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Dalish Inqusitor


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#26
Mistic

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As to the training, using the term hedge mage wasn't entirely correct, but I wasn't sure how else to phrase it. Keepers haven't been to the Circle and don't have the same formal training. Where did they learn to use the same spells as Circle mages, then, rather than having evolved their own spells or ultimately being the same thing as a hedge mage anyway?

 

That probably has a very easy explanation. After all, Circle Mages didn't invent anything. Magic as Thedosians understand it comes from Tevinter. The ancient elves probably had their own ways (like the Eluvians), but the Magisters were very thorough in the destruction of their culture. I'm sure that they stole a lot of magical knowledge, and that each school has probably evolved in these last centuries, but still, it wouldn't be too far-fetched to think that most mages in Thedas use the same spell for Fireball as the old Tevinter Magisters. Including the elven mages.


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#27
Hizoku

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Maybe I just haven't seen it anywhere, but it would be nice to have a guide to what the tattoos mean. I'd hate to think my canon Dalish in Origins had a tattoo that said "I like to bake bread" rather than "I shoot pointy things." :P

 

i remember seeing a chart somewhere that had all the meanings listed with them but i can't seem to find it  :pinched:

..figures, whenever i look for something i can't find it and when i don't need it its always right in front of my face  <_<

 

EDIT: nevermind~ that one site from a post above has it~ xD



#28
Gervaise

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I originally wanted to play an elf because it would present fairly unique problems, even before knowing we had to be Dalish.   It will give an interesting perspective to the problems besetting Thedas, which the Dalish wouldn't normally interest themselves in.

 

As for the specialisations, I believe they said that you have to learn them before you can use them.    So this would account for a Dalish warrior becoming the Templar specialisation.   They normally would not learn these skills in the clan but receive the training from your companion, Cassandra, and advisor, Cullen.     I guess the same applies to any specialisation.    Just because it is something that the Dalish would not normally know, would be no barrier because experts in the field will teach you it.   Then assuming you survive events, you can teach these new skills to the Dalish, provided they are willing to learn, which I have to admit is not guaranteed.



#29
A Clever Name

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Oh, my. I will definitely play at least once as "Inquisitor Poisonous Water Rat" and "Inquisitor Mounted Ship Cannon". They sound more badass than "Inquisitor Village of Elian".

 

 

Well, I don't know. Being a First would be enough, I think. Gameplay and story segregation. Or do we really think that a mage going throw their Harrowing would only know the spell Arcane Bolt?

 

However, being a First is already a great deal in a Dalish Clan, so the problem would be the rogue or warrior. Is there an equivalent position? Then I remembered a piece of lore that The Masked Empire showed about the Dalish: the warleader. That would also fit nicely with those theories about the Inquisitor having some experience before the conference and thus making their rise to power more believable.

Totally fair point to make, given the whole "you know one spell, now go defeat a demon" thing with the Harrowing in DA:O is pretty silly.  I suppose we're expected to suspend our disbelief that the PC wouldn't know any other spells.  It's entirely possible the PC could know the Keeper's spells but just not mention or use them...which would be sad because the Keeper specialization was awesome.  Maybe you could have a pseudo-Keeper specialization if they add more nature damage spells into the Primal branch?

 

I think your point about the warleader they mentioned in TME makes sense for the non-mage Dalish, especially if it's a requirement that the Inquisitor has some fighting and/or leadership experience.  Although that makes me question what in the world a Vashoth mage would have for prior experience.  Too many questions, not enough answers!



#30
LobselVith8

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Thank you; that's a very useful site. Hopefully we don't have a whole new set of tattoos to worry over in Inquisition, at least not without information as to what they mean.

 

You're welcome. :)

 

As to the training, using the term hedge mage wasn't entirely correct, but I wasn't sure how else to phrase it. Keepers haven't been to the Circle and don't have the same formal training. Where did they learn to use the same spells as Circle mages, then, rather than having evolved their own spells or ultimately being the same thing as a hedge mage anyway?

 

That's all right. The developers mentioned the slaves of Arlathan had written down scraps of information on pieces of paper, so perhaps they kept some of their magical knowledge, along with pieces of their history and lore? The elves of the Dales focused on restoring what had been lost, and the clans have passed down their magical knowledge for centuries while their magic has evolved for their nomadic lifestyle. According to WoT: "Their spells have evolved to be deeply rooted in nature, manipulating earthly forces with a heavy emphasis on herbalism and healing." (page 104)

 

In dialogue between the Dalish Warden and Morrigan, it's also mentioned some elven mages are privy about shapeshifting magic, although the protagonist admits the inception for this knowledge isn't known.



#31
EmperorSahlertz

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We know about as much about the Elven Inquisitor as we do about the other Inquisitors. Which is to say we know the name and where he hails from. That is it.



#32
LobselVith8

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That's a very interesting perspective...  I'm starting to come around to the idea that perhaps this "limitation" is merely the doorway to a whole new set of possibilities.  After reading your post, I'm actually glad that they included a Dalish option.  The Warden was a hero, sure, but it seems like the Inquisitor will have far more influence on the social and political structure of Thedas.  Duh, right?  But what I'm getting at is that for the first time, true fans of the elves like yourself will be able to do things like what you propose, and ultimately have a big impact on elves as a whole.  At least that's what I hope...

 

Thank you. There are a plethora of perspectives among the Dalish, so you have room to shape your protagonist in different ways. Someone who is unorthodox like Merrill (if you're inclined to use magic that involves spirits and become a necromancer), someone who has lived near the Rivaini who follow the Natural Order and seen another side to the shemlen, or the dangerous Dalish of Antiva City. Maybe you even see yourself as a descendant of Lord Hassandriel, who lived during the closing years of the independent Dales, or perhaps your line originated with General Rajmael, who fought in the Exalted March of the Dales and chose death over surrender.

 

A long time ago, the developers made a point that the clans can greatly vary from one another, so you should have plenty of room to create different types of elven characters. I see a myriad of possibilities to explore with an elven Inquisitor, and I'm hopeful the protagonist can bring about positive change for the Elvhen.


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#33
TK514

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Lavellan is a northern Scottish rodent cryptid.

 

Wait.  The Dalish Inquisitor is named 'Poisonous Water Rat'?



#34
Hellion Rex

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We know about as much about the Elven Inquisitor as we do about the other Inquisitors. Which is to say we know the name and where he hails from. That is it.

No we don't. We don't know where the Elven Inquisitor is from. Nor do we know the origin of the Vashoth Inquisitor.

I know the Dwarf is a surfacer, but do we know where they are from?

#35
LobselVith8

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Wait.  The Dalish Inquisitor is named 'Poisonous Water Rat'?

 

Maybe the developers were aiming for the "mythical" overtone with the last name, assuming they are even aware of the legend. I'm doubtful the real world legend will directly translate into the elven equivalent, however. Regardless, I do think it's unfortunate that we haven't gotten the same amount of information about the Dalish, Dwarven, and Vashoth backgrounds as we have about the human Inquisitor.



#36
themageguy

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Keepers would have their own methods of training mages to use their magic. There are probably many similar techniques and philosophies, but the training itself probably was influenced by methods passed down through the ages as well as quite possibly from former circle mages who were able to flee the circle.

After listening to that excellent interview with David Gaider, it seems that with a hedge mage, they have to use their talents through instinct rather than training. For example, give a person a sword. The one who is taught to train a sword will be able to utilise more techniques than the person who simply uses the sword to hack and slash. Ultimately both persons are using the sword to the same end, but the technique will be different.

As for there not being any keeper spec, i strongly believe that there will be a plant based spell in the creation tree, given that spirit incorporates healing now ( according to the description from the videos).

besides, being a keeper/ first doesn't necessarily mean that they always utilise such spells. Primal magics seem to be utilised very strongly amongst the dalish mages.

For my dalish mage, in currently considering speccing her into necromancer. Although dalish don't trust spirits and handle them like rabid animals, i guess they do have some training to deal with spirits (quick example as indicated by Velanna by summoning sylvans) so i figure that my direct mage would utilise undead to achieve her goals.

#37
Gervaise

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I don't think the Dalish treat all spirits like rabid animals.   You can't reason with a rabid animal and basically have to kill it before it gets to you.

 

The Dalish (the wise ones anyway) regard spirits like any dangerous animal.   You treat it with respect, you never forget it could easily kill you but you know that if you are careful you can negotiate your way out of a situation.    You don't threaten or provoke it.    You respect the fact that when you are in the Fade you are a trespasser in that creature's home so you tread warily.

 

I think it is a given that a Dalish mage will be familiar with any magic that deals with healing.    They will also be familiar with magic that involves manipulating natural forces.   They are less likely to know magic that involves manipulating the arcane.    Felassan was familiar with a magic purging spell but he is not regular Dalish.     The ancient elves did know how to combine magic with warrior skills - I loved the arcane warrior spec in DAO - so I imagine a Dalish might be interested in the Knight Enchanter specialisation in an effort to recover the lost lore (which apparently is currently only known to the Warden and any of their mage followers they taught it to).

 

I think the difference between hedge mages and Circle mages is in the area of specialisations, which you don't have at the beginning.     I could be wrong, but I doubt they will start you with a different set of skills depending on whether you are a human, Dalish or Vashoth mage.     Essentially the basic skill set is broad enough that you can tailor it to the particular race and origin according to how you envisage it.     The only thing that is odd with respect to all mages, but particularly the Dalish and the Circle mage, is that they have indicated an older age range for the Inquisitor.    This means that they should have progressed beyond the simple skills of an apprentice/newly appointed First.     A Circle mage might be held back by the restrictions of the Circle but the nature of their life means that a Dalish would advance in skill far more quickly.   Merrill said it was the requirement to focus entirely on learning lore and skills of a potential Keeper that cut her off from her peers.     So I think the fact they gave a fairly broad age range indicates that for mages at least you should be looking at the lower end for your starting skills to make sense.



#38
EmperorSahlertz

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No we don't. We don't know where the Elven Inquisitor is from. Nor do we know the origin of the Vashoth Inquisitor.

I know the Dwarf is a surfacer, but do we know where they are from?

We know the Elven Inquisitor is a Dalish

 

We know the Qunari Inquisitor is a Vasoth

 

We know the Dwarven Inquisitor is a Surface Dwarf (hinted at Carta or Merchant's Guild connections)

 

We know the Human Inquisitor is a Noble from the Free Marches.

 

All in all, we know about the same amount of any of them. The only difference about the human is that we got a specific country of origination. yet such a term is meaningless for the three other Inquisitors.



#39
themageguy

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This link should provide a transcript of the David Gaider interview
http://www.ladyinsan...terview-gaymerx

it mentions hedge mages and their abilities, blood magic and qunari mages. It totally confirmed my theories on what is 'qunari magic' and how it is used by a culture that is distrustful of magic.

Im really interested in the Vashoth. What sort of community do they come from? What are their rules and regulations on magic?

I think Felassan is a very good start for people wanting info on what spells a keeper would use.
Also, if i remember correctly, the apprentice in the clan utilised spirit and ice magic.
Although Felassan isn't deemed a 'proper' dalish, to me he seems to represent something that may be more akin to the original elven mages. Next to him, keepers and the dalish in general seem to be even more like echoes of a lost identity. Of course this is purely my own personal theory and not to be taken to heart as official lore. Lol.

I cant wait to discover more about the dalish heritage in inquisition with my Dalish mage necromancer:)

#40
Mistic

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This link should provide a transcript of the David Gaider interview
http://www.ladyinsan...terview-gaymerx

it mentions hedge mages and their abilities, blood magic and qunari mages. It totally confirmed my theories on what is 'qunari magic' and how it is used by a culture that is distrustful of magic.

 

Thank you! I didn't know there was a transcription. Lady Insanity is the best.

 

A bit sad there was no more information about Dalish magic. The information about Qunari mages doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Even tribal societies can teach magic much better than them.



#41
EmperorSahlertz

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Thank you! I didn't know there was a transcription. Lady Insanity is the best.

 

A bit sad there was no more information about Dalish magic. The information about Qunari mages doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Even tribal societies can teach magic much better than them.

I think that Saarebas are probably amongst the most dangerous mages, when it comes to pure destructive potential. THough they can't do any of the "real dangerous" spells. In short, their fireballs hurt hellalot.


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#42
Hellion Rex

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I think that Saarebas are probably amongst the most dangerous mages, when it comes to pure destructive potential. THough they can't do any of the "real dangerous" spells. In short, their fireballs hurt hellalot.

That lightning spell in Act 2 that knocked the party on their asses comes to mind.



#43
EmperorSahlertz

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That lightning spell in Act 2 that knocked the party on their asses comes to mind.

Yeah.. That is bound to bring back som PTSD  :crying:


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#44
OctagonalSquare

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Even though the Dalish origin isn't my canon playthrough for DA:O, it was by far my favorite.  I'm excited to be able to play as a Dalish again, although I know there are plenty of people that were hoping for a city elf background.  Sorry, guys!

Honestly, I'm not too bothered by it as long as I can still be anti-Dalish, which the devs said I can do.

 

Dwarf= Chilling in one of the cities there

Chillin' out, maxin', relaxin' all cool

And shootin' some b-ball outside of the school

When a couple of demons who were up to no good

Started makin' trouble in my neighborhood

There was one little Breach and Cassandra got scared

She said, "We're founding the Inquisition to repair the Veil Tears!"



#45
Gervaise

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I've been wondering about the situation with regard to elf mages during the Long March.     Did they only come from the ranks of children of liberated parents or did elves who had received training from Tevinter humans comprise the first wave?    Currently if someone demonstrates magical ability in Tevinter they are immediately elevated above the ranks of non-mages, even non-mage nobility.   Has that always been the case?    So would an elf mage identify more with non-mage elves or human mages?   The Canticle of Shartan describes his elves using bows in the battle and other texts mention how they made weapons from anything they could get hold of.    Naturally I suppose any reference to elf mages assisting in the fight would have been expunged but I wonder if they did?

 

You see I'm still trying to work out why the Dalish, and thus presumably the leadership in the Dales before them, have mages as their Keepers and you can only be a Keeper if you are a mage.      Why would a people who had been suppressed and enslaved by mages, which would have included elven mages (if the rules in Ancient Tevinter were the same as today) have allowed it to become the norm that only mages could rule?    Unless, of course, some senior elf mages, who had defected from Tevinter hierarchy because their race prevented their ascension to the rank of Magister, decided they would rather rule their own people.   It would also explain why the focus of the new elven nation seemed to be the recovery of knowledge from an old elven empire in order to create a new one, rather than simply the establishment of the homeland that Shartan desired and why they pretty quickly dropped the religion that he had converted to.    

 

During the period between the end of the First Blight and the start of Andraste's Exalted March things were pretty chaotic with regard to worship, many people having lost faith in the old gods.    It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that elf mages during this period, who were free to conduct research managed to turn up some old references to Arlathan in Tevinter archives and old elven ruins and took it from there.    The ruins in Ferelden seemed to show that humans and elves had co-existed in the past and possibly even worshipped the same gods, but possibly under different names.    I just can't see how the refugees of elven slaves would have recovered knowledge so quickly with regard to language and culture or preserved it during their years of slavery beyond anything more than a few folk tales.    It does make sense if the source of knowledge was actually elf mages who had already been in a privileged position and then defected, with rather more lofty aspirations than the majority of refugees.



#46
Xilizhra

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Is it canon that Shartan converted? He certainly didn't sound like it in the Gauntlet.

 

Although the overall position of elf mage defectors does make sense. Though the idea of mages leading in Arlathan doesn't seem to have been a fabrication either.



#47
Lady Nuggins

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Still the best news
I am so gonna overanalyse every vallaslin in CC

 

On that topic, the Dalish Inquisitor we've seen has a tattoo that doesn't look Dalish at all.  I hope this doesn't mean that the tattoos are more generic in this game.  The race-specific tattoos were one of the coolest parts of the Origins CC--especially the Dalish ones, since they have such particular meaning.

 

2014_07_26_15_26_47_Twitter.jpg



#48
jlb524

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I'm guessing there will be traditional Dalish tattoos but you can still select from other options (so tattoos won't be race exclusive).



#49
Lenimph

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Tats should be race exclusive though... There shouldn't be humans/dwarves/qunari running around with vallaslin on their face.

I actually think it might be war paint. It looks kinda chalky. Either way I will drop all my plans to play as an elf if they don't get exclusive Dalish tats.

#50
CrimsonN7

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On that topic, the Dalish Inquisitor we've seen has a tattoo that doesn't look Dalish at all.  I hope this doesn't mean that the tattoos are more generic in this game.  The race-specific tattoos were one of the coolest parts of the Origins CC--especially the Dalish ones, since they have such particular meaning.

 

2014_07_26_15_26_47_Twitter.jpg

 

Well at least the ears are an improvement, the ones you had in DAO as an elf were weak sauce, didn't look very elf like at all, just pointy human ears.

 

And I hope that is just war paint, who gives their Dalish elf blue tatts? :lol: