238 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Considering your name i hope u are being sarcastic.
There is nothing good about a person who can sell her own father and the warden who saved her for some damned throne.
If you came with a sewer rat woman like anora you wont be defending her, you'd be calling her b1tch.
+Your sister sounds intelligent, you shud listen to what she says

 

Hmmm.... belittling others with an implication that one person's beliefs aren't "intelligent". Calling a queen a "sewer rat woman". Charming.

 

Anora's concern is that the nation is secure and stable. To that end, she will do whatever it takes to ensure that happens. How is that a bad thing? You think politics is simple, that it's all honor and altruism? You'd be a damned fool if you thought something so childishly naive.

 

At this point in the game, Loghain has curbstomped the Bannorn and has defined his regency by that, but the Landsmeet presents an opponent with just as equal, if not more, standing against Loghain (Eamon and the Warden). Seeing an opportunity and recognizing the discontent among the people, she deliberately goes to Howe's estate not only to find answers, but to subtly manipulate the Warden to her advantage.

 

Prior to this, she was actively trying to get the Bannorn who were rebelling against the crown (AND WEREN'T EVEN UNITED ENOUGH TO HAVE A CHANCE OF VICTORY) to stand down. She was trying to mediate the field, but the Bannorn didn't even want to listen to her. They thought what she was saying was just Loghain's words.

 

This is their ****** queen and there's a goddamn Darkspawn invasion on their doorsteps and the Bannorn decides honor and opportunity (read Loghain's codex, it says some nobles took advantage of the vacuum) are more important then unity in the face of a threat.

 

At this point in time, siding against Loghain can possibly carry with it enough to get her secure on the throne. And she uses it to her advantage. At the same time, she's very much an advocate that Loghain, whatever his crimes, not be killed out of hand. Not only because of him being an asset militarily, but because he's her father.

 

And Loghain does not hold Anora's actions against her. I fail to see why we should.

[Ryzaki]

But she never did that for me. She just kind of accepted it.

Like... what?

 

Did you say you were going to kill him without question? Because that's always flagged it for me.

 

I mean yeah if you kill him during the landsmeet she accepts it (though she will refuse to marry whoever actually did it). But nah I always get backstabbed if I tell her there's no way I'm letting him live.

[KaiserShep]

Did you say you were going to kill him without question? Because that's always flagged it for me.

 

I mean yeah if you kill him during the landsmeet she accepts it (though she will refuse to marry whoever actually did it). But nah I always get backstabbed if I tell her there's no way I'm letting him live.

 

This may be a bug then, because I have always killed Loghain without question and was never betrayed.

[Samahl]

Did you say you were going to kill him without question? Because that's always flagged it for me.

I mean yeah if you kill him during the landsmeet she accepts it (though she will refuse to marry whoever actually did it). But nah I always get backstabbed if I tell her there's no way I'm letting him live.

Maybe that's it, then? I don't think I told her I'd absolutely kill him... I'm guessing this happens beforehand?

EDIT: What exactly do you say to her to get her to betray you?

[Ryzaki]

This may be a bug then, because I have always killed Loghain without question and was never betrayed.

 

Again this is before you actually kill him.

 

If you say you're going to kill him in the conversation you have with her before you confront Loghain for the 2nd time she betrays you. If you don't mention it and then just kill him she doesn't (because it's too late then and pointless).

 

 

Maybe that's it, then? I don't think I told her I'd absolutely kill him... I'm guessing this happens beforehand?

 

Yes. You can talk to Anora after the alienage quest but before actually confronting Loghain for the 2nd time. That's when you can arrange Anora's and Alistair's marriage and tell her you're gonna support her (or not support her) and all that good stuff.

[KaiserShep]

Again this is before you actually kill him.

 

If you say you're going to kill him in the conversation you have with her before you confront Loghain for the 2nd time she betrays you. If you don't mention it and then just kill him she doesn't (because it's too late then and pointless).

 

I guess I'm a bit confused here. There's a lot of dialogue options from the Arl of Redcliffe's estate and the Landsmeet that I'm not really recalling.

[Ryzaki]

I guess I'm a bit confused here. There's a lot of dialogue options from the Arl of Redcliffe's estate and the Landsmeet that I'm not really recalling.

 

Yeah it's in the same branch as asking her what Loghain was like (I think anyway). She asks if there's anyway he could be spared if you go "No without question." she'll bust out with her backstab.    Wait I was wrong. Below post.

 

 

 

Maybe that's it, then? I don't think I told her I'd absolutely kill him... I'm guessing this happens beforehand?

EDIT: What exactly do you say to her to get her to betray you?

 

She will ask you if there's anyway to spare Loghain (I'm pretty sure you follow the the asking her what Loghain was like branch). Say "no without question." She'll go "ah." and later on will betray you.

 

Edit: Let me reload so I can type out the exact dialogue.

[Ryzaki]

Alright I found it. You have to talk to her right after Howe's estate but before the alienage. She'll apologize for her behavior then you pick the second choice which is "What happens to Loghain when you're queen." Then pick "There isn't. Without question."

[HK-90210]

Alright I found it. You have to talk to her right after Howe's estate but before the alienage. She'll apologize for her behavior then you pick the second choice which is "What happens to Loghain when you're queen." Then pick "There isn't. Without question."

 

Yup. The other three options will not lead to betrayal, one of which is the more diplomatic "Justice must still be done, don't you think?".

 

Personally, I can respect Anora's choice to betray the Warden if they're going to be that cold-blooded with her father. She never says that her father must live. Just the she'd prefer if he did. At the Landsmeet, you can be as cold-blooded towards Logain as you want, and Anora won't stop you. She knows, deep down, that her father will probably die before he surrenders the regency. But she's not going to go along with a plan that makes her complicit in his unquestioned execution. Just like she won't marry her father's killer, be it the Warden or Alistair. She has a soft spot for him. To me, that's a plus, as that shows that she's not a golem.

 

Still, I had a Warden once who went with the "no question" dialogue and still put her on the throne with Alistair. She betrayed him, he won the Landsmeet anyway, and she still ended up as Queen whether she liked it or not. I always imagined my Warden giving her a self-satisfied smirk after that. The two didn't get along very well.

[Ryzaki]

Yup. The other three options will not lead to betrayal, one of which is the more diplomatic "Justice must still be done, don't you think?".

 

Personally, I can respect Anora's choice to betray the Warden if they're going to be that cold-blooded with her father. She never says that her father must live. Just the she'd prefer if he did. At the Landsmeet, you can be as cold-blooded towards Logain as you want, and Anora won't stop you. She knows, deep down, that her father will probably die before he surrenders the regency. But she's not going to go along with a plan that makes her complicit in his unquestioned execution. Just like she won't marry her father's killer, be it the Warden or Alistair. She has a soft spot for him. To me, that's a plus, as that shows that she's not a golem.

 

Still, I had a Warden once who went with the "no question" dialogue and still put her on the throne with Alistair. She betrayed him, he won the Landsmeet anyway, and she still ended up as Queen whether she liked it or not. I always imagined my Warden giving her a self-satisfied smirk after that. The two didn't get along very well.

 

True. Again I never said I didn't understand it. Just was amused when it happened to my Warden who was about to hand her the throne on a silver platter otherwise. Considering any warden who was planning on betraying her despite that would've been all smiles and agree with her til it was too late. (well except Gabriel. Gab just would've told her to screw herself.) I just found it amusing that for her complaining about Alistair's throwing people under the bus to avenge Duncan she was willing to do the same to Fereldan for her father.

 

Though yeah I can see psycho Cousland giving her a slasher smile after that. Particularly when she said she was going to marry Alistair and rule as his queen. lol.

[Wulfram]

Anora's concern is that the nation is secure and stable. To that end, she will do whatever it takes to ensure that happens.

 

If that were true, she'd accept Alistair as King after he gains the backing of the Landsmeet

[Xilizhra]

'For some damned Throne' from your POV, but from Anora's, it was 'To save Ferelden'. Frankly, I can't say I blame her for betraying a Warden who won't support her, either. Let's face it, it's the last card she had to play to make sure she stayed in power. Alistair is a complete unknown, a novice at leading and a person who does not want the throne. Even if he's hardened, he's very iffy on it. Anora, on the other had, has been Queen for a while, and wants it. She certainly understands a political marriage with Alistair, and goes along with it provided he agree.s It's a win-win for everyone except a Warden who's romancing Alistair. And, you know, Alistair himself too.

 

From her POV, putting Alistair on the throne alone is putting all of Ferelden at risk. And frankly, I think she's right. Even my Wardens who took issue with her attitude accepted the fact that with her on their side, the Landsmeet is a slam dunk, and a united Landsmeet means a stronger Ferelden. A political marriage between the two of them is still the most practical option, and one nearly every Warden I have takes.

 

In my opinion, anyone who puts Alistair on the throne by himself is not thinking straight. Anora can only make the throne stronger. There's no logical reason to take her off the throne. Again, in my opinion.

I initially set things up for that to happen, but then Anora refuses after Alistair kills Loghain. So my response is something like "welp, if you won't honor our agreement..."

[Milan92]

I initially set things up for that to happen, but then Anora refuses after Alistair kills Loghain. So my response is something like "welp, if you won't honor our agreement..."

 

Well, would you just marry the person that just killed your father in front of you? I can't really blame Anora on that part.

[Xilizhra]

Well, would you just marry the person that just killed your father in front of you? I can't really blame Anora on that part.

I don't blame her for it precisely, but she has to realize that I have no reason to give her the throne alone after she was the one who broke the agreement.

[Chewin]

If that were true, she'd accept Alistair as King after he gains the backing of the Landsmeet

 

Problem is that she sees him as incompetent for ruling, which is understandable.

[Xilizhra]

Problem is that she sees him as incompetent for ruling, which is understandable.

She doesn't even know Alistair. It's a bit of a stretch to call him definitely incompetent.

[Chewin]

She doesn't even know Alistair. It's a bit of a stretch to call him definitely incompetent.

 

By the little time they spend with each other there is no indication she finds him competent either (and considering she sees herself the only one capable to rule, it is understandable). And I didn't state that she sees him has 'definitely incompetent'.

[Xilizhra]

By the little time they spend with each other there is no indication she finds him competent either (and considering she sees herself the only one capable to rule, it is understandable). And I didn't state that she sees him has 'definitely incompetent'.

I'm sure she's a capable administrator, but from the epilogue slides, it would seem that Alistair is arguably more competent if hardened; he, at least, doesn't cause a food riot.

[Chewin]

I'm sure she's a capable administrator, but from the epilogue slides, it would seem that Alistair is arguably more competent if hardened; he, at least, doesn't cause a food riot.

 

True, if hardened he proves himself more than capable. But that is a if--unhardened it is Anora who rules and if Alistair is sole ruler he let's other do the ruling for him IIRC. Hopefully DAI manages to showcase better than DA2 did with the state of Alistair as King. I am interested to see what direction it goes with him on the seat.

[Wulfram]

Problem is that she sees him as incompetent for ruling, which is understandable.

 

That might justify her actions before she loses at the Landsmeet, but when she's lost all refusing to recognise him does is destabilise the Kingdom.  It's stubborn pride, not pragmatism.

[Chewin]

That might justify her actions before she loses at the Landsmeet, but when she's lost all refusing to recognise him does is destabilise the Kingdom.  It's stubborn pride, not pragmatism.

 

She is thinking of the stabilization of the nation in the longer run. A victory against the Blight might to manage to prosper with him as ruler. Her stubbornness stems from her thinking of being the only person capable of ruling. Also, it wasn't she who lost but Loghain, people will back either Alistair or Anora no matter what.

[TEWR]

I'm sure she's a capable administrator, but from the epilogue slides, it would seem that Alistair is arguably more competent if hardened; he, at least, doesn't cause a food riot.

 

That presumes Anora causes the food riot, rather then the conditions themselves. The Blight destroyed much of the Bannorn and with it a lot of the food supply. As a result, the prices for food would probably skyrocket, to say nothing of the influx of Elven people to Denerim in an Elven origin (which would lead to population issues depending on the amount). When Elves don't make that much to begin with, they're not going to be able to pay the exorbitant fees charged by human merchants who don't give a **** about the Elves.

 

Eventually the Elves riot as a result of this, forcing Anora to put it down as any ruler should (riots are dangerous. You either quell them with force or with intimidation). And we should note that Alistair's epilogue slides don't say they never happen, only that we don't get a mention of it happening. We can't know that it didn't happen. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

And of course, I'm not trying to say the Elves are at fault. But neither is Anora.

[Xilizhra]

That presumes Anora causes the food riot, rather then the conditions themselves. The Blight destroyed much of the Bannorn and with it a lot of the food supply. As a result, the prices for food would probably skyrocket, to say nothing of the influx of Elven people to Denerim in an Elven origin (which would lead to population issues depending on the amount). When Elves don't make that much to begin with, they're not going to be able to pay the exorbitant fees charged by human merchants who don't give a **** about the Elves.

 

Eventually the Elves riot as a result of this, forcing Anora to put it down as any ruler should (riots are dangerous. You either quell them with force or with intimidation). And we should note that Alistair's epilogue slides don't say they never happen, only that we don't get a mention of it happening. We can't know that it didn't happen. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

And of course, I'm not trying to say the Elves are at fault. But neither is Anora.

The Blight didn't even reach the Bannorn until almost the endgame. And while it's true that absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, the clear juxtaposition between the ending slides makes it seem disingenuous to claim that a clear difference wasn't presented there. It's sort of like saying that, once Harrowmont died, his replacement was way better than Bhelen and brought Orzammar into a non-tyrannical golden age; you're inventing an incident for which there was no evidence whatsoever solely to make Alistair look worse.

 

Also, the human riot that results if the CE Warden becomes Alienage bann has no mention of being violently put down, which makes me think that this is less grim necessity and more blatant, racist double standards.

[DuskWanderer]

I think Anora is ruthless, but ultimately in the right. If anything, her problem is her initial narrow-mindedness and her betrayal of Alistair. She can't comprehend sharing power, or that she might need assistance through ministers and such. The fact that she's willing to do a lot says much, but ultimately, she's too willing to write Alistair off until it's shown she is wrong. The fact that she accepts it at the end and thinks "This might actually turn out well" says much to her character, that, while she wants power, she can grow.

 

Her experience would be invaluable to Alistair starting his rule, since she already knows what to do. Once he learns that, the two of them can do the good for Fereldan and be in two places at once (Anora could be in the Bannorn while Alistair remains at Denerim). Also, his popularity and common upbringing brings something that she, as a teyrn's daughter, could never experience.

 

She only betrays you if you're a jerk about Loghain to her (her father. Loghain might be insane and evil, but he's a person and she's known him for her whole life). If you tell her Loghain must face justice, she'll accept it. She won't marry the killer of her father.

 

Her ordering Alistair's execution (before Loghain takes the Joining) is cold-blooded, but if you raise a protest, she backs down immediately. That doesn't stand for much, but it is something

[Spicen]

Hmmm.... belittling others with an implication that one person's beliefs aren't "intelligent". Calling a queen a "sewer rat woman". Charming.

Anora's concern is that the nation is secure and stable. To that end, she will do whatever it takes to ensure that happens. How is that a bad thing? You think politics is simple, that it's all honor and altruism? You'd be a damned fool if you thought something so childishly naive.

At this point in the game, Loghain has curbstomped the Bannorn and has defined his regency by that, but the Landsmeet presents an opponent with just as equal, if not more, standing against Loghain (Eamon and the Warden). Seeing an opportunity and recognizing the discontent among the people, she deliberately goes to Howe's estate not only to find answers, but to subtly manipulate the Warden to her advantage.

Prior to this, she was actively trying to get the Bannorn who were rebelling against the crown (AND WEREN'T EVEN UNITED ENOUGH TO HAVE A CHANCE OF VICTORY) to stand down. She was trying to mediate the field, but the Bannorn didn't even want to listen to her. They thought what she was saying was just Loghain's words.

This is their ****** queen and there's a goddamn Darkspawn invasion on their doorsteps and the Bannorn decides honor and opportunity (read Loghain's codex, it says some nobles took advantage of the vacuum) are more important then unity in the face of a threat.

At this point in time, siding against Loghain can possibly carry with it enough to get her secure on the throne. And she uses it to her advantage. At the same time, she's very much an advocate that Loghain, whatever his crimes, not be killed out of hand. Not only because of him being an asset militarily, but because he's her father.

And Loghain does not hold Anora's actions against her. I fail to see why we should.

From the sound of it, you dont know politicians very well do you? Let me assure you most politicians are sewer rats and they wud do Anything to achieve their goals. In Anora's case, she is ready to sell her father and backstab the warden for the throne. I dont really hate her for that, she is acting like a proper politician. And the whole save the fereldan thing, well she doesnt care as much for the safety of fereldan as she does for the power. She wants the power, nothing else. She is just like howe albeit less treacherous. Yet less people kill her, not howe. Why? Because unlike howe she is a beautiful golden haired barbie- esque woman who you can happen to 'marry' but without being the king.lol.
Do i despise her for selling her own father and slandering the warden? No. Do i despise her for ordering the execution of alistair? No. Do i trust her? No. Why? Because she is a proper politician(aka sewer rat).
And whoever you are, you cud be a politician you know? After all you skillfully put those words in my mouth. I never said to the original poster that he/she was unintelligent.