17 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

In DA2, Justice claims that it is unjust to keep mages in the Circle for what they are.

However, in DAA, he is for killing the Architect simply for what he is "All of these creatures are irredeemable fiends".

[DrBlingzle]

First of all you might want to change your title to "Justice is a hypocrite" (sorry for being a grammar Nazi).

 

Second of all he kind of changed in-between DAA and DA2 after he became vengeance so he wasn't really the same "person"

[MisterJB]

First of all you might want to change your title to "Justice is a hypocrite" (sorry for being a grammar Nazi).

Thank you for the correction. Unfortunately, I don't believe we're given the option to alter titles.

 

Second of all he kind of changed in-between DAA and DA2 after he became vengeance so he wasn't really the same "person"

Perhaps but he was already calling Templars "opressors" in DAA and inciting Anders to free mages.

 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Ya don't say.

 

 

Gotta laugh at him righteously calling the Architect and Darkspawn "creatures." Bro, you are a walking cadaver.

[DrBlingzle]

Thank you for the correction. Unfortunately, I don't believe we're given the option to alter titles.

I think I've seen other people do it but I have never actually found out how to do it.

 

Perhaps but he was already calling Templars "opressors" in DAA and inciting Anders to free mages.

True, so yeah, I suppose he is a hypocrite.

[Kantr]

you edit your post is how it works

[Ophir147]

The Justice in Awakening was inhabiting Kristoff's body. 

 

Kristoff = A Grey Warden with a natural bias against the Darkspawn.

 

The Justice in DA2 was inhabiting Anders' body.

 

Anders = An Apostate mage who has been running from the Circles all of his life, growing to resent the Templars for the life he was forced to live on the run.

 

Justice in Kristoff's body said that he has access to all of Kristoff's memories, with all of the biases and attachments that comes with.

 

Justice in Anders' body can hardly be called Justice anymore, because Anders' hate perverted him into something much more sinister.

 

I don't see how that makes him a hypocrite. His views were changed by his host.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Not really. He says that because he believes darkspawn are inherently evil. Mages are not. That's his stance throughout the first game.

 

Although if you are comparing DA 2 Justice to DAOA Justice then of course he's a hypocrite. He's been radically changed by fusing with Anders and now has an almost exclusively mage-centric world view.

[ShadowLordXII]

Hence why he became Vengeance when he joined with Anders.

[TEWR]

In DA2, Justice claims that it is unjust to keep mages in the Circle for what they are.

However, in DAA, he is for killing the Architect simply for what he is "All of these creatures are irredeemable fiends".

 

The prevailing sentiment is that Darkspawn are inherently evil and it's not strictly limited to him (and as was pointed out might not even be due entirely to himself, given he was in a corpse). But beyond that, you can't really compare DAII Justice to DAOA Justice. They're different, extraordinarily so, yet at the same time very much the same.

 

Complicated it is.

 

I don't know if I'd call him a hypocrite though, if only because of the nature of spirits of the Fade. Muddies the waters a bit.

[dragonflight288]

The whole scenario with Justice, a spirit becoming a demon as it were, has made me consider if it's possible if the reverse is true, a demon becoming a spirit or something. It would take some very extraordinary circumstances to turn a spirit of desire into a spirit of love or something like that, or Pride to become Faith, or something, but if such a thing were to happen, would the spirit become a hypocrite or a liar if their very essence of being shifted or changed for some reason or another? Or are they bound by their nature?

 

Food for thought. 

[KaiserShep]

Justice was always a little off. I mean, he thinks keeping a pet is slavery. He's like super PETA from the great beyond.

[Ryzaki]

Justice was always a little off. I mean, he thinks keeping a pet is slavery. He's like super PETA from the great beyond.

 

lol thx for reminding me of that hilarious conversation.

 

If anyone's the slave when it comes to pet's it's the owner (well assuming the owner isn't a douchemobile).

[Magdalena11]

I don't know about this one.  Justice just doesn't get the whole thing where one life force is more valuable intrinsically than another.  If you look at where he's coming from, you can see why he'd be confused.  Especially with anyone who has a beloved pet, the confusion between people/not people gets a bit fuzzy.  I'm inclined to give him a pass on this.  While keeping my dear kitty confined means she is technically enslaved, she seems to find it agreeable and who am I to tell her she's mistaken?  Rest assured she''s perfectly capable of expressing her dissatisfaction.  Trust me.

[TheMadHarridan]

If anyone's the slave when it comes to pet's it's the owner (well assuming the owner isn't a douchemobile).

 

Definitely. I have three cats, and I am most definitely their slave, no matter how much I may try to deny it. I'll do anything for my babies.

 

I can't recall the conversation with Justice saying keeping a pet is slavery. How does it go?

[Ophir147]

Definitely. I have three cats, and I am most definitely their slave, no matter how much I may try to deny it. I'll do anything for my babies.

 

I can't recall the conversation with Justice saying keeping a pet is slavery. How does it go?

 

Justice: I see that your feline companion remains with you.

Anders: He seems happy enough. Isn't that right, Ser Pounce-a-lot?

Ser Pounce-a-lot: (Meow!)

Justice: To enslave another creature does not seem just.

Anders: He's not a slave! He's a friend. And he's also a cat.

Justice: A cat that lacks freedom.

Anders: Just ignore him, Ser Pounce-a-lot. They don't have pets in the Fade, apparently.

Ser Pounce-a-lot: (Meow!)

 

Lovely conversation. Really highlights Justice's fish-out-of-water situation.

[Gallimatia]

As a Spirit of Justice it's not about only punishing people for their actions. It's about only punishing people for being things that are bad. Mages are awesome so you can't punish people for being mages. Templar sympathizers are horrible so even if Ella hasn't actively oppressed mages you can of course kill her for thinking like she does.

 

Your narrowminded human vessel may not understand but regardless darkspawn rank above Ella and below demons on the scale of things to be killed for what they are.

[Darkly Tranquil]

I get the impression that there are 2 things going on with Justice. First, he represents an abstract notion of justice, which as any sensible person knows, cannot exist in the real world with all the competing and contradicting individual interests, needs, and morals. Because of this, he approaches all situations from his black-and-white conceptual view of justice without regard to the practical possibility of achieving those outcomes; coming from a realm where thought and ideas shape reality, he is simply unable to understand how to deal with a reality where ideas and will alone cannot change outcomes. His presence in the physical world and his inability to interact with it effectively is an interesting metaphor for the eternal problem of trying to apply abstract values to real world situations.

 

Second, he has become hopelessly muddled by his melding with Anders and probably has no way to process and contextualise all the emotions, ideas, and prejudices contained within Anders own psyche which must influence his own understanding of the world he is interacting with. Because he cannot understand these things he his thinking/feeling, and because he is in a world with a logic he cannot comprehend, he behaves increasingly erratically over time. So its not just Anders going crazy over time, Justice is going crazy too. Spirits do not belong in the physical world any more than mortals belong in the Fade.