207 réponses à ce sujet

[RedIntifada]

*DA and ME spoilers in this post

 

I just finished listening to the Dragon Age romance panel at GaymerX2. It was fantastic and people should check it out here:

http://www.gamespot....g/1100-6421222/

 

I am curious to hear more from the writers about why they think Polyamory would be difficult to do. On the panel there is the suggestion that if they were to do polyamory it would be with the playing character joining a pre-existing couple. This would be very interesting and poly triads (i.e 3 people in a closed relationship) are great. Although this would cause its own limitations in that the the groups other sexualities and having them fit in with player preferences would be difficult. For instance if the couple was F/M then the player would only be interested if their character was bisexual or if the pair were both male or both female then they would also have to have compatible hetero/****** leanings or be bisexual AND on top of all that the PC would have to be attracted to both of them.

 

And on top of all of that scripting would have to decide to what extent you can treat each as individuals i.e. one you might argue with and the other you don't.

 

I would have thought it would be easier (from both a programming and story perspective)  to simply allow for you to romance multiple polyamorous characters. In the panel, David Gaider and the others talk about 4 stages of romance from flirting to closing off other possible romances. If the LI's are poly, why do other romances need to be cut off rather than just letting both separate romance stories run to their conclusion?

 

You can have both sets of content and then just have an epilogue which chose how you related to both of them at the end.

 

Take DA:O for instance both Zevran and Leliana (particularly after being hardened) could have been poly. Why not rather than writing a dialogue sequence where they say... sorry you have to pick me or them... where they just say... oh so you are also with them... that's cool! It sounds like a similar amount of work.

 

And if there was a pre-chapter ending romance scene (like in Mass Effect) why not just run them back to back in the same way you can have Allers appear in your bedroom?

 

Polypeople would get more content but that is part of the advantage of not having to choose only one lover in the first place  .

 

You could even allow for them to have other lovers with content that is already there. For instance in ME3 if you don't have a relationship with Garrus or Tali they end up together. If you ended up having a romance with one of them then this doesn't happen. What would happen if this kiss happened if EITHER you don't romance either of them OR you romance Tali and one other character? Tali may have felt emboldened by your poly relationship to pursue a second lover on her own.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hizoku]

Being in a polyamorous relationship myself(tri) I'm also interested in seeing a poly relationship put in a game, of course they'll have to put in a bit more content in order to make it feel complete due to there being more than one person but if done right, it can turn out to be one of the more favored of the romances of any game.

[KainD]

Sigh, we can't even get enough diversity of world views in the party. Something I personally would consider a bigger priority. 

[Vapaa]

Too much resources for too little gain.

 

I'd rather see ace and trans representation before poly.

[RedIntifada]

Sigh, we can't even get enough diversity of world views in the party. Something I personally would consider a bigger priority. 

 

I think diversity of world views is important also and something that should be fleshed out more. What sorts of party member ethics would you like to see in game that you feel have been missing?

 

Interestingly the panel also raises the possibility of LI's refusing to have a relationship with you if your ethics and theirs don't align. Which I think is great, although I tend to do that anyway, i.e. I would probably never have a relationship with Fenris because of his views towards mages.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I would love to see poly representation if they can work out the code somehow. Even the idea they had of a couple that you can join would be nice to see.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I managed to have a poly relationship in one BioWare game - Hordes of the Underdark, specifically - because of a bug.

 

(It turns out that if your character is the true love of the Sleeping Man but also in a relationship with Valen, you don't have to break up with him as long as you don't say anything about it. And I damn well wasn't breaking up with the sexy Tiefling because some guy I'd never spoken to was apparently in love with me. So I got both epilogues, hooray!)

 

I would very much like to see a poly relationship that was, y'know, intentional. While it might not be ideal, I imagine it would be relatively simple to pull it off in a similar way to the bug - two separate partners that tolerate each other and don't force a confrontation.

[RedIntifada]

Too much resources for too little gain.

 

I'd rather see ace and trans representation before poly.

 

Why do you think it would take a lot more resources? The developers seem to agree with you on this one but I don't see how having a player being allowed to romance Leliana and Zevran at the same time for example, would require any more resources then having a whole bunch of dialogue about how they can't be with you because of the other.

 

I am also for Trans or Ace characters being written.

[KainD]

What sorts of party member ethics would you like to see in game that you feel have been missing?

 

The selfish and ''evil'' type of character, that are in the whole thing for their own personal gain. We currently have a whole cast of characters that fight for the greater good, law, order and honor. 

[lothvamp]

From what I recall from their panel last year, it's not as simple as you make it sound because that is exactly what they don't want to do. They don't want it to seem like separate relationships, but actually do polyamory justice and not make it the whole... well, you can romance X and Y at the same time, so that's kind of polyamory. Like the difference between actually having a bisexual or pan character or just having them available to both pc genders. There's a difference. So while I'd still love to see it, I do understand that the dynamics for a workable poly relationship might be difficult on the tech end for now. Something to strive for. Would also love to see a trans character, among others, and more fleshed out relationship (including just friendship, camaraderie) mechanics. Gotta love variety and depth of character.

[RedIntifada]

They don't want it to seem like separate relationships, but actually do polyamory justice and not make it the whole... well, you can romance X and Y at the same time, so that's kind of polyamory. Like the difference between actually having a bisexual or pan character or just having them available to both pc genders. There's a difference. 

 

I agree there is a difference. And Melkor my "Triads are great" comment was purely from my subjective position. However some people's polyamory (and I will include my own 90% of the time) is parallel separate relationships rather than one big love in, which is even more complicated because the other 2 need to be attracted to each other. 

I am happy with a situation where the PC characters LI's just respect or accept each other as both being in a relationship with the PC.

[Vapaa]

Why do you think it would take a lot more resources? The developers seem to agree with you on this one but I don't see how having a player being allowed to romance Leliana and Zevran at the same time for example, would require any more resources then having a whole bunch of dialogue about how they can't be with you because of the other.

 

I am also for Trans or Ace characters being written.

 

Because for this polyamory relation to have flesh, you would need extra banter between Leliana and Zevran about this particular relationship, as well as unique relationship moments featuring all three participants.

Otherwise it would be just romancing each at the same time without any of them talking about it, awkward.

[Andraste_Reborn]

As for Transsexual characters, I don't think that'd really fit with a medieval society's medical abilities.

 

Not having access to surgery doesn't magically stop people from being trans. There's already at least one trans character in Dragon Age that we know of: Maevaris Tilani from the comics. (And that's if you don't count Serendipity from DA2.)

 

 

 

Assuming "Ace" is referring to asexual characters, I'm pretty sure there have been several characters in Bioware's games with no interest in a relationship or no real sexuality.

 

Well, sure, but none of those people have explicitly said they were asexual AFAIK, and none of them have been romance options. I think that's what people are asking for in this thread.

 

 

 

But is it really that big of a deal? What would be the point of adding things for the sole sake of addition?

 

BioWare have talked about this a lot. What it boils down to is: people enjoy seeing themselves reflected in the games they play. BioWare enjoy making all kinds of customers happy ... and by extension, they enjoy money.

 

While the number of people who will stop buying a game on the basis of whether or not it has polyamory, asexuality or trans characters is probably tiny, there are certainly potential customers out there who might pick up a game just because it has one (or more) of those things, because it's so unusual for any of them to be addressed in a video game. Hopefully they would be happy and tell all their friends.

 

I know plenty of people who initially got interested in BIoWare games just because they were able to play a female character for a change, or because of the LGBT content. While most companies ignore this stuff, there are potential customers going begging.

[lothvamp]

Because for this polyamory relation to have flesh, you would need extra banter between Leliana and Zevran about this particular relationship, as well as unique relationship moments featuring all three participants.

Otherwise it would be just romancing each at the same time without any of them talking about it, awkward.

 

Right? Even if the relationships are parallel and separate, there would still need to be some acknowledgement and discussion. Which I would say warrants more than a simple line of dialogue or two. Otherwise the poly isn't so much included in the game as in your head. Like the bug mentioned above... that's more cheating on a character (or the system) that expects you to be monogamous and them not finding out, not an actual understanding and acceptance of an open relationship.

 

Then on the tech end there's the difference between flagging monogamous relationship with X, or poly relationship with X and Y, or mono with Y, are they at the same romance level, or what have you. I can see how that is more complicated than a single set of relationship flags for the proposed poly couple. Also more scenes for convos, dialogue, etc. Still, just because it might be difficult doesn't mean that it won't eventually make an appearance... at a juncture when it can be done in a tasteful, credible way.

 

Also, sidenote: As stated, I like variety in the character interactions. I loved that Aveline would turn you down no matter what. She just wasn't interested in Hawke. It also tickled me something fierce when people got mad at my PCs for flirting or trying to romance someone else. I like the complexities of interaction. The different personalities. The drama. Bioware is awesome at bringing characters to life, imo. I just want to see more diversity among them (and everywhere) ^___^

[Khavos]

Frankly, until they give representation to self-diagnosed Asperger's otherkin transgender individuals with headmates who are not enjoying the advantages of thin privilege, there shall be no equality.  

[Dermain]

Why do you think it would take a lot more resources? The developers seem to agree with you on this one but I don't see how having a player being allowed to romance Leliana and Zevran at the same time for example, would require any more resources then having a whole bunch of dialogue about how they can't be with you because of the other.

 

I am also for Trans or Ace characters being written.

 

If I remember correctly t's a scripting issue.

 

The code would have to keep track of romancing X character, Y character, and correctly mark Z setting so that all of the reactivity to being in a poly-amorous relationship stay consistent. It could  bug out so that it only recognizes you romancing X when you're doing both together and so on.

 

If it were to get involved with a pre-existing couple I do not see any coding issues, but that does not mean they would not exist.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Frankly, until they give representation to self-diagnosed Asperger's otherkin transgender individuals with headmates who are not enjoying the advantages of thin privilege, there shall be no equality.  

 

This person understands!

[RoboticWater]

If I remember correctly t's a scripting issue.

 

The code would have to keep track of romancing X character, Y character, and correctly mark Z setting so that all of the reactivity to being in a poly-amorous relationship stay consistent. It could  bug out so that it only recognizes you romancing X when you're doing both together and so on.

 

If it were to get involved with a pre-existing couple I do not see any coding issues, but that does not mean they would not exist.

 

I'd believe a lot things before I'd believe that the main obstacle between polyamory is the code. In fact, I can't imagine a worse excuse. Dealing with complex relationships is what computers do best. All the coders would have to is make a graph which adequately described everyone's relationship to each other. 

 

The biggest bottleneck I can see is the ridiculous amount of content (encounters, voice work, animation, etc.) that Bioware would have to make to sufficiently deal with the code's complexity. 

[movieguyabw]

I managed to have a poly relationship in one BioWare game - Hordes of the Underdark, specifically - because of a bug.

 

(It turns out that if your character is the true love of the Sleeping Man but also in a relationship with Valen, you don't have to break up with him as long as you don't say anything about it. And I damn well wasn't breaking up with the sexy Tiefling because some guy I'd never spoken to was apparently in love with me. So I got both epilogues, hooray!)

 

I would very much like to see a poly relationship that was, y'know, intentional. While it might not be ideal, I imagine it would be relatively simple to pull it off in a similar way to the bug - two separate partners that tolerate each other and don't force a confrontation.

 

Yeah, while I absolutely loved the Leliana bug, it always felt more like I was cheating on Morrigan, and less of an actual polyamorous relationship.  :\

 

I do agree with the OP, though, that there is probably a much less complicated option for including such an option in a future title.  In the case of Morrigan and Leliana, it could have worked if when you were confronted by the two of them, you had an option which asked them if they were open to polyamory.  If the two said 'yes', then rather than having party banter which signaled that the two were jealous, you received playful and flirty party banter between the two of them.

 

Also, if the "_is_in_polyrom" conditional is checked, then Morrigan may make a remark or two about Leliana when you talk to her in camp, or vice versa.

 

 

Either way, I'm really hopeful that Bioware will be able to include something like this at some point.  The possibilities of this, asexuality, and trans characters have me very excited for the future. 

[HellaciousHutch]

The selfish and ''evil'' type of character, that are in the whole thing for their own personal gain. We currently have a whole cast of characters that fight for the greater good, law, order and honor. 

 

Well...to be fair...Iron Bull is a mercenary, and mercenaries usually do stuff for money and personal gain. Though I guess we don't know enough about him yet to make the assumption that he's the same.

[CrimsonN7]

Eh, I don't care for this at all.

[iCooper]

What about the poly romance in Jade Empire? I hardly ever see that get mentioned. A male character can romance both Dawn Star and Silk Fox, and after he, er.... returns from an extended leave, he discovers that they befriended one another in his absence and are willing to share. Tada, poly romance?

[SafetyShattered]

Personally, I don't really care about this. I'm more from the traditional "If I love someone I love them and only them" kind of perspective. But sure, I guess if other people want it and Bioware can do it well go for it.

[Deflagratio]

Take a year or two of programming and understand why unraveling the mysteries of quantum uncertainty is easier than creating a poly-relationship.