81 réponses à ce sujet

[TheButterflyEffect]

Really? He hates/dislikes women?

 

He screwed up my awesome ending. So I got a failure ending. asdfghjkl.

[The Elder King]

He screwed up my awesome ending. So I got a failure ending. asdfghjkl.

Ah, he sacrificed instead of you? Yes, loving your character so much that he prefers to die in her place obviously means he's a mysoginist.
It's fine to dislike/hate Alistair for that scene, but he didn't shown any sign of hating women.

[Feybrad]

A little Linearity often helps the Story of Games - BioWare has done this very right in their Works, especially in DA:O. They allowed for massive Branching while still retaining Connection to a red Line that tied the Plot together. You could never get lost in their World (in a more physical Sense of "I have no idea where I am", not in regards of Immersion) but always had a Grasp of what's going on.

 

Whereas in Skyrim I managed to completely forget what was happening after the Tutorial. They didn't take your Hand and say "look, you have to do this and that" and gave you complete Freedom. And provide an excellent example why stories with complete Freedom can't have any Depth.

 

Think of it as a Bowl of Water. Every Game has the same limited Amount of Water in Storytelling. Now, you can either fill a rather straight forward Channel, that is not very broad, but very deep. Or you could pour that Water onto the Ground and have it spread all over the Ground with a Depth of approximately 1 mm.

 

If you get that, then you understood my Argument and are an intelligent Person that is willing to actually adress the Arguments against him/her and I congratulate you.

[Dio Demon]

He screwed up my awesome ending. So I got a failure ending. asdfghjkl.

... That is very sad. Very sad indeed.

[AlanC9]

Bethesda rocks. You should follow their example of having nearly no linear plots whatsoever. If you were more like them, you would be almost as awesome as they.

This site really needs a "dislike this" button.

Edit: Unless you were trying to make Bethesda fans sound like idiots. In that case, well played, sir. (My capacity for irony detection has become impaired from all my time spent here, I'm afraid. I can't tell the joke posts from the real ones anymore.)

[Samahl]

GTA is a work of God. It is not to be questioned!

 

Annoyed me. And is misogynist.

 

The irony...?

[Dio Demon]

The irony...?

No it's just the Butterfly Effect.

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

You know what i want, i want the option to tell Duncan to **** himself, sure it would lead to a game over screen but i still want it. As a example ill give Original War, at the start you get a choice - go trough the time machine or dont, if you do the game continues, if you dont you get married, have kids......and the russians invade

[Swaggerjking]

In all actually most of the Bethesda game story line are usually linear and have no real choice only when to what fallout had more but i can't think of any out of choosing a side in the civil war and the dawnguard dlc or just taking 2 seconds to kill some one

[SardaukarElite]

Bethesda rocks. You should follow their example of having nearly no linear plots whatsoever. If you were more like them, you would be almost as awesome as they.

 

Bethesda is pretty cool. The way you can just not do their quests is amazing, like it would have been boring and involved spiders and then I don't do it - BAM! instant player agency. Avant-garde!

 

But really these days Titanfall is the cutting edge of storytelling. Like you play the story, but it is also the multi-player. It's different every time see, and there are two different endings for each match. Two different endings which still don't mess up the rest of the story, because the writing is *that* good.

[Amaror]

Guys! OP is obviously trolling you, please stop indulging him

[Caramacchiato]

Bethesda.

Storyline.

 

:')

[ManOfSteel]

No thanks. BioWare storytelling belongs in a BioWare game, and Bethesda storytelling (or lack thereof) belongs in a Bethesda game. Dragon Age should in no way attempt to emulate the Elder Scrolls experience. They're two different breeds of RPG.

[Dean_the_Young]

This site really needs a "dislike this" button.

Edit: Unless you were trying to make Bethesda fans sound like idiots. In that case, well played, sir. (My capacity for irony detection has become impaired from all my time spent here, I'm afraid. I can't tell the joke posts from the real ones anymore.)

Hey hey, I'm a Bethesda fan, and I think the non-linear open-world style can be quite good for telling its own sort of stories, different as they may be from Bioware's.

 

(Unless my own kidding-dector is failing me right now. In which case, no superficial offense was taken.)

[Navasha]

I like both types of games.   The point is to realize that they are very different and distinct types.    I love sandbox games like Skyrim(even though its really more themepark) for the ability to just make any character and play as much or little of the content as I want.   Most of my characters there only did their small part of the game.   One did the main quest, another the mage guild, another the DB... etc...     The joy of just exploring the dungeons and living the life of an adventurer was enough.  

 

However, Bethesda's storys and characters are extremely superficial.   Your "choices" are more available because nothing changes in the game world no matter what decision you make.    This only works for weak story lines. 

 

In deep storyline games, the characters and stories are paramount.  You have to go into the game with a a character that at least has the same goal as the storyline.   You can alter the method you go about getting to that goal, but you don't have the option to just walk away from it.    A warden character has to believe that stopping the Blight is a necessity.   You can go about doing that in a noble way or a bloodthirsty one if you wish, but your goal is fixed.    

 

Personally, I will sacrifice the ability to make some sandbox choices in exchange for the deeper and more engaging story line.  

[MrDuck]

Yeah I really want to be the leader of the Companions, Thieves Guild and Archmage of the College of Winterhold at the same time 

[Heimdall]

Bethesda as a storytelling model? 

 

If I haven't stopped laughing in ten minutes, somebody should call a paramedic. 

[Heimdall]

Don't get me wrong, I like Skyrim.  I enjoyed building up my character's story, but that story was 90% in my head.  Bethesda's plots have a way of being extremely shallow, and not well executed in many cases.  I still head canon that Alduin was four times larger than he was in the actual game.

 

If I want a well told story with interesting characters and lets me define my character in a way that the story will react to?  I play Dragon Age.

 

If I want to wander around and build stories in my head to link together the tidbits I'm given? I play the Elder Scrolls.

 

If I want to be a white haired grizzled monster hunter with a heart of gold and a talent for getting in women's pants?  I play the Witcher.

 

Easy.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

dev dream team for bestest rpg game ever:

BioWare - characters, lore

Bethesda - world, art

Larian - side quests, mechanics

Obsidian - main story, audio, lore

 

one can dream... i can imagine independent studios team up tho

[Dean_the_Young]

Bethesda-style settings trade depth for breadth. In the Bioware model, there's a very structured narrative of a small, select number of people with fleshed out characterization, but rather limited worldbuilding. The primary worldbuilding devices outside of the core cast are codex and ambient dialogues, which rarely get any attention outside of their own existence. Quite often the story depicted has little or nothing in common with the ambient or codex entries that supposedly create the setting.

 

 

Bethesda stories are less about the central plot and far more about the story of the setting as it is. It's a glorified ambient dialogue track, for better and for worse, and it trades a few hyper-developed character arcs for a great deal more breadth. They aren't necessarily any less compelling or difficult either: while FO3 had laughably scewed Good/Evil delimmas, FNV provided my favorite morality/moral choice systems of the last decade via faction reputations playing off each other. Diverting water in a desert region at the behest of a moralizing murderer away from the major power towards the neutral slum residents may not have the epic consequences of, say, Geth-Quarian peace... but it was honestly a far harder choice than the typical Bioware ideal Third Way out of most delimmas.

 

Bethesda, as a developer, has its hits and misses, but the style it is identified with is capable of quite a bit more. FNV is a great example of what sort of stories a non-linear world design can get, and I'd argue that it does far better at telling the story of the post-apocalypse than Bioware has done at developing the Mass Effect universe (which, believe it or not, does exist beyond the Citadel, Omega, and three or four racial conflicts).

[Dean_the_Young]

dev dream team for bestest rpg game ever:

BioWare - characters, lore

Bethesda - world, art

Larian - side quests, mechanics

Obsidian - main story, audio, lore

 

one can dream... i can imagine independent studios team up tho

Ugh, it'd be a nightmare. Can you imagine who Bioware's writers would be if you told them that virtually all parts of the plot must be open to sequence breaking, and that every companion needs to be killable at virtually any point after meeting them face-to-face?

 

There are a lot of structural differences between Bioware and Bethesda games, and they wouldn't translate over too well.

[andar91]

Okay, this is one of those topics that gets me going ever since FF13.

 

I believe that a story-driven game needs at least some degree of linearity in order to function. The linearity itself can go in many directions. 

 

Let's say you have a plot or objective. We'll call it's starting point A. PERHAPS A could even begin in different ways, but it has to begin.

 

You could resolve it by doing B. You might also have a C or D option. But the point is, there is still a movement from the beginning to the resolution of that plot. This exists even in Skyrim, but it's so much looser.

 

I don't mind flexibility in when or how you get there. In fact, one of my favorite franchises is inFamous (haven't played the new one yet, though), and they take the approach of giving you lots of quest options WITHIN a large open setting, and you choosing when to take it up. There's also side plots and main story plots, but, again, they take place in an open context.

 

I'd be okay with DAI doing something like this, and I suspect they are doing something like this. I find that in games where you simply exist in the world, I rapidly lose motivation and the story is usually nonexistent and/or incredibly un-compelling.

[CronoDragoon]

I tend to be biased in that I think writing compelling characters takes actual writing skill, whereas Bethesda tends to pile on the lore and then mail in the execution. I'm not averse to the idea that good characters can be written in a pure open-world game; I have just yet to see it.

 

 

Bethesda, as a developer, has its hits and misses, but the style it is identified with is capable of quite a bit more. FNV is a great example of what sort of stories a non-linear world design can get, and I'd argue that it does far better at telling the story of the post-apocalypse than Bioware has done at developing the Mass Effect universe (which, believe it or not, does exist beyond the Citadel, Omega, and three or four racial conflicts).

 

I started FNV last night, and after 4-5 hours I can already appreciate the fame/infamy system it has going for it. Unfortunately, it seems like Obsidian was unable to shake the Bethesda curse of all NPCs being robotic, wooden dolls that faithfully deliver all dialogue lines as if my face were a cue card. If the goal of Fallout is to suggest that the war has destroyed everyone's soul and turned them into ghosts pointlessly meandering their respective towns, then bravo. Otherwise it's difficult for me to really give a **** about these people. Maybe that will change once I start meeting the major NPCs of the game.

[JEMEDAOME2]

Bioware are Masters of liner storytelling and that capital M is meant to be there to signify how much Mastery they have, ask yourself this is there a single character in any Elder scrolls game you love (and no Sheogorath doesn't count) or a character a major character who you would want by your side again?   Bet ya can't think of any But I can think loads of Bioware characters I'd want by my side  A Super Mega Ultra Party consisting of Minsc, HK-47, The Black Whirlwind, Alistair,Garrus and Isabella and that would probably be my AAA+ team.

 

My point is each of these characters Bioware have crafted are the result great writing and even better stories Some people might complain about the recent plots in their recent games (even I admit DA2s was a little weak by their standards and lets forget about ME3's ending yeah?) but despite that you still remember those events where those characters stood out and made you smile cry or angry.  Emergent Storytelling is great (both Xcom and Skyrim prove this) but is by no means one size fits all  and I personnaly belive that Bioware should continue to do what they best at and not copy someone else cos makes it £.

[The Hierophant]

I prefer what Obsidian did with New Vegas.