He still insists on having a Chaste Marriage even know he knows that Hawke wants to take it to the next level. Wouldn't that case even more issues for Rival Path with Sebastian taking back his Holdings and reigning as King/Prince of it? An Heir is to be expected after all.
Or is Sebastian waiting til he has retaken his holdings before having relations with Hawke?
Sebastian hasn't taken the plunge with Hawke because he secretly lusts after her sister Bethany/is hesitant about bringing magic into the Vael bloodline.
Sebastian hasn't taken the plunge with Hawke because he secretly lusts after her sister Bethany/is hesitant about bringing magic into the Vael bloodline.
Interesting, considering Bethany could be dead by Act 2 in any given playthrough. Wouldn't the Chantry frown on necrophilia?
Sebastian hasn't taken the plunge with Hawke because he secretly lusts after her sister Bethany/is hesitant about bringing magic into the Vael bloodline.
Is this the basic premise of a fanfic your writing ?
Well, Bethany likes Sebastian and Carver likes Merrill and there's a spark between Isabella and Fenris...
Regardless, if Sebastian is to take back his holdings and his noble title than he will need to have an heir, kinda hard to do tat if he wont touch Hawke.
Sebastian is annoying me at present because I can't get him to have his dialogue with Elthina saying that Hawke has killed all the mercenaries. I've never had this trouble before when I didn't care. Now I want to have him flirting with Bethany I can't get him. 
You know, thinking about it...
Sebastian is a huge hypocrite. He got laid before, most likely many times, based off what we hear and that he's a Prince thus he could have any woman that he wanted. Yet he wont even entertain anything with Hawke who isn't a virgin even though he himself isn't a virgin.
You know, thinking about it...
Sebastian is a huge hypocrite. He got laid before, most likely many times, based off what we hear and that he's a Prince thus he could have any woman that he wanted. Yet he wont even entertain anything with Hawke who isn't a virgin even though he himself isn't a virgin.
It's not hypocrisy, not about this, anyway. He considers his life before his vows to be that of a wastrel and scoundrel, he speaks disparagingly of this time in his life. He feels if Hawke loves him, then she should love (ie: respect) all of him, his values as well. (At least 'friended' Sebastian does).
I get the feeling Rivaled Sebastian, where you encourage him to return to Starkhaven and reclaim his family's title is very different, though I could be wrong. I didn't care for rivaled Sebastian or the 'romance' with him. It felt cold and emotionless to me, more like the business contract a male noble warden has with Anora than a romance. But maybe LadyHawke gets a more physical Rivaled Sebastian (albeit off camera).
Considering neither aspect is a very satisfying romance (at least to me) I had more fun flirting with him than actually 'romancing' him since it won't muck up any other romance Hawke is cultivating.
Point is that he still got laid a great deal and doesn't look at Hawke at all if she isn't a virgin. He doesn't even give Hawke an option to be "Born Again" like he was per say. That in turn makes him a hypocrite as he got a lot of nookie but that's "okay" to him because he "repented" but he doesn't extend the same to Hawke. She loses her virginity and she's suddenly tainted to him no matter what she does even if she lost her virginity before meeting Sebastian.
Sebastian doesn't seem to respect Hawke, he knows that she wants to have sex and maybe have children in the future but he refuses to entertain the thought of a marriage between them being anything more than Hawke remaining a virgin and never having sex.
The flirting is funny but the romance is a disaster as it's Hawke giving everything to Sebastian, and living to his standards, while he gives nothing up to Hawke, as he already chose to be chaste, and he doesn't live to her standards nor does he care for what she wants but expects her to do what he wants.
Sebastian simply doesn't understand that Marriage is a Two-Way Street, not "My Way or Get Out".
So as I see it the bottom line is that you would not like Sebastian as a person and you regard his presentation as being hypocritical. OK, I can see that. I think his years in the Chantry and the devastation caused by the assassination of his family have likely colored his attitudes. There were rulers like this. I agree, though, that it is rather difficult to procure heirs in a chaste relationship.
Point is that Sebastian doesn't respect Hawke even after all Hawke does for him while he does very little of anything for Hawke. He even betrays Hawke is Hawke doesn't kill Anders even if they're in a romance.
Point is that Sebastian doesn't respect Hawke even after all Hawke does for him while he does very little of anything for Hawke. He even betrays Hawke is Hawke doesn't kill Anders even if they're in a romance.
Sebastian does tag along to help kill anyone Hawke wants in Acts 2 and 3. That seems like more than "very little of anything."
Sebastian leaving at the end of Act 3 if Anders is spared isn't a betrayal any more than Morrigan leaving before the final battle against the archdemon is if her ritual is refused. It is abandonment, but not betrayal. Both give an honest ultimatum.
why can't you marry him on the ps3 version even when he asks to marry you the game acts as if he never did why did bioware never fix this it sucks
Sebastian does tag along to help kill anyone Hawke wants in Acts 2 and 3. That seems like more than "very little of anything."
Sebastian leaving at the end of Act 3 if Anders is spared isn't a betrayal any more than Morrigan leaving before the final battle against the archdemon is if her ritual is refused. It is abandonment, but not betrayal. Both give an honest ultimatum.
Sebastian owe's Hawke and Hawke can do quite a lot of Sebastian and even get him to take control of his life.
Point is that Sebastian doesn't see Hawke as an equal in regards to sex. Sebastian feels that he gets an out for being "Born again" or whatever but he doesn't even look at Hawke if Hawke isn't a virgin, when he isn't, nor does he suggest that Hawke be born again so that they may be together.
Sebastian owe's Hawke and Hawke can do quite a lot of Sebastian and even get him to take control of his life.
Point is that Sebastian doesn't see Hawke as an equal in regards to sex. Sebastian feels that he gets an out for being "Born again" or whatever but he doesn't even look at Hawke if Hawke isn't a virgin, when he isn't, nor does he suggest that Hawke be born again so that they may be together.
Sebastian does reimburse Hawke quite well for helping with his quests. Yes, he'll say he owes Hawke in Act 2 on the friendship path despite this to which Hawke can confirm or deny.
You're being unfair on Sebastian. He doesn't judge Hawke's behavior much at all considering how religious he is. However, he wants to be with someone romantically reflecting his current mindset; not his former one.
No he doesn't, compared to what Hawke does for him he does very little and will tell Hawke outright, despite how much you've helped him, that he will betray and invade Kirkwall if you don't do what he says even if you romanced him. This shows a complete lack of respect and trust Sebastian has for Hawke.
I'm not being unfair at all. Sebastian doesn't even entertain the thought of Hawke being born again and if Hawke lost her virginity before even meeting him he will adamantly refuse any romance ever taking place. That's beyond hypocritical of him as he's no virgin when he meets Hawke and he never once suggests to Hawke that they could be born again before the Maker so that they may pursue a romance.
A virgin Hawke and a non-virgin Sebastian, and how quickly he'll betray you in regards to Anders, is not an equal relationship at all as Sebastian doesn't want it to be. He wants to be the dominant one and Hawke submissive to his demands regardless on how Hawke feels about certain things or not.
While I can appreciate not everyone is going to like all characters, I think your hatred for the character is coloring your views. Not once does Sebastian put down Hawke for her not being a virgin. Instead he simply doesn't insert himself where he shouldn't be (if she's involved with someone else--IE triggered one of the romances that take priority over his). He will only take up the banner if Hawke hasn't made overtures with any other NPC. Whatever life she had prior to Kirkwall (she may or may not have been a virgin before leaving Lothering, it doesn't go into that detail), has no bearing on his viewpoint. It's who she is involved with, not her status that concerns him.
As to the 'betrayal'. If you choose to see it that way, go for it. It's your game, you can interpret it however you wish. I don't though. I see a Hawke who lets Anders go with what amounts to a slap on the wrist for murdering the woman Sebastian loves like a mother to be betraying him. Heaven forbid some NPC should say "no" to some players, they get all up in arms over it. 
One can make him a rival in which I imagine the romance takes a pretty standard path (off camera) considering the whole path of rivalry is convincing him to forsake his chantry vows and take up the royal standard of Starkhaven.
My issue with the romance is it's not integrated well into the plot and seems like an afterthought. I don't see anything of Sebastian demanding she be submissive to him. If you don't want a chaste relationship, you can tell him you aren't interested and he backs off. Hardly the behavior of a 'demanding dominant' who disregards Hawke's feelings.
In fact, he takes rejection better than Anders who gets all pissy with you and 7 years later tries to badmouth your current love interest (if Merrill or Fenris).
I wish they had just made Sebastian a flirt option instead of a supposed "romance" option. Kind of like how Teagan was in DAO: you knew nothing was going to come of the flirtation, but it was still fun to do nonetheless.
It isn't coloring my views at all, Sebastian is simply a huge hypocrite when it comes to being romanced by Hawke. Yes he does, he calls her out, if she tries to romance him, as having given away her virginity already even if she gave it away before meeting or flirting with him. Sebastian has no room to talk as he's no virgin and has quite the history, he also doesn't ever suggest that Hawke could do what he did, and do the whole "born again" excuse, so that they could be together.
That's incorrect, if Hawke has sex or even flirts throughout DA2, even prior to meeting Sebastian or flirting with him, he will know and push her away without a seconds thought. Thus proving his hypocrisy as he's no virgin when he "found the Maker" or when he meets Hawke.
It's okay for him to be purified in the Makers eyes but it isn't for Hawke as far as Sebastian is concerned. Furthermore Sebastian will still betray you, even if you romanced him, and threatens to raze an entire city. He doesn't once consider Hawke's thoughts on killing Anders or that Hawke may want to put Anders on an official trial thus taking away the Marty angle that Anders wanted.
It is indeed demanding as Hawke can bend over backgrounds for him and, like I said repeatedly, he will not even consider anything, relationship-wise, with Hawke if Hawke isn't pure and ready to be fully dedicated to only him while he wont to her(As he will never even entertain having sex with her even when he knows that she wants their relationship to become fully intimate).
Rival Sebastian was pushed to go away from the strict Chantry teachings and he even breaks his vows to the Maker if he goes to reclaim his home, yet he doesn't do the same when it comes to sex. That's a mockery of the Chantry's teachings as Sebastian is selectively choosing which parts to obey and which to ignore thus revealing that he isn't a devoted servant to the Maker as he harps about.
In the end Sebastian never should have been made a romance at all. The only reason he isn't into sex, or breaking that part of his vows unlike the other parts he breaks for a personal vendetta, is because he wasn't getting a romance scene. He doesn't even kiss or embrace Hawke! Thus by cutting corners, and making him a romance anyway, he comes off as inconsistent and a hypocrite.
No he doesn't, compared to what Hawke does for him he does very little and will tell Hawke outright, despite how much you've helped him, that he will betray and invade Kirkwall if you don't do what he says even if you romanced him. This shows a complete lack of respect and trust Sebastian has for Hawke.
I'm not being unfair at all. Sebastian doesn't even entertain the thought of Hawke being born again and if Hawke lost her virginity before even meeting him he will adamantly refuse any romance ever taking place. That's beyond hypocritical of him as he's no virgin when he meets Hawke and he never once suggests to Hawke that they could be born again before the Maker so that they may pursue a romance.
A virgin Hawke and a non-virgin Sebastian, and how quickly he'll betray you in regards to Anders, is not an equal relationship at all as Sebastian doesn't want it to be. He wants to be the dominant one and Hawke submissive to his demands regardless on how Hawke feels about certain things or not.
I think you're over-analyzing Sebastian's "romance" by mentioning the lack of an option for him to ask Hawke to be "born again" when in truth it's just lack of effort on the game developers' part.
As I said, despite Sebastian's protests to the contrary he helps out Hawke often; far more than vice-versa. And when Hawke helps him Sebastian pays well; but again not vice versa.
You must have downloaded a different version of Sebastian from me, OP, because my Sebastian doesn't act like yours. If mine acted the way you describe I'd hate him too. I think it's a difference of perception. You see the character as a complete douchenozzle, and a hypocrite. I don't.
Funny how perspective changes from person to person. I don't think we're going to agree on anything in regards to the character except that he never should have been a romance at all. Now that I can agree with. I'd prefer if he had been, as TheMadHarridan suggests like Teagan, someone fun to flirt with, but no real romance--because he is fun to flirt with and fluster, and I know it won't screw up any other romance Hawke has going on. As it is, he isn't written with the feel of a fully realized romance anyway. Either the writers just got extremely lazy with him or else they planned to do more and just ran out of time/resources.
What gets me is the vehemence you express in your posts. It makes the character seem a lot more interesting than I felt he was. I found the character kind of bland and while attractive, not interesting enough to make me do more than a 'meh'. He had a lot of potential that just wasn't lived up to in application.
Sebastian does not betray Hawke. Hawke knows full well how Sebastian feels about Elthina. Hawke allowing Anders to live is the big betrayal in Sebastian's eyes.
This hearkens back to Alistair and Loghain. If the warden lets Loghain live and become a warden then Alistair leaves. Why because Alistair sees this act as a big betrayal, because it was through Loghain's action that Alistair's father figure (Duncan) dies along with his half brother (Cailan). Both the Warden and Hawke knew what button would cause their companion to leave.
Sebastian is also so not being hypocritical. Being born again means leaving the old lifestyle behind and embracing the new lifestyle which in Sebastian's case includes chastity if he remains a brother (Friendship path). He does ask Hawke to become a sister of the faith and engage in a caste marriage, (so Hawke has the option to be born again and stay with Senastian as long as she accepts chastity) but Hawke has the choice to accept of reject that offer and move on with her life.
If Sebastian is rivaled then he will return to Starkhaven to retake it. He will leave the Chantry. He states that he will return for Hawke and that the marriage between the Prince of Starkhaven and Viscountess of Kirkwall will be the strongest in the Free Marshes.
Just because we do not get a sex scene with Sebastian on screen does not mean that the rivaled marriage would be chaste.
Note that Hawke retains the right to choose. Hawke is the one who pursues Sebastian not the other way around. Hawke also knows Sebastian's stance whether he remains in the Chantry or not. In fact it is Hawke's responses that will move Sebastian one way or the other.
As fas as Hawke doing more for Sebastian than vice versa I feel that is incorrect. Hawke is duly compensated for helping Sebastian in the beginning. Sebastian also offers his services to Hawke free of charge as do all the companions.
Friends help each other. There is no debt between friends.
It's absurd to consider Sebastian leaving Hawke if they spare Anders as "betrayal." Anders basically just blew up everything Sebastian cared for and people seriously expect Sebastian to work with him after that? Imagine someone just blew up your house with all your family inside and then your friend defends this person and says for you to work with them. Would you? Considering what happened I think Sebastian leaving rather than trying to kill Anders shows his respect for Hawke.
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