545 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

This thread is turning into an Ouroboros of invective. And as much as I love the fact that that gave me cause to use the words 'ouroboros' and 'invective' in a sentence, it's a little wearying.

 

Anyway, enough kvetching. I do have an on-topic question. Do we know if the various races are going to be class-gated, like in DAO? I assume Dwarves can't be mages again because of the lore, but what about the Dalish Inquisitor? I'll be running a Mage every time regardless, but it'd be interesting to have Warrior open as a possibility.

No class gating at all, except for Dwarves.

 

Lol, you can run a Dalish Warrior Templar.

[TK514]

No class gating at all, except for Dwarves.

 

Lol, you can run a Dalish Warrior Templar.

 

Oh, the self-conflict.

[Jazzpha]

No class gating at all, except for Dwarves.

 

Lol, you can run a Dalish Warrior Templar.

 

Now that would be a sight to see. Thanks for the quick reply!

[cjones91]

Oh, the self-conflict.

It's why running a Qunari female mage is gonna be so much fun,I can't wait to see the reactions.

[Jazzpha]

Somewhere, Sten is facepalming so hard Patrick Stewart is green with envy.

[Hellion Rex]

Oh, the self-conflict.

I'm definitely gonna run one of those. It should be pretty awesome to roleplay.

[Ryzaki]

I'm gonna stick with my femQunari necromancer :3 that should be fun.

[cjones91]

I'm gonna stick with my femQunari necromancer :3 that should be fun.

It'll probably screw up the minds of fellow Qunari too.

[Samahl]

Maybe I should make my female qunquisitor a mage... I mean, I already have Revas, Samahl, and Hayden as rogues, and I only have one mage and one warrior, so...

[Ryzaki]

It'll probably screw up the minds of fellow Qunari too.

 

Yes I look forward to trolling the hell out of Iron Bull.

[Jazzpha]

I'm assuming dialogue with Iron Bull will be quite amusing if you run a female Qunari Mage. I might do one specifically for that purpose, actually.

 

Damn, now I have about 4 different playthroughs already queued up. This game is going to keep me busy for a long, long, long time.

 

EDIT: Ninja'd by one post! You win this round, Ryzaki!

[LobselVith8]

I didn't realize all those merchants she murdered were looking for a fight.

 

I'm going to assume you genuinely misunderstood the entire conversation. I was addressing that the clan didn't stand in her way when she wanted to take on the humans who tried to burn down the forest, and Velanna's clan with it; you're addressing what happened after Velanna was duped into thinking humans had murdered her clan and kidnapped her sister.

 

Basically, at the time Keeper Ilshae let Velanna go her own way, she wanted to confront the humans who were basically looking for a fight.

[Dirgegun]

I think what I dislike about this argument is... obviously how some believe the Dalish should be eradicated and the villainisation of both groups, but... also it feels like there's an undertone that if you like the Dalish and their culture you're bad. If you like the humans and their culture and religion you're bad, even if you play your human with an open mind and not agreeing with what the Chantry has done in the past. 

 

Maybe I'm reading intentions where there are none, it's definitely possible, but I feel that's where some of the defensiveness may be coming from?

 

People and characters can be from a certain culture and follow a certain religion without being bad people. It's unfair to paint anyone with a broad brush and say 'Dalish? What jerks." or "Andrastians? Man, you're automatically a scumbag if you have that faith."

 

No one should feel their culture/religion or the characters they like playing are shameful?

 

*frets for everyone*

[Kalamah]

@Dirgegun

 

From the perspective of the elves, all humans are bad. Whether it's a "potentially" or a "maybe they won't literally stab me in the back, but they still call me 'rabbit'" it's more of a when than an if regarding human tendency to exploit and harm elves. The easiest way to explain it is: say you have a barrel of apples, 15 out of 20 of them are poisoned with slow-acting poisons or instant, and you must pick an apple and eat it. The apples represent trusting humans as an elf, in that it's a highly dangerous game of chance.

 

And really, the broad brush approach is the safest for elves. The humans have given them no reason to trust collectively or individually. Elves have no way of knowing whether a shemlen is going to be a poisoned apple, or how fast that poison will act. Therefore there's no way to truly see it as a situation where they're being unfair to humans for mistrusting them. Especially considering the Andrastian religion was the primary excuse the humans used and continue to use to justify their still very current oppression against elves.

[Hellion Rex]

I think what I dislike about this argument is... obviously how some believe the Dalish should be eradicated and the villainisation of both groups, but... also it feels like there's an undertone that if you like the Dalish and their culture you're bad. If you like the humans and their culture and religion you're bad, even if you play your human with an open mind and not agreeing with what the Chantry has done in the past. 

 

Maybe I'm reading intentions where there are none, it's definitely possible, but I feel that's where some of the defensiveness may be coming from?

 

People and characters can be from a certain culture and follow a certain religion without being bad people. It's unfair to paint anyone with a broad brush and say 'Dalish? What jerks." or "Andrastians? Man, you're automatically a scumbag if you have that faith."

 

No one should feel their culture/religion or the characters they like playing are shameful?

 

*frets for everyone*

You have a very good point. Both groups, both in game and out here on the forums, evoke different tones, at least within my mind. Those who have an affinity for the Dalish, in my mind, have this sense of...otherness about them. It's difficult for me to put in to words, but in a world where it seems like Andrastian faith is the norm, the Dalish greatly deviate from that, and perhaps that is what makes them feel like "other" to me. And it's not bad, mind you, it's just...different. I'm really trying to not bring in real world religions here, but it's a similar feeling that I have when I meet a person not of Christian beliefs. That person has that mystique and sense of otherness about them. And again, it's not bad, just very different and often divergent cultures.

 

That being said, I don't think the Dalish are evil or bad. I think they have serious issues that they need to address, because time and time again their cultural fixations have bitten them in the ass.

[dragonflight288]

That being said, I don't think the Dalish are evil or bad. I think they have serious issues that they need to address, because time and time again their cultural fixations have bitten them in the ass.

 

I don't think there's a single group whatsoever in the game that doesn't have its issues. 

[Dirgegun]

@Dirgegun

 

From the perspective of the elves, all humans are bad. Whether it's a "potentially" or a "maybe they won't literally stab me in the back, but they still call me 'rabbit'" it's more of a when than an if regarding human tendency to exploit and harm elves. The easiest way to explain it is: say you have a barrel of apples, 15 out of 20 of them are poisoned with slow-acting poisons or instant, and you must pick an apple and eat it. The apples represent trusting humans as an elf, in that it's a highly dangerous game of chance.

 

And really, the broad brush approach is the safest for elves. The humans have given them no reason to trust collectively or individually. Elves have no way of knowing whether a shemlen is going to be a poisoned apple, or how fast that poison will act. Therefore there's no way to truly see it as a situation where they're being unfair to humans for mistrusting them. Especially considering the Andrastian religion was the primary excuse the humans used and continue to use to justify their still very current oppression against elves.

 

I'm not talking from an in-game perspective, though. I'm talking about on the forums. I've been reading posts, and maybe I'm seeing intention where there is none, and I apologise for that if that's the case, but some of what's being said feels like 'you like playing Andrastian humans? Wow, you're a scumbag for having anything to do with that religion.' or 'you like playing Dalish? You agree with being jerks to everyone then, huh?'.

[Hellion Rex]

I don't think there's a single group whatsoever in the game that doesn't have its issues. 

I agree entirely. Many, many groups have f*cked up as well. They all have issues. But, since we are in this thread, I'm primarily using examples of the Dalish and how they could be addressed in DAI.

[Hellion Rex]

I'm not talking from an in-game perspective, though. I'm talking about on the forums. I've been reading posts, and maybe I'm seeing intention where there is none, and I apologise for that if that's the case, but some of what's being said feels like 'you like playing Andrastian humans? Wow, you're a scumbag for having anything to do with that religion.' or 'you like playing Dalish? You agree with being jerks to everyone then, huh?'.

Somewhat yes, I can agree with that. Now, that being said, I do know quite a few of these posters, and they're not acting like assholes, despite possible undertones to their words. For many, we are just rehashing the same arguments over and over, so it can get a little heated in here.

[Dirgegun]

Somewhat yes, I can agree with that. Now, that being said, I do know quite a few of these posters, and they're not acting like assholes, despite possible undertones to their words. For many, we are just rehashing the same arguments over and over, so it can get a little heated in here.

 

Ah, I didn't mean to make it sound like I believe people are arseholes or attacking people out of spite! When it comes to heated discussions, it can just... start to feel like an 'attack' on that person rather than a debate about the lore? My apologies if it came across like that!

[Kalamah]

That being said, I don't think the Dalish are evil or bad. I think they have serious issues that they need to address, because time and time again their cultural fixations have bitten them in the ass.

Ah yes, the fact that humans keep trying to push the "convert or die, but convert and we'll still kill you anyway for reasons" thing on them is totes the Dalish fixation with preserving their culture biting them in the ass.  Their "serious issues"? Totally have nothing at all to do with human occupation and attempts to forcibly assimilate (read: eradicate) Dalish culture. Nope, it's somehow completely just the Dalish clinging to the past and what was lost, not why it was lost (see: humans).

 

As for mistrusting the opposing side, considering the real world analogues of this... darn right I'm rather put off by how anyone can seriously argue the humans have any right to judge the Dalish, let alone justify their treatment in Thedas. Because similar arguments are used to condone RL oppression all the time, and it's rather personal as a result.

 

In any case, I know this whole thing is a dead zombie horse of an argument, and I'm currently "eh, whatever " about continuing it.

[LobselVith8]

An understatement so vast, I could build Rapture in it.

 

Why Andrew Ryan, you're looking quite different these days. Should I be impressed that my appreciation for Dalish culture and elven rights has reached the depths of the Atlantic Ocean?

 

Speaking of the Dalish protagonist, it does seem like the elven main character will be a bit isolated among so many Andrastian humans, at least at first. The Dalish have had an antagonistic relationship with the Chantry and it's militant arm, to say the least, and it's not until Cassandra severs ties that the Inquisition becomes a neutral organization. I wonder how this might be touched upon, given how lonely it must be for an elf to be in the midst of a group of people who were part of an order with so much bad blood with the People and the nation of the Dales.

 

Given how human-centric it'll be with Cassandra and the other Andrastian soldiers, I wonder what roleplaying possibilities might be available for the player to explore with their elven Inquisitor.

[Hellion Rex]

Why Andrew Ryan, you're looking quite different these days. Should I be impressed that my appreciation for Dalish culture and elven rights has reached the depths of the Atlantic Ocean?

 

Speaking of the Dalish protagonist, it does seem like the elven main character will be a bit isolated among so many Andrastian humans, at least at first. The Dalish have had an antagonistic relationship with the Chantry and it's militant arm, to say the least, and it's not until Cassandra severs ties that the Inquisition becomes a neutral organization. I wonder how this might be touched upon, given how lonely it must be for an elf to be in the midst of a group of people who were part of an order with so much bad blood with the People and the nation of the Dales.

 

Given how human-centric it'll be with Cassandra and the other Andrastian soldiers, I wonder what roleplaying possibilities might be available for the player to explore with their elven Inquisitor.

I hope you are given at least some dialogue responses that are unique to Dalish players remarking on such things. I'm tempted to run a Dalish Warrior Templar. I wonder if you can also enlist city elves as well as Dalish to become a part of your Inquisition Army.

 

Also, since you are marked by some heavy duty magic that's possibly spirit/demon related, I wonder how other Dalish will regard you. Would they care? Would they only tolerate you because you are trying to stop the Breach? Would they think you are some demon in disguise? Damn, this is gonna be interesting.

[Dirgegun]

I really hope there's dialogue regarding that, because I have a couple of characters planned who are going to be far less enthusiastic than others-- not because they want the world to burn, but because 'I just fell out of the fade, can I have a second to deal with that?!' and 'I just fell out of the fade and now you want to recruit me into a human organisations I know nothing about? What?'

[Hellion Rex]

I really hope there's dialogue regarding that, because I have a couple of characters planned who are going to be far less enthusiastic than others-- not because they want the world to burn, but because 'I just fell out of the fade, can I have a second to deal with that?!' and 'I just fell out of the fade and now you want to recruit me into a human organisations I know nothing about? What?'

I think the first conversation with Cass will certainly be interesting as a Dalish.