAO has going for it though. It's more or less a pretty darn problematic side-effect of the friendship system in general, but I can easily see how that can come off as incredibly creepy.

[KaiserShep]

This guy obviously never tried the Garrus romance.

[Allan Schumacher]

Snipping this one in the bud.  It's something we're aware of (and I think did in DA2) but the topic is already flirting with a plot of very political discussions regarding sex and love and so forth.

 

I received a request to give this thread a second chance as they were enjoying where the discussion was going.

 

 

As long as we can move away from topics such as what role sex has in our society and even the tangents of LGBT romances and how valid/appropriate they are, I am willing to give it a go.

 

Discuss the video and Jim's thoughts and as always, be cordial and respectful to different opinions.

[Solid N7]

I agree with Jim in some points, Bioware needs to do the romances more important to the story and not for mere obligation.

[Fishy]

George S. Patton Once said : Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.

 

It's more expectation rather than  a reward when you start dating a new romantric partner. In Mass effect 2 if you date Tali . She's unsure of wanting to have sex with Shepard and Shepard  is quite comprehensive of the situation. It was actually quite romantic for a video gamey relationship and most relation in the game continue after the ''reward'' like people implies here.

 

Anyway .. You need to love someone more than yourself first before you can understand that sex is more than just the transfer of fluid ( Some of you need to cut the porn a bit). Call me a romantic I don't care.

[meganbytez]

bioware's romances, specifically the sex scenes, have never felt like a "reward" to me at all. It has just felt like part of the story and part of the story is a relationship with a character you like. The character doesn't agree to sleep with your character just because you've done things for them, but because they in the story they love your character. 

[KC_Prototype]

Just from the video, I don't like this guy.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Wait i don't get it... how you are rewarded i mean you decided go into relationship with another person and sex is part of that relationship which is true in real life more often than not.Pretty sure in all cases in dao you could refuse and still remain in relationship and devs said i belive in some cases this will be possible in dai as well.