23 réponses à ce sujet

[DarthLaxian]

Hey Bioware/Bioware-Forum,

 

So I finally got worked up enough to write a post on Blood-Magic, my favourite specialisation (next to the Arcane Warrior):

 

Why did you guys take it out?

 

You saying "We couldn't do it justice" sounds very vague indeed - I mean, yeah, you wanted people in the game to react to our specialisations (BTW: do people react to the ones you actually left in? - I mean I can't imagine people being to fond of Necromancers either...they are as bad, if not worse, than blood-mages in the eyes of the chantry and the common people I would say!)

 

Also, it robbed us of the opportunity to play a dark character with morals (kind of like in KOTOR, were you could use the darker side of the force while still being a paragon of good (or even a goody two shoes who wouldn't hurt a fly if he/she had the choice)

 

At the same time it's one more thing in the arsenal of our enemies we don't get to use (sorry, but I hate being the hero, killing fifty million bad guys without breaking a sweat, while they have superior skills, weapons etc.).

 

Is there any chance we might get it as a DLC (one that is not it's own story, but adds to the main story (meaning: people react to our blood-magic use...unless we are carefull, I mean in Thedas only few people can probably really distinguish between run of the mill normal magic and blood-magic (as long as the blood is used to fuel normal spells, because a fireball stays a fireball, even if blood powers it...), so only using it infront of chantry people (upper echelon chantry at that), templars, seekers and other mages should really make them take notice...)

 

So, your turn (a dev.-answer would be really nice )

 

greetings LAX

ps: Don't stone me for oppening a lot of topics, I am just now really getting into inquisition (and even with all the things I dislike, it does look like a mighty fine game allright )

[DrBlingzle]

Well actually necromancy is tolarted a lot more than blood-magic (necromancy is actually quiet respected in neverra).

Instead of having characters just ignore your use of blood-magic (like in previous games) Bioware wanted people to respond to it realisticly. Problem is blood-magic is a huge thing and there would be loads of reactions to it, so they decided to just not have it. I personally would of happily waited for them to deveop all of these reactions even if it put the game on delay, but I can see where they're coming from and I know some other people woul'nt really want the game delayed hust for blood-magic.

 

Anyway we can always hope it can be included in the next game.

[KainD]

Watch Lady insanity interview with Gaider, he says why quote in depth.

[Dubya75]

OP, you can't be "robbed" of something that isn't yours to begin with.

So Bioware decided to not include blood magic as a specialization. It was their choice to make (it is after all THEIR game).

They did explain why they made the choice, not that they even need to explain themselves at all.

 

People want the moon on a stick sometimes....

[DrBlingzle]

People want the moon on a stick sometimes....

 

Yes please.

[DarthLaxian]

Yes please.

 

Yeah, might make for a fine decoration (just need to put some light there, that it can reflect (like it does the sun)...)

 

greetings LAX

ps: Yes, their game - but making "their game" so that we players like it is good for them (not just for us - after all word of mouth propaganda really helps with sales as do satisfied customers not flaming and making flame-videos on YT ^^)

[Dubya75]

Yeah, might make for a fine decoration (just need to put some light there, that it can reflect (like it does the sun)...)

 

greetings LAX

ps: Yes, their game - but making "their game" so that we players like it is good for them (not just for us - after all word of mouth propaganda really helps with sales as do satisfied customers not flaming and making flame-videos on YT ^^)

 

The Dragon Age community is of such nature that it really does not matter what Bioware comes up with  - even with what is shaping up to be the undisputed king of all Dragon Age games - they will always find something to cry about.

Somehow people expect it to be the all-encompassing, almighty game of games made by the Gods themselves. Just not going to happen.

There are a million demands floating around of things that should be included in the game, making it 100% impossible for Bioware to please all.

This is why I am siding with them on this issue. 

They are already bending backwards to give fans the game they want. More than any other games company out there.

[Icy Magebane]

Blood magic was great, but without the excuse of "I'm a grey warden, don't worry so much," normal people... or anyone really... tolerating it is way beyond realistic given how prejudiced the people of Thedas are against the school.  I mean, you regularly hear people saying that blood mages are put to death, no questions asked, so it's jarring when you constantly see the PC and his/her minions getting a free pass.  Maybe by the time the 4th game rolls around they'll have figured out a way to put it back in, but it's kind of unrealistic to expect the governments of Thedas to work with a blood mage.

 

If we get a game set in Tevinter, I guarantee that blood magic will return as a spec (this is not a guarantee).

[HellaciousHutch]

Necromancers >>>>>> Blood Mages (or any mages, for that matter). 

[DaySeeker]

They've said the were not able to show the repercussions of blood magic.  It was hinted at in DA2, Merrill's clan was being attacked by animals that used to leave them be, there were more undead in the area, the clan was destroyed.  It's not just a power source or the reaction of people who see you doing it.  It effects the state of your character, your party and the world.  Given its treatment in previous games it seemed not too unlike other schools of magic, and therefore of no real consequence, that it was anathema made no sense.  Blood magic is more serious than they were able to show.

 

Also, Lax, you continue to start topics that have pages and pages of pages already written.  Try doing a search.

[DarthLaxian]

The Dragon Age community is of such nature that it really does not matter what Bioware comes up with  - even with what is shaping up to be the undisputed king of all Dragon Age games - they will always find something to cry about.

Somehow people expect it to be the all-encompassing, almighty game of games made by the Gods themselves. Just not going to happen.

There are a million demands floating around of things that should be included in the game, making it 100% impossible for Bioware to please all.

This is why I am siding with them on this issue. 

They are already bending backwards to give fans the game they want. More than any other games company out there.

 

What - they don't bend over backwards (with the exception of Cullen, maybe) on the contrary:

 

ME3 ending (enough said I think...even the company that made Fallout 3 did eventually really change their ending and added BROKEN STEEL to FO3...we got "explanatory scenes" (like we are stupid monkeys that just didn't understand their master piece (yes: different team, but still same company!))

 

Same for DA2 - it was not well made and there was no real fixing done (companies like CD-Project-Red ("The Witcher") give away an "Enhanced Edition"-Upgrade for free, while they don't even try...but they continue to sell DLC (note: I liked all the ones for DAO and DA2 (except for visual changes like outfits for characters), but that is no real excuse)...

 

So no, they don't bend over backwards - they might be open to fan ideas somewhat, but they are not in the habit of performing fan service (Cullen might have even been planed from the begining (as an Advisor)...it just sounds like fan service because so many people like him)

 

greetings LAX

[DarthLaxian]

They've said the were not able to show the repercussions of blood magic.  It was hinted at in DA2, Merrill's clan was being attacked by animals that used to leave them be, there were more undead in the area, the clan was destroyed.  It's not just a power source or the reaction of people who see you doing it.  It effects the state of your character, your party and the world.  Given its treatment in previous games it seemed not too unlike other schools of magic, and therefore of no real consequence, that it was anathema made no sense.  Blood magic is more serious than they were able to show.

 

Also, Lax, you continue to start topics that have pages and pages of pages already written.  Try doing a search.

 

I do a search - everytime I start a topic, I use the search function first (and only after looking at the first two pages of results, I start a topic, if I don't find anything really fitting)

 

As for the Undead:

 

That was the remains of ancient dreamer elfs (Merril says that, too (have been watching the Merril-Romance on YT just yesterday, so I remember clearly...she says something along the lines of: "They don't rest easy anymore!")

 

As for the Varteral:

 

I didn't attack Merril, but the hunters who had NOTHING to do with her using BM...so no, if you don't summon demons, breach the fade (like if you have Jowan use Isolde's blood to save Connor) and use mind-control, it is just another (very potent) powersource (yes, it's different power from normal magic, but it can be shaped the same way and a fireball remains a fireball, no matter what produces the power to create and propell it towards enemies. Yes, blood-magic-power might be able to be used in other ways - as said: mind-control,  tearing the fade and summoning demons, but that does not have to happen. It's the caster who decides how he uses the power it grants him or her!)

 

greetings LAX

ps: and no, Merril didn't spook the clan's hala either -.-

pps: It's a stupid argument - I mean if blood-magic somehow taints a character (curses them somehow), than aren't people making phylacteries and helping (preparing the mixture of blood and other stuff) with the joining cursed, too...wouldn't all Grey Wardens who drink the product of this curse be cursed additionally to being tainted? - Sorry, but you are making no sense and David Gaider even said that BM was not inherently evil in a recent interview with LadyInsanity on YT...he said only that it is a different kind of power to normal mana and that it has more uses than the former (mind-control for example))

[KainD]

Necromancers >>>>>> Blood Mages (or any mages, for that matter). 

 

No, because blood mages have more resources for any magic, including necromancy. 

[Ferico21]

I heard a recent interview with David Gaider in which it was actually covered, and why they didn't include it.

In summary: It's because blood magic is too complicated to be put simply as a class specialization. It'd have to be a entirely new class because of all the politics surrounding it and the different manners of use.

 

Interview here: 

[Icy Magebane]

@ DarthLaxian - It doesn't matter what the caster plans to do with the power, blood magic is illegal and it breaks lore to be handwaved by everyone, including Templars and high ranking Chantry, just because the player is using it...  The debate isn't whether blood magic is right or wrong, it's whether or not it could be included as a PC spec while remaining true to the lore, which they seem to have decided wouldn't be the case.

 

If Thedas goes through a massive cultural shift or if the game takes place in a place where Blood Magic is halfheartedly shunned and not necessarily illegal (Tevinter), then it makes sense for the PC to use it with impunity.

[KainD]

If Thedas goes through a massive cultural shift or if the game takes place in a place where Blood Magic is halfheartedly shunned and not necessarily illegal (Tevinter), then it makes sense for the PC to use it with impunity.

 

Or they can make a game in which we are a blood mage that fights templars and the chantry. 

[Icy Magebane]

@ KainD - So they just drop character creation, branching storylines, and dialogue choices entirely and base a whole game around that idea?  I don't see that happening but I guess it's not impossible...

[KainD]

@ KainD - So they just drop character creation, branching storylines, and dialogue choices entirely and base a whole game around that idea?  I don't see that happening but I guess it's not impossible...

 

No, no. You just play as a blood mage that wants to wipe out the chantry and establish another mage empire. You have a blood mage organisation and many quests and you have the freedom to do in different ways that you like, and you can also have a branching storyline. as long as the end result is wiping out the chantry. like the end result of origins is stopping the blight. 

[Icy Magebane]

No, no. You just play as a blood mage that wants to wipe out the chantry and establish another mage empire. You have a blood mage organisation and many quests and you have the freedom to do in different ways that you like, and you can also have a branching storyline. as long as the end result is wiping out the chantry. like the end result of origins is stopping the blight. 

Tbh, I'd probably play that...

[sunnydxmen]

Or they can make a game in which we are a blood mage that fights templars and the chantry. 

 

that will wont happen sence there will be no warrior or rogue class in every dragon age game has had those classes.

[DarthLaxian]

@ DarthLaxian - It doesn't matter what the caster plans to do with the power, blood magic is illegal and it breaks lore to be handwaved by everyone, including Templars and high ranking Chantry, just because the player is using it...  The debate isn't whether blood magic is right or wrong, it's whether or not it could be included as a PC spec while remaining true to the lore, which they seem to have decided wouldn't be the case.

 

If Thedas goes through a massive cultural shift or if the game takes place in a place where Blood Magic is halfheartedly shunned and not necessarily illegal (Tevinter), then it makes sense for the PC to use it with impunity.

 

GOD - It does not break the lore -.- (and not anybody can identify blood-magic, too - templars can, mages can and maybe high ranking nobles and chantry people...the rest? - no)

 

As for the player using it:

 

The player is outside the law (the Wardens are and they are alowed blood-magic (see Avernus!) as is the champion (it was known that Hawke was a mage, but he was to popular to arrest!) and the Inquisitor surely is outside normal laws (otherwise they could not do things like just kill mages and templars, go after Tevinter magisters (the Redcliff demo!) etc.) so no, it doesn't even break the law here (!)

 

greetings LAX

ps: no, I am not grasping for straws - for the Warden it has been stated that they use blood-magic (and no one goes after them for it)...hell even the chantry does (Phylacteries are blood-magic!) and Hawke could have been arrested for being a mage, but never was!)

[Magdalena11]

I've got no problem at all delaying gratification if it means when blood magic is available, it will be well integrated into the game.  Blood magic is tough to work in, though.  Remember how the Wynne/Irving fight and all the dialogue for a PC blood mage was patched out?  Better to leave it out than in and gutted.

[Dr_Vile]

The player is outside the law (the Wardens are and they are alowed blood-magic (see Avernus!) as is the champion (it was known that Hawke was a mage, but he was to popular to arrest!) and the Inquisitor surely is outside normal laws (otherwise they could not do things like just kill mages and templars, go after Tevinter magisters (the Redcliff demo!) etc.) so no, it doesn't even break the law here (!)

 

 In DA:O and DA2, people didn't really react to your specializations - sure there was a little bit in Awakening and with Merrill, but by and large it went completely unremarked upon. In DA:I, however, the dev team wanted people to react to your specialization class in ways that stayed true to the lore and continuity. Blood Magic, by its very nature, alters the way the world would perceive you in such a fundamental way that it would have dominated the other specs, and a whole lot of content would have been shut off if you didn't choose it as your spec. As David Gaider explains in the interview that Ferico posted, in order to really do it justice, Blood Magic would have needed to be an entirely different class to the regular Mage, and that's not something they could put resources into at this time.

 

 The Inquisition's operating in a sort of grey area at present: what with the massive Veil tears, an Elven Rebellion in the Dales, Civil War in Orlais and all-out war between the Templars and the Mages; the regular armies of Thedas are pretty much fully occupied with keeping a lid on things. The Inquisition can operate because they've proven that they can take care of the Veil tears, and even that's only after they've established themselves (remember, much of the game's mechanics are building up a power base and forming alliances to increase the Inquisition's influence in Thedas) - at the start of the game they're just another small faction vying for control. If the leader of the Inquisition was a Blood Mage, I doubt they'd get that far, that easily.

 

 Let's just think this through in-universe:

Spoiler

 You're the head of the Templars, or the newly-elected Divine. The Veil gets torn all over Thedas, spewing demons and other unimaginable horrors out into the world - your armies are ill-equipped to deal with the threat, or are otherwise occupied at the time, and all hope seems lost. Then from out of the blue, a new organization pops up wearing the symbol of a long-defunct order - an organisation that is able to combat these horrors, led by a Mage who (it is said) walked out of the Fade and is able to close the Veil tears. It all seems too good to be true: you can give them a bit of support, and they'll deal with the Veil situation, leaving you free to try to put the world back together.

 

 And then you hear rumors - little things at first: the Inquisitior has vast magical power, the Inquisitor can paralyze their enemies with a wave of their hand, the Inquisitor can control people's minds! And then you realise what the Inquisitor is: a Blood Mage, a Maleficar. And suddenly everything makes sense - of course it was too good to be true! A saviour come from the Fade to heal the world? Rubbish! It's obvious, isn't it? This Maleficar is the only one who can who can close the Tears in the Veil because they're the one responsible for tearing the Veil in the first place! How could you have been so blind? And you've just let them create a massive power base in the world through your own inattention: you have failed the god whom you swore to serve by allowing this Maleficar to break one of the most fundamental tenets of your Faith: "Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him."

 

 Well you can put a stop to that right now, by any means necessary. So you determine to call another peace conference: you invite the other factions and representatives of the various Princes of Thedas to a neutral location and reveal your knowledge of the Maleficar. Everyone's horrified: they've all been tricked by this insidious individual - many wonder if they were secretly ensorcelled by the Inquisitor to gain their co-operation. Together, they put aside their differences and determine what must be done: they call an Exalted March against the Inquisition.

 

 So now the Inquisition is being harried from all sides by foes that have united in the face of a common enemy, and they begin to lose ground. They are pushed back, and back, and back all the way to Skyhold, where they make their last stand. The Fortress is impressive - constructed with gold and resources that you foolishly gave the Inquisition - but eventually its walls are breached, and your soldiers swarm in. The Maleficar makes a last stand in their throne room, and tries to turn their foul magic against you - but to no avail. The Mages you have brought with you recite from the Litany of Adralla to cancel out their power, whilst the Templars close in and put an end to their evil.

 

 Not to mention I doubt Cassandra, Cullen and Vivienne would be quite so willing to follow a Blood Mage, so you might very well lose them (and others) as you progress through the game - and I doubt the Templars would be willing to accept your support in the war, so you'd probably be restricted to siding with the Mages.

 

TL:DR - A Blood Magic specialization alters too much about the world, and would overshadow the other Mage specs in terms of unique content.