207 réponses à ce sujet

[Genshie]

There is a bug in DA2 where you can romance Merrill and Isabela, if you think about the conversations with both of these characters including Hawke's banter with Isabela jokingly about Isabela being the only woman and she catching the hint/sarcasm it works and makes sense. Adding on Merrill's tight relationship with Isabela already. 

 

Anyway, I rather they focus on transgender/a-sexuals first since we have had them both in some form already. (Yeah I know Hawke and Sebastian don't really count since it is a religious thing)

[RedIntifada]

Right? Even if the relationships are parallel and separate, there would still need to be some acknowledgement and discussion. Which I would say warrants more than a simple line of dialogue or two. Otherwise the poly isn't so much included in the game as in your head. Like the bug mentioned above... that's more cheating on a character (or the system) that expects you to be monogamous and them not finding out, not an actual understanding and acceptance of an open relationship.

 

Sure there needs to be dialogue. But there also needs to be dialogue to express jealousy and demanding you "pick one"... 24 minutes of it can be seen here 

Zevran's views express that he is probably poly to some degree but his conversation choices close off a poly relationship for fear of hurting the other person. I don't see why the dialogue for poly relationships would need to be much more complicated then those relationships expressed in the video. Poly can have its drama's but it can also eliminate a lot of other dramas such as cheating.

[RedIntifada]

Right, I am not against including these kind of relationships in the game, but if you are curious why some people don't like them, I'll share my own view:

See I think that you limit yourself when you have more than one partner, because you only have a limited amount of things and time that you can give, and for every person that you care about, this next person here that you care about as well get's that much less. I like to go to extreme, and commit fully, to give all I can give, and get no less in return, and in that there can be only one. The person is only my possession as long as they let me own them, as I let them own me, but if there was no miscalculation, misunderstanding, then that should never end. 

 

 

That is certainly one view, and I respect it. Another is that just as having a second child doesn't mean you love the first any less, the same is true for relationships. In terms of time commitments, that is a barrier but you could make the same argument for people spending too much time at work or a hobby or with friends. Imagine if a LI was to say "My Inquisitor, I love you, but you are spending too much time on fetch quests. I am feeling greatly undervalued here." :-). 

[movieguyabw]

Well I liked the companions you've listed. Where are they now? I see none similar in Inquisition. I mean I could provide more different examples, could provide examples of chaotic evil people that were trust worthy companions, I could also think of tons of reasons for an evil person to be a part of inquisition. But that's not what's important really, what's important is, I have no evil party members in Inquisition and that sucks. 

 

Again, seeing as there really aren't any truly "evil" characters in Thedas at all, save for the Archdemon (and even that's debatable), I'm not really sure what you were hoping for.  0o  Everyone, from Loghain to the Architect have had rather altruistic motivations for the shady things they've done.  Even quite a few demons you come across in Origins claim to only want to experience life the way mortals do - aside from Connor and the demon in the Broken Circle quest.  Not really that evil of a motivation, if you ask me...

 

I don't think the addition of 'evil' characters in DA is really a priority - namely because it seems to go against the whole "everything is shades of grey" feel of the series.  In comparison, polyamory would fit the world much better - as it's apparent that Thedas has a rather sexually progressive culture already.  The addition of polyamory, if they are able to figure out how to make it work, would make sense.

[Ina]

Unlikely it would be something I'd pursue, but I'd love to see it in game regardless. If it's well done, I might even be convinced to play a character that's into poly relationships. I'm all for more choices and diversity, but Bioware's stance of "scripting for it is too hard" is not so encouraging.

[Samahl]

That is certainly one view, and I respect it. Another is that just as having a second child doesn't mean you love the first any less, the same is true for relationships. In terms of time commitments, that is a barrier but you could make the same argument for people spending too much time at work or a hobby or with friends. Imagine if a LI was to say "My Inquisitor, I love you, but you are spending too much time on fetch quests. I am feeling greatly undervalued here." :-). 

So much this.

 

There's also endings to consider as well. Different LIs will have different long-term expectations for your relationship.

[KainD]

Another is that just as having a second child doesn't mean you love the first any less, the same is true for relationships.

 

Ah but it does, well not one in particular, but you would love both less than you would love just one. It also means you give less to your husband/wife and are often forced to choose. Then again that's a foreign territory for me, I'm not one of the people that can love altruistically so having a child is something I would do. 

 

 

In terms of time commitments, that is a barrier but you could make the same argument for people spending too much time at work or a hobby or with friends. 

 

Of course, you can make that argument, but it all comes back to how much the relationship means to you. 

 

 

 Imagine if a LI was to say "My Inquisitor, I love you, but you are spending too much time on fetch quests. I am feeling greatly undervalued here." :-). 

 

Fair enough if quality time is something valued greatly by the person. 

 

 

Again, seeing as there really aren't any truly "evil" characters in Thedas at all, save for the Archdemon (and even that's debatable), I'm not really sure what you were hoping for.  0o  Everyone, from Loghain to the Architect have had rather altruistic motivations for the shady things they've done.  Even quite a few demons you come across in Origins claim to only want to experience life the way mortals do - aside from Connor and the demon in the Broken Circle quest.  Not really that evil of a motivation, if you ask me...

 

I don't think the addition of 'evil' characters in DA is really a priority - namely because it seems to go against the whole "everything is shades of grey" feel of the series.  In comparison, polyamory would fit the world much better - as it's apparent that Thedas has a rather sexually progressive culture already.  The addition of polyamory, if they are able to figure out how to make it work, would make sense.

 

What are you talking about? Evil characters always exist in any setting. If we did't have a main character in that role doesn't mean that they don't exist in Thedas. Demons actually are evil, because that's what evil is about - selfishness and getting what you want regardless of how it affects others, and that is what they do. 

 

When I say evil, I also say so just for people to understand what I am talking about, I don't believe in the concept of good and evil per se, but it's just something other people are familiar with, an umbrella term to describe some things. 

[Abraham_uk]

I'm glad this discussion exists.

Any discussions that enlighten us on topics that are clouded by ignorance are always encouraged by me.

[Myusha123]

ME1 could've done this I feel. 

Kaidan/Ashley and Liara confront you. You ask for poly relationship. They go sure. Check for Poly flag and gender, and tada. Little quips on the elevators. 

I especially liked the Isabela/Anders/Fenris ambient dialogue if you had a romance triad with them.

[Abraham_uk]

ME1 could've done this I feel. 

Kaidan/Ashley and Liara confront you. You ask for poly relationship. They go sure. Check for Poly flag and gender, and tada. Little quips on the elevators. 

I especially liked the Isabela/Anders/Fenris ambient dialogue if you had a romance triad with them.

 

In those games that wasn't so much polyamorous, that was more the player being indecisive.

 

In Dragon Age Inquisition you can decisively be in a relationship with more than one person.

[Samahl]

In Dragon Age Inquisition you can decisively be in a relationship with more than one person.

Where did you hear that? It's been stated that you can't pursue other romances once you're locked into one relationship.

[Abraham_uk]

Where did you hear that? It's been stated that you can't pursue other romances once you're locked into one relationship.

You're not really locked in any relationship at that point.

You're just chatting up people and being indecisive.

This is not the same as polyamory.

[Samahl]

You're not really locked in any relationship at that point.

You're just chatting up people and being indecisive.

This is not the same as polyamory.

 

I'm... referring to your quote above, where you said you can "decisively be in a relationship with more than one person" in Inquisition. BioWare's only ever discussed including polyamorous relationships, and they've made no indication of implementing it in DAI (rather, the opposite, as I said before).

[Abraham_uk]

I'm... referring to your quote above, where you said you can "decisively be in a relationship with more than one person" in Inquisition. BioWare's only ever discussed including polyamorous relationships, and they've made no indication of implementing it in DAI (rather, the opposite, as I said before).

Oh. Well I stand corrected then.

That would have been a pretty interesting feature.

[9TailsFox]

We can put mailbox in the game, and someone would want do it. -David Gaider.  All my tea from mouth left through the nose

Best quote.

[notouchy]

*sigh* just so you guys know, you're proving the homophobes right.

 

"Once we have gay marriage/relationships, what's to stop marriage/relationships with multiple partners! Blah, hate, hate, hate, blah."

                                                                                       ^

Not my opinion, I just don't like seeing people like that have any legitimate reason to say they were/are right.

 

I doubt polygamous relationships will be occurring in Dragon Age. Mostly because:

 

A. They'd be too easy to fall into. People have enough trouble falling into unintended romances(I'm looking at you, Anders!) Imagine someone who did not want to have multiple romances(but wanted to flirt to see the ensuing drama) suddenly find themselves in a relationship with both companions. Awkward. It would be a good learning experience for the player, though. You never know how open-minded a person you flirt with can be. Not open-minded enough, and sometimes, TOO open-minded.

 

B. Require far too much in the way of resources to meet the demand for such content. A one-off threesome is one thing, like with Isabela in DA:O, and again in DAII. But to make it a full-on relationship, you'll need a great deal of dialogue and additional cutscene work to make that kind of content good. And Bioware does have high standards for this kind of thing. If they can't make it good, they won't do it. They made that mistake with DAII, and look what happened.

 

C. It would be more difficult to provide for that situation in the epilogues, and latter in Dragon Age: Next. There's already so much in the Keep. We don't need to include a set of plot flags like that, making additional flags for each character and different dialogue when/if you meet them again.

 

I mean, put it all together, they might as well make another romance entirely. And in the end, I think that would please more fans than adding polygamous relationships would. Personal opinion there, with little to back it up in the way of facts. Come to think of it, you can say that about my entire post to this point. Regardless, it's where I stand.

 

Plus, from personal experience, I've seen polygamous relationships between people I know go up in smoke. Open relationships and even swinging I've seen succeed to some degree, but polyamory, not so much. They just never seem to end well for anybody. Normal relationships are hard enough to maintain as it is, with the feelings of two people to account for. Adding another person into the mix just increases the chance of the whole thing blowing up in everyone's faces. This something I have personally observed, not just conjecture.

 

So the devs have to create not just one but two NPCs who are not only ok with a polygamous relationship to start with, but don't subsequently develop issues with such an arrangement. This, I think, would be too hard to do with the kinds of complicated character Bioware creates. They would have to have two characters developed specifically for this kind of thing. And Bioware had already said that they create the character first, make them fascinating in their own right, before they determine their romance status, if any. Then they have to invest the resources for such an outcome to occur, and will have to provide for that play choice for as long as they import the previous decisions of the PC.

 

I don't see that happening.

[Maria Caliban]

*sigh* just so you guys know, you're proving the homophobes right.
 
"Once we have gay marriage/relationships, what's to stop marriage/relationships with multiple partners! Blah, hate, hate, hate, blah."

A man once accused me of wanting women to be in charge of men. My response was "Well duh."

If a woman ever becomes president, he'll be 'proven right' that feminists want women to rule. Is that a bad thing?

[notouchy]

A man once accused me of wanting women to be in charge of men. My response was "Well duh."

If a woman ever becomes president, he'll be 'proven right' that feminists want women to rule. Is that a bad thing?

 

I disagree. Your very opinion proves that his assertion is correct, at least in part. A woman president doesn't have to be elected to prove his point.

 

But when(yes, when, not if) a woman becomes president, it will be because society as a whole agrees with the notion that a woman can be the best presidential candidate of the available options. Not just feminists, but everyone. So a woman president being elected proves something far bigger than his own sexist statement.

 

But on topic, my point was that giving your political opponent ammunition with which to combat your agenda is a foolish mistake. If that's something you're ok with happening, and you'll fight the good fight anyway then power to you, I guess. Lord knows that that can certainly pay off. Just not as quickly as playing it safe.

 

It's not like video games ever really get mentioned in major news other than in the occasional "OMG, VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES ARE CORRUPTING OUR POOR, INNOCENT CHILDREN! RABBLE, RABBLE, RABBLE!" story anyway. So this whole 'bigger picture' political argument is academic.

[frylock23]

I disagree with the notion that falling accidentally into a polyamorous relationship would be a good learning experience. In most real world experiences, I don't flirt with people, and it's pretty easy to tell I'm not flirting. I also have way more than three convo options and none of them are flirting options. In a BioWare game, very often I only have three options, and usually the nice option winds up being the flirt option. So my choice is to flirt of be a d*****wagon in some way. So it is in no way a good reflection of a life lesson as I have never in my life accidentally gotten into any relationship, mono or poly.

[Abraham_uk]

How would a polyamorous relationship work in game?

How would the setup work?

 

Intriguing questions...

[Abraham_uk]

I disagree with the notion that falling accidentally into a polyamorous relationship would be a good learning experience. In most real world experiences, I don't flirt with people, and it's pretty easy to tell I'm not flirting. I also have way more than three convo options and none of them are flirting options. In a BioWare game, very often I only have three options, and usually the nice option winds up being the flirt option. So my choice is to flirt of be a d*****wagon in some way. So it is in no way a good reflection of a life lesson as I have never in my life accidentally gotten into any relationship, mono or poly.

 

Hawke: Well thats a nice staff Anders. I love the ornate design. Is this Tevinter?

Anders: Why yes it is. Thank you. I say Hawke, what is your view on the Mages versus Templar conflict?

Hawke: Whilst I agree there needs to be some control, I feel the Templars go too far, and I'm not even counting the extreme cases.

 

[Sometime later]

 

Anders: You and I have a good thing going. I was wondering if, well  [Anders gestures something]

Hawke: No.

Anders: What!?

Hawke: I like you it's just.

Anders: You like me. All is forgiven then. So about the...

 

[Some time later]

 

Anders: Hawke. You are amazing.

Hawke: 

[RedIntifada]

*sigh* just so you guys know, you're proving the homophobes right.

 

"Once we have gay marriage/relationships, what's to stop marriage/relationships with multiple partners! Blah, hate, hate, hate, blah."

                                                                                       ^

Not my opinion, I just don't like seeing people like that have any legitimate reason to say they were/are right.

.

 

Yeah, it is funny how after one group has been given their relationships recognized other people want their rights recognized too. I believe similar arguments were made in regard to giving women and non-whites the vote. If you give one the vote others will ask for it (that order depends on which country you are from).  

 

 

 

A. They'd be too easy to fall into. People have enough trouble falling into unintended romances(I'm looking at you, Anders!) Imagine someone who did not want to have multiple romances(but wanted to flirt to see the ensuing drama) suddenly find themselves in a relationship with both companions. Awkward. It would be a good learning experience for the player, though. You never know how open-minded a person you flirt with can be. Not open-minded enough, and sometimes, TOO open-minded.

 

 

Yeah, because heaven forbid someone may be annoyed that you are playing with their feelings. If you are wanting drama then playing with someones emotions is a good way to do it. The objections to Anders was generally homophobic nonsense from male players that didn't want to acknowledge homosexuals or are upset that homosexuals are attracted to them. If a man is attracted to you and you aren't interested in them, you turn them down... simple. Women do this all the time. Likewise saying that you have x relationship to prevent you from entering into y relationship is silly. It is like all the women in bars who feel forced to say "I have a boyfriend" in order to turn down a proposition. If a woman or man doesn't want to be with person x they shouldn't have to give another person as a reason... they may just not want to be with that person... or maybe they just don't want a relationship. 

 

 

Plus, from personal experience, I've seen polygamous relationships between people I know go up in smoke. Open relationships and even swinging I've seen succeed to some degree, but polyamory, not so much. They just never seem to end well for anybody. Normal relationships are hard enough to maintain as it is, with the feelings of two people to account for. Adding another person into the mix just increases the chance of the whole thing blowing up in everyone's faces. This something I have personally observed, not just conjecture.

 

The majority of relationships that break up are monogamous ones. But no one says when a monogamous couple breaks up that it was "because of monogamy" but they presume that if a poly person breaks up with their partner or partners that it must be because it was poly? In DA:O you can break up with characters and you can break up several times... one of the reasons why it occurs is because you are forced to choose one person over another. Knowing there are feelings you have for someone, which may represent an important part of you that you can't act on because you are with someone else leads to cheating and breaking up all the time in mono relationships. Most TV soap operas have this occur... because it is so common. I have seen poly relationships work and not work... I have seen mono relationships work and not work... It would be pretty rich for me to claim that it is inherent in either to succeed or fail when both occurs. 

 

 

[Heimdall]

The majority of relationships that break up are monogamous ones.

...Couldn't that be because the majority of relationships are monogamous?

[RedIntifada]

...Couldn't that be because the majority of relationships are monogamous?

 

Of course it is. And a lot of them end. My point is why is it that we don't say they ended because of monogamy even though quite often the reason they end is because one person decides they want to be with someone new? 

 

If a poly person breaks up... people always presume it is because of poly... even though it may just be because they drive the other person/s nuts (i.e. they end up doing annoying things like supporting the templars in DA2)

[cronshaw]

Ah but it does, well not one in particular, but you would love both less than you would love just one. It also means you give less to your husband/wife and are often forced to choose. Then again that's a foreign territory for me, I'm not one of the people that can love altruistically so having a child is something I would do. 

 

 

 

Love isn't some commodity that you only have in a limited amount.