238 réponses à ce sujet

[Celtic Latino]

I highly prefer her as Queen, whether alone, married to Alistair or with a HN warden. In fact I think I don't have any world states where its just Alistair alone I think she already has experience and isn't emotional (or immature) like Alistair.

[King Dragonlord]

Most of Anora's supporters in the fandom seem to argue that yes Alistair is a nice noble guy and she's a backstabber and opportunist but we all know she's more saavy and a stronger ruler. But is she?

 

If she were Fereldan's worthy and rightful ruler, she wouldn't have needed the Warden to come in with an alliance to help put her back on the throne. All her arguments about Fereldan politicians sensing weakness in Alistair should apply even moreso to her. 

 

The fact that Logain could take over as Regent when there was a sitting queen and then Alistair could come in and claim his place as king when he is the illegitimate son and she is, again, the sitting queen, the fact that there even is a landsmeet at all and that it could be a threat to her rule proof that she is not strong. Without that strength, her lack of character and hunger for power is doubly unjustifiable. 

 

And its not like she earned her spot. She's queen because of an arranged marriage, because her father and King Maric were war buddies. 

 

And you can win the Landsmeet without her support. Thats the death nail for any argument supporting her. She's a weak ruler and as treacherous as her father. We're told multiple times that she's a strong ruler and a canny politician but what we actually see says different. 

 

But no, Bioware will no doubt come up with some hand wavy excuse for why she's back on the throne in DAI even if you have Alistair and Human Female Noble Warden on the throne (or Alistair with Human or Dwarf Noble Warden as Chancellor). Something akin to what they did with the Councilor in Mass Effect 3 where Anderson got tired of it and handed it back over (at least it kind of made sense there). 

[Icy Magebane]

Most of Anora's supporters in the fandom seem to argue that yes Alistair is a nice noble guy and she's a backstabber and opportunist but we all know she's more saavy and a stronger ruler. But is she?

 

If she were Fereldan's worthy and rightful ruler, she wouldn't have needed the Warden to come in with an alliance to help put her back on the throne. All her arguments about Fereldan politicians sensing weakness in Alistair should apply even moreso to her. 

Alistair never takes it upon himself to seek the throne unless the Warden holds his hand the whole way.  He doesn't come to terms with the dual nature of humanity until the Warden forces him to see the truth, and even then he can be molded into a gentler, more dependent version.  Would he even have made it out of Ostagar without the Warden?  You might use the Darkspawn Chronicles to show that he would have at least made it to Denerim, but in the end, the Archdemon wins.  It might be best not to bring that timeline up...

 

Sure, Anora eventually turned to the Warden for help, but she only did so because at that point in the story, he was holding all the cards.  Whoever the Warden supported was who the people would follow... she was wise to recognize that in advance.  Allying herself with the Warden was the best chance of maintaining her power and keeping her father alive.  Alistair, on the other hand, was basically the Warden's incompetent ally who just happened to have royal blood... he was never fully qualified to be king, and he needed help every step of the way to reach his full potential.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I always have her as Queen, so look forward to seeing her again. 

[King Dragonlord]

You talk about Alistair's reluctance to rule like its a bad thing. I count it as a strength. 

 

As for his other failings, he was never given a chance. He was cast aside throughout his youth not for any failing of his but simply because his presence was an uncomfortable reminder of his father's infidelity. He spent his entire childhood being looked on with disfavor and still grew up to be one of Fereldan's very finest warriors, 

 

He's going to need a little time to get used to being in the big seat sure but he has able advisors in the form of Eamon (and possibly the Warden) and his courage on the battlefield will serve him well. In time, he'll learn what he needs to know, he's a good student as his Templar training and subsequent Warden recruitment show. 

 

Compare Anora who was raised by Fereldan's hero, groomed for rule and still failed in Fereldan's darkest hour to step up and take control. 

[Green]

Provided that she isn't either imprisoned or queen I always assumed that there's was nothing really stopping her from claiming Gwaren, seeing as she's Loghain's only heir. That would put her on some interesting footing for the coup theory.

 

...or am I remembering incorrectly and she always gets imprisoned if not queen?

[King Dragonlord]

Also, I don't need to bring up the Darkspawn Chronicles timeline. In DA2 if you put Alistair on the throne, he shows up in Act 3 which is several years after the end of Origins. He's still king, there is no mention of any threat to his rule (something Meredith would have likely mentioned). Apparently its taking those politicians a while longer than Anora predicted to sniff that weakness he supposedly has. 

[Killdren88]

The only thing that will make me happy is if get to skewer that power hungry Harpy.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Anora is an interesting character, to say the least. 

 

My characters never trusted her, for the simple reason that she is a political figure. One does not simply trust a politician or a monarch, that would be foolish. 

 

However, I am of the opinion that she is not a good ruler. She is a decent ruler, perhaps even a competent one but not a good one. While she is pragmatic, as any political ruler would be or should be, she has little care for the common folk and the elves. 

 

I mean, building a university is a great idea but who would attend it ? Ferelden was devastated by the Blight and the nation was almost broke. To have a university, you need people to be able to teach and students to attend. That requires money and in a nation like Ferelden, requires subsidy, which they do not possess when they ended the Blight.

 

Additionally, universities are for people who wish to further their education which means there need to be schools first since the average Ferelden is not likely very educated or literate. Which would mean, if there was a university, it would for the most part, be open to Circle Mages and Nobles because they get access to basic education which one requires to enter a university. 

 

On the other hand, Alistair as a hardened king, is much more people oriented, cares about elves and seems to actually care about the boons as well. 

 

In my opinion, Anora would make a good long term ruler and she would make an outstanding ruler when Ferelden is peaceful and prosperous. However, she is terrible at managing a country in crisis. Hardened Alistair or a decent Cousland can do that job much better. 

 

Which is why at the end of the day, Anora never rules alone in my playthroughs. She is either with a hardened Alistair or a Cousland by her side. 

[Ryzaki]

The only thing that will make me happy is if get to skewer that power hungry Harpy.

 

Pretty sure hardened Alistair has her killed if he survives archie.

[King Dragonlord]

Provided that she isn't either imprisoned or queen I always assumed that there's was nothing really stopping her from claiming Gwaren, seeing as she's Loghain's only heir. That would put her on some interesting footing for the coup theory.

 

...or am I remembering incorrectly and she always gets imprisoned if not queen?

 

All I remember is Alistair says "put her in a tower for now." He will always say this if he becomes king and she is not his queen. 

 

But you make a good point about Gwaren, I had forgotten about that. Though if the Grey Warden (and this can be a Warden PC of any origin) asks for "a title and riches" as his/her boon, Gwaren along with Logain's assets is what is granted. It could be the compromise Alistair makes to settle any remaining dissent. 

[Icy Magebane]

Also, I don't need to bring up the Darkspawn Chronicles timeline. In DA2 if you put Alistair on the throne, he shows up in Act 3 which is several years after the end of Origins. He's still king, there is no mention of any threat to his rule (something Meredith would have likely mentioned). Apparently its taking those politicians a while longer than Anora predicted to sniff that weakness he supposedly has. 

My point was that the Warden helps Alistair become king and keeps him alive throughout all of DA:O.  If the Warden didn't help him every step of the way, he would never have become king on is own.  There's really no guarantee he would have survived for long on his own.

[Icy Magebane]

He's going to need a little time to get used to being in the big seat sure but he has able advisors in the form of Eamon (and possibly the Warden) and his courage on the battlefield will serve him well. In time, he'll learn what he needs to know, he's a good student as his Templar training and subsequent Warden recruitment show. 

 

Compare Anora who was raised by Fereldan's hero, groomed for rule and still failed in Fereldan's darkest hour to step up and take control. 

Well, Anora might also have advisors to lean on and the Warden may or may not be among them... saying that Alistair would make a good king because there are people willing to help him out is not a compelling argument.  Whether or not he learns to be a strong king is a matter of speculation.  It could go either way, so you can't rely on the chance that it might work out.  Finally, Anora was directly opposed by her father, who not only shaped her development but was one of the most respected generals in the history of Ferelden... I mean, talk about daunting.  How many people are going to stand fearlessly in defiance of such a symbol?  Give the woman the credit she is due.

[King Dragonlord]

My point was that the Warden helps Alistair become king and keeps him alive throughout all of DA:O.  If the Warden didn't help him every step of the way, he would never have become king on is own.  There's really no guarantee he would have survived for long on his own.

 

Actually, he makes it all the way up to Fort Drakon on his own. The only thing he fails to do is slay the Archdemon and even then he's the toughest opponent. Surely thats not your qualification for King is it?

[King Dragonlord]

Well, Anora might also have advisors to lean on and the Warden may or may not be among them... saying that Alistair would make a good king because there are people willing to help him out is not a compelling argument.  Whether or not he learns to be a strong king is a matter of speculation.  It could go either way, so you can't rely on the chance that it might work out.  Finally, Anora was directly opposed by her father, who not only shaped her development but was one of the most respected generals in the history of Ferelden... I mean, talk about daunting.  How many people are going to stand fearlessly in defiance of such a symbol?  Give the woman the credit she is due.

The point is she already had all that grooming, all the advisors and all the support. She'd been queen for years, supposedly doing the real ruling while Cailan was more a "face" or a good front. And she still found herself in this situation. 

[Icy Magebane]

Actually, he makes it all the way up to Fort Drakon on his own. The only thing he fails to do is slay the Archdemon and even then he's the toughest opponent. Surely thats not your qualification for King is it?

Hold on, we shouldn't get hung up on this DC stuff... I only brought it up because it proves that Alistair could survive for a while without the Warden... however, it also proves that he is doomed to fail against the Archdemon.  Based on that, it shouldn't be used as a way to claim that he can make it on his own.  Is that clearer?  I kind of mentioned it preemptively... I didn't mean to get us hung up on that point, though...

[Xilizhra]

It's strongly implied that Anora is executed after a while if Alistair becomes solo king.

 

I see her as being roughly similar to Bhelen, with the major difference that she's not the best option.

[King Dragonlord]

Hold on, we shouldn't get hung up on this DC stuff... I only brought it up because it proves that Alistair could survive for a while without the Warden... however, it also proves that he is doomed to fail against the Archdemon.  Based on that, it shouldn't be used as a way to claim that he can make it on his own.  Is that clearer?  I kind of mentioned it preemptively... I didn't mean to get us hung up on that point, though...

No now that I've looked at it, it actually looks like this should be brought up. Not only did Alistair manage to build the same alliance as the warden would have, he threw in some extras (Qunari mercenaries, the Circle AND the Templars, etc). From the wiki: 

 

• Alistair traveled to Haven and obtained a pinch of ash from the Urn, as the codex mentions that Arl Eamon survived (despite his not being present for the battle).
• In the dispute between the Dalish elves and the werewolves, Alistair convinced the werewolves to attack the Dalish, as the werewolves appear as Alistair's personal bodyguards during the Fort Drakon encounter.
• Alistair saved the Circle of Magi.
• It is not stated whom Alistair elected to be King of Orzammar, but dwarven forces do appear in the Palace District.
  • Alistair also convinced the Legion of the Dead to come to the surface, as Kardol and other legionnaires appear in the district as well.
• Alistair, agreed to let Branka use the Anvil of the Void, as several steel golems appear in the Palace District.
• During Unrest in the Alienage, Alistair did not agree to any of Caladrius' offers, as Valendrian appears in the Alienage.
• Alistair let Vaughan Kendells out of his cell, as Vaughan appears in the Market District.
• Alistair convinced Ser Cauthrien not to fight him in the Royal Palace.
• Alistair executed Loghain at the Landsmeet.
• Alistair and Anora agreed to rule together in order to avoid a civil war between the nobles.

• Alistair convinced the Templar Order to join him as well, as Wynne and a Circle mage appear alongside the templars, including Knight-Commander Greagoir and Cullen.
• Alistair apparently convinced Arl Howe to abandon Loghain and join him instead, as Howe appears at the Denerim City Gates in an attempt to rally the defenders.
• Alistair also hired the services of a number of Qunari mercenaries, who fight alongside the dwarves in the Palace District.
• Alistair convinced Ser Cauthrien to fight for him, as she appears as the leader of Arl Howe's bodyguards.
• Alistair appointed Bann Teagan to lead his Knights of Redcliffe, as Teagan is the commander of the forces in the Market District.

[Maria Caliban]

Oh please, lock her in a tower, she will have been given an Arling within the fortnight.
 
Maker Save the Queen!

With Alistiar as king? Probably.

It depends on how much of a stooge he ends up being to Arl Emmon.

[King Dragonlord]

It looks like if anything Alistair is stronger for having been forced to take charge sooner. 

[Icy Magebane]

RE: Darkspawn Chronicles - Yes, and then he dies fighting the Archdemon's minions and dooms Ferelden.  So whatever else he did is moot.

[Xilizhra]

With Alistiar as king? Probably.

It depends on how much of a stooge he ends up being to Arl Emmon.

If he's hardened, not that much.

 

 

RE: Darkspawn Chronicles - Yes, and then he dies fighting the Archdemon's minions and dooms Ferelden.  So whatever else he did is moot.

His fatal mistake, apparently, not doing Return to Ostagar and killing the Vanguard there. However, I'm not certain that that counts as an error he might reasonably have known to be grievous.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Anora is Queen in my playthrough, hopefully she'll give Celene a bitchslap for trying to steal her husband.

[Maria Caliban]

Anora is Queen in my playthrough, hopefully she'll give Celene a bitchslap for trying to steal her husband.

Anora vs Celene? I could enjoy that.

[Dabrikishaw]

I wonder if this means she wasn't executed after Alistair becomes king and rules alone.