79 réponses à ce sujet

[Ynqve]

It is interesting and rather ironic to see the double standard at work here. A man can show off his chest and that is perfectly fine but when a woman does it, it is heretical, politically incorrect, objectification, practical concerns, etc. 

 

Talk about selective equality. When it suits you, it is equal. When its not, its fine to have impracticality and objectification. 

 

First off, both men and women get objectified. The same applies to video game male and female characters. It just so happens that most men who get objectified have the common sense to not take it seriously while women stir up a racket. 

 

Practically speaking, I don't think that outfit should even count as an armor. No good armor exposes the heart and chest of the wearer. So if Varric needs to wear it, he can wear it while he is in Skyhold or just visiting places and not expecting combat. 

 

Maybe if Varric is a mage he can cover himself in magical armor like Rock Armor or Arcane Barrier but he is a dwarf. 

 

As for the claims that this suits his roguish character and his class as a rogue, then why Sera and Cole have no cleavage exposing armor ? Both of them are rogues after all. Sera is carefree and is all about the 'right now' so exposed armor would make sense, no ? Why have we not seen any cleavage exposing armor for the Inquisitor ? Inquisitors can be rogues. 

 

What about characters like Josephine ? She is a diplomatic adviser after all and she should not have to worry about armors. Yet she is all covered up nicely. 

 

I sincerely hope that either one of two things happen. 

 

1) Varric has an alternative armor design that the player can choose to use. 

 

2) We have some cleavage and / or midriff exposing armors and/or outfits options for Inquisitors, for the companions and the advisers.

 

Because it just seems hypocritical on epic scale not to have them in game.   

 

I think  the general rule should be "does it fit the character?". In Varric's case, yes it does. The same could be said for Isabela, her design is perfect for her. Now, if Cassandra or Aveline were running around in a chainmail bikini however, I would seriously question the sanity of the art department. And there's no hypocrisy in lamenting over bad character design while also appreciating the hotness of Varric's chesthair. 

[KingoftheZempk]

Regarding the double standard with men and women: Men (generally) don't lactate. They don't breastfeed. Women (historically) do breastfeed the offspring. Obviously this is not in all cultures but in the western breasts are seen as sexual objects, probably stemming from the reproduction aspect of breastfeeding. Men don't need nipples. Women do (if they breastfeed children).

[greywatch]

Except that breasts have nothing to do with reproduction. 

 

And in the 1930's, men's nipples were the same as women's, in that it was beyond inappropriate to see them. Men decided to go shirtless anyway, and within a few years it was normal like it is today. 

 

There is nothing inherently sexual about women's breasts. They've just been fetishized.

[Lady Nuggins]

First off, both men and women get objectified. The same applies to video game male and female characters. It just so happens that most men who get objectified have the common sense to not take it seriously while women stir up a racket. 

 

I find it amazing that there are people who believe this.  What objectification of men do you think happens?  Do you think this is actually an example of Varric being objectified?  Do you think Varric lacks agency?  That his outfit is not something he would dress himself in?  That it was created only for titillation and serves no other purpose in terms of characterization or storytelling?

 

Sexy outfits are fine.  Cleavage is fine.  The reason you think women are always complaining about cleavage in video games is because it is usually shoved into the game with no thought for the setting or the character.  When you put a female character in heels and a chainmail bikini when nothing about her character or setting would remotely drive her to do so of her own agency, then that is blatant objectification.  It says "I care more about seeing her boobs than I do about her character."

 

And again, since you seem to have skipped over the posts above yours: Varric's outfit isn't even necessarily sexual at all, so your entire point is moot.  When a breastfeeding woman is told to cover up while a man can walk down the street shirtless, it is obviously not considered equally sexual.

 

Come back when we see the likes of this done to a male character.

 

[Who Knows]

I think  the general rule should be "does it fit the character?". In Varric's case, yes it does. The same could be said for Isabela, her design is perfect for her. Now, if Cassandra or Aveline were running around in a chainmail bikini however, I would seriously question the sanity of the art department. And there's no hypocrisy in lamenting over bad character design while also appreciating the hotness of Varric's chesthair. 

That's a good point.

Miranda is the practical, logical character, so why dress her up in a skintight suit with high heels? At no point does she ever try to seduce anyone, either.

[Ynqve]

That's a good point.

Miranda is the practical, logical character, so why dress her up in a skintight suit with high heels? At no point does she ever try to seduce anyone, either.

 

Not to mention Ashley in ME3, what happened to the practical marine we knew in ME1? Or EDI as a sexbot...

[Lady Nuggins]

I also don't know how any of you could have forgotten about Morrigan's magnificent cleavage.

 

[frylock23]

I wouldn't say that a man walking around without his shirt isn't sexual. I for one find it quite sexual. And think about it honestly, it's not like men just walk around everywhere without their shirts. In fact, almost everywhere you go the sign says "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" and it applies to men, too.

[Bugsie]

I wouldn't say that a man walking around without his shirt isn't sexual. I for one find it quite sexual. And think about it honestly, it's not like men just walk around everywhere without their shirts. In fact, almost everywhere you go the sign says "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" and it applies to men, too.

depends where you live. Country and location have a lot to do with that. I live in Australia, men only go topless here at the beach and even then sun damage and skin cancer are on a lot of people's minds so even there, aside from evenings and when swimming, you'll be guaranteed to find a lot of people covered up. I remember travelling to the UK and Europe and it felt to me that at the tiniest bit of sun people were stripping off right left and centre. I'll never forget the guy I saw in the middle of London during a particular sunny day in the park. He arrived in a business suit, stripped off to his undies and sun baked for about 20 minutes, put his suit back on and left! Australians in general, I feel are a little more reserved about nudity than their western counterparts in Uk and Europe that I've been (but it's not a touch on America IMO)

Also, as someone who has breast fed and done so in public I've been very self conscious of the supposed 'sexual nature' of what I'm doing (according to some) and covered myself less I 'offend' some twit who can't tell the difference between breast functionality and getting my ta tas out for their personal jollies.

Thanks Lady Nuggins and others who've addressed that 'common sense' statement. Seriously shaking my head at that one.

[Ashira Shepard]

It is interesting and rather ironic to see the double standard at work here. A man can show off his chest and that is perfectly fine but when a woman does it, it is heretical, politically incorrect, objectification, practical concerns, etc. 

 

Talk about selective equality. When it suits you, it is equal. When its not, its fine to have impracticality and objectification. 

 

First off, both men and women get objectified. The same applies to video game male and female characters. It just so happens that most men who get objectified have the common sense to not take it seriously while women stir up a racket. 

 

Well, son, you may want to sit down for this...

 

But men typically being presented as super masculine, large, buff, grizzly, indomitable power houses is idealization.

 

Now there is something insidiously harmful in lifting hyper masculinity onto a pedestal, but it is not the same as objectification.

 

Male hero characters are supposed to be someone the player, presumably male, wants to be. And these male characters can have a wide variety of appearances, from old to young, grizzled to unmarked, etc. They can have all sorts of varied personalities too.

 

Female characters on the other hand are typically attractive and youthful, unless they're villains in which they are either gross and old or be even more sexualized. They have to look conventionally attractive and have a pleasing personality unless they're a villain, which again can be a coin toss at best, depending on how she's treated by the narrative.

 

Female characters are typically are objectified, they're supposed to be things that the presumably male player wants to have.

 

Please keep in mind that idealization and objectification are not the same and that even if there is male objectification going on, it's not even in the general postcode of female objectification. Since male objectification doesn't, oh, I don't know, reinforce something that is incredibly harmful and ingrained in our society?

 

Do I need to go on a tangent about the vast slew of sexual harassment women face in many, many, many aspects of life or ? I mean hell, just take a passing glance at sexual harassment of women in the gaming community alone. Men and women are not treated the same and if you do not see that, I have to ask how the food on neptune is?

 

Point being, one male character in this game being vaguely objectified is not going to hurt you.There are literally hundreds of other games with absolutely insulting depictions of women that will please your fragile tastes.

[BadgerladDK]

 

• Varric: Rivaini, stop looking at my chest. My eyes are up here.
• Isabela: But the chest hair...
• Varric: Do you know how much I suffer under your gaze? I am a person, not an object!
• Isabela: Uh, Varric?
• Varric: (Laughs) Just shitting you.

 

Please tell me you made that up, otherwise I shall be really annoyed that my general dislike of the walking lockpick that is the rogue class means I've never had two of them in the party to experience that conversation.

[Lady Nuggins]

I wouldn't say that a man walking around without his shirt isn't sexual. I for one find it quite sexual. And think about it honestly, it's not like men just walk around everywhere without their shirts. In fact, almost everywhere you go the sign says "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" and it applies to men, too.

 

By that reasoning, bare feet are super sexy.  All those elves walking around, exposing themselves...

[Ashira Shepard]

I wouldn't say that a man walking around without his shirt isn't sexual. I for one find it quite sexual. And think about it honestly, it's not like men just walk around everywhere without their shirts. In fact, almost everywhere you go the sign says "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" and it applies to men, too.

 

Have you deigned to pay attention to what men do during summer when it's as hot as satan's steaming balls outside?

 

Because dudes around here definitely start walking around shirtless when it's hot enough and I live in Scotland, it doesn't take much, the sun just needs to lean out for a minimum of ten minutes before we start melting and everyone throws on their summer clothes for the annual one day of sunshine.

[The Hierophant]

Come back when we see the likes of this done to a male character.

Been happened. Solid Snake?

Might as well include Raiden (MGS2) and Vamp (constant shots of him licking and fondling his combat knife while it's sheathe is placed on his crotch). Might as well just say the bulk of MGS.

Heck in a lot of Japanese games the protags are also designed to capture the female gaze.

[Obvakhi]

That's a good point.

Miranda is the practical, logical character, so why dress her up in a skintight suit with high heels? At no point does she ever try to seduce anyone, either.

What are you talking about? The sex appeal is also very much part of her character. She knows she has a good body and is not afraid to flaunt it.

[SardaukarElite]

It is interesting and rather ironic to see the double standard at work here. A man can show off his chest and that is perfectly fine but when a woman does it, it is heretical, politically incorrect, objectification, practical concerns, etc. 

 

Could you kindly point out the open shirted female character present in Dragon Age: Inquisition that everyone is complaining about? Otherwise you seem to be suggesting that one slightly sexualised male balances out all of the sexualised women across the whole of gaming.

 

Of the main cast shown (the party and advisers) two of the seven men could be argued to be sexualised (Varric and Iron Bull). If a game featured two sexualised women in a group of seven - and those women were showing off their powerful, muscled torsos while still wearing practical footwear - I don't think there would be many complaints.

[Wulfram]

Please tell me you made that up, otherwise I shall be really annoyed that my general dislike of the walking lockpick that is the rogue class means I've never had two of them in the party to experience that conversation.

Sorry, it's from the game

[The Hierophant]

Still idealization. I wish I had such a rock hard, grabbable ass as Solid Snake's.

So no fanservice is involved Puddi...

?

[The Hierophant]

Spoiler

Hmm? Whatever you say Puddikoma.

[The Hierophant]

/sigh both comments were sarcasm, get a new detector pls.

Can't afford a replacement now. So deal with it.

[Vapaa]

I hope you're being sarcastic.

 

I'm actually dead serious.