366 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

Then, how come WoT says in the entry about Par Vollen that "the few outsiders who have seen Qunandar say the city is one of the wonders of the world"? (p84). Or Genitivi actually stating that diplomats from Rivain set foot on Par Vollen and were the first to say that Qunari have females too.

 

Only a few have managed to be there, but there are some.

 

However, it's true that there's no confirmation that Genitivi has been to Par Vollen. What he knows of the place comes from secondary sources. It doesn't mean that he hasn't meet Qunari; in fact, he found shelter in a Qunari community in Rivain in one of his travels.

I would assume that is because that Rivaini aren't considered foreigners.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

They are, but they are considered to be more worthy than the rest of Thedas.

[Mistic]

I would assume that is because that Rivaini aren't considered foreigners.

 

It doesn't explain the "few outsiders" part in WoT.

[EmperorSahlertz]

It doesn't explain the "few outsiders" part in WoT.

/shrug. Few outsiders had seen Qunandar even before the Qunari took over.

[Jackums]

Tevinter and the Old Gods are my favorite parts of the entire Dragon Age series, so I hope there's plenty of new lore on Tevinter in DA:I.

[Ieldra]

I don't think living in Tevinter would be any worse than residing in Ferelden or Orlais. Sure, they have slavery, but so does every other nation in Thedas. The only difference is that it does not receive governmental support outside of Tevinter.

 

Go pretty much anywhere and you will encounter racism, politicking, religious intolerance.

 

I think the nation just gets a bad rep because every historical source has been filtered through the lense of the Chantry, which is intensely hostile to the Black Divine and all things Tevinter.

I agree with this. Though I'm somewhat afraid Bioware is making the viewpoint of the Orlesian Chantry into one taken by the story and being more "correct" than others, and will make Tevinter into a caricature of a nation of evil wizards and do everything to hammer home in the most unsubtle ways that we're supposed to see them as the bad guys. it isn't as if this hasn't happened before.

 

 

 

If Bioware gets around to making a fourth Dragon Age game, I doubt that they will still be using the Frostbite 3 engine. That's assuming, of course, that the developers don't pull another DA 2 and release a sequel to Inquisition within the span of one year.

Why wouldn't they? It's said this engine is very scalable.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I agree with this. Though I'm somewhat afraid Bioware is making the viewpoint of the Orlesian Chantry into one taken by the story and being more "correct" than others, and will make Tevinter into a caricature of a nation of evil wizards and do everything to hammer home in the most unsubtle ways that we're supposed to see them as the bad guys. it isn't as if this hasn't happened before.

 

 

 

Why wouldn't they? It's said this engine is very scalable.

 

Because they are bad guys since first game? It is hardly limited to tevinter pretty much orlais and antiva are almost as much (if not equally) corrupted as tevinter.I disagree with tevinter being smiliar to ferelden it is said that commoners have much more freedom and rights than in places such like orlais.Ferelden is as far most decent country in the setting but still flawed.  

[Samahl]

Ferelden is as far most decent country in the setting but still flawed.  

 

I disagree - Rivain is the best. I cannot rightly express how eager I am to visit (and possibly originate from) Rivain at some point down the line.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I disagree - Rivain is the best. I cannot rightly express how eager I am to visit (and possibly originate from) Rivain at some point down the line.

We can't say that Rivain is the best as we practically can't say nothing about it besides seers and rather lax circles same for nevarra.As long we won't hear about social structure policies and laws we can't tell much.

I rly hope they are closer to ferelden than orlais or tevinter.

[EmperorSahlertz]

We can't say that Rivain is the best as we practically can't say nothing about it besides seers and rather lax circles same for nevarra.As long we won't hear about social structure policies and laws we can't tell much.

I rly hope they are closer to ferelden than orlais or tevinter.

The Rivaini are closer to the Qunari than any other Thedosian country.

[Samahl]

We can't say that Rivain is the best as we practically can't say nothing about it besides seers and rather lax circles same for nevarra.As long we won't hear about social structure policies and laws we can't tell much.

I rly hope they are closer to ferelden than orlais or tevinter.

 

We do actually have some information on Rivain. We know it's:

 

- matriarchal

- not Andrastian

- primarily non-white

- not anti-mage, and in fact, allows mages a good deal more freedom than most places (excluding Tevinter) 

- not anti-elf

- not anti-Qunari, and is majority Qunari (as in viddathari) in Kont-aar

- tight-knit and values community

 

It's not perfect, but it sounds way more interesting than any of the other nations, imo.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The Rivaini are closer to the Qunari than any other Thedosian country.

To be honest i don't know if that is good or bad quality for me.

 

 

We do actually have some information on Rivain. We know it's:

 

- matriarchal

- not Andrastian

- primarily non-white

- not anti-mage, and in fact, allows mages a good deal more freedom than most places (excluding Tevinter) 

- not anti-elf

- not anti-Qunari, and is majority Qunari (as in viddathari) in Kont-aar

- tight-knit and values community

 

It's not perfect, but it sounds way more interesting than any of the other nations, imo.

Well they aren't anti-qunari because many of them belive in qun however , with that not anti-mage i would argue if that is good thing especially that they see abominations as tradition. Then we have to see their politics and treatment of common peoples.But as far outside mages i don't have nothing to them.

[Mistic]

We do actually have some information on Rivain. We know it's:

 

- matriarchal

- not Andrastian

- primarily non-white

- not anti-mage, and in fact, allows mages a good deal more freedom than most places (excluding Tevinter) 

- not anti-elf

- not anti-Qunari, and is majority Qunari (as in viddathari) in Kont-aar

- tight-knit and values community

 

It's not perfect, but it sounds way more interesting than any of the other nations, imo.

 

That's a generalization. What we know is that Rivain is not a monolithic society. The country is very unstable, one step more and it will become a failed state. It has been the scenario of one of the few documented cases of genocide in Thedas (almost causing another Qunari War), it's a refuge for pirates and raiders, and there are tensions between the Andrastian upper-class and the traditional populace. The leaders of the kingdom are actually Andrastian, anti-Qunari and last time we heard of the country Seekers and Templars had just purged the mages in Dairsmuid, effectively putting an end to the compromise they had with the seers.

 

If you were talking about "best" in the sense of "most interesting", I may agree (I have a soft spot for Tevinter in that regard). However, if we're talking about "most decent", I have to agree with TKS. Ferelden is so far the most decent country in Thedas, as far as we know. And Ferelden is not a nice place, so it speaks ill of Thedas in general.

[Samahl]

I think Rivain particularly appeals to me because it defies the archetypal white-dominated, patriarchal, eurocentric medieval fantasy setting that we've seen over and over again, not just in the video game industry, but in other prolific mainstream media. Plus, y'know, for the most part, they have historically treated mages and elves better than most. I know things are getting worse, but I'm still kind of biased, I guess.

[Zatche]

I don't think living in Tevinter would be any worse than residing in Ferelden or Orlais. Sure, they have slavery, but so does every other nation in Thedas. The only difference is that it does not receive governmental support outside of Tevinter.

 

Go pretty much anywhere and you will encounter racism, politicking, religious intolerance.

 

I think the nation just gets a bad rep because every historical source has been filtered through the lense of the Chantry, which is intensely hostile to the Black Divine and all things Tevinter.

 

If Bioware gets around to making a fourth Dragon Age game, I doubt that they will still be using the Frostbite 3 engine. That's assuming, of course, that the developers don't pull another DA 2 and release a sequel to Inquisition within the span of one year.

 

Sure, Ferelden and Orlais are far from perfect societies. I would hate to participate in "The Game," and my first experience with Dragon Age was that of a City Elf. But, the bolded is a pretty significant difference. It's so morally repugnant that I easily consider Tevinter to be the greater of two (well, more than two) evils. I wouldn't want to live in a nation where characters like Danarius hold so much power, but that's also why it seems to me it would have a lot of potential for storytelling and difficult moral decisions.

 

Though, while I do think that Tevinter is, in a sense, the bad guys, and will be continued to be portrayed as such, I do agree with Ieldra on the point that subtlety would serve the setting and the story better. We already know Danarius is evil from what he's done to Fenris. They didn't need to dehumanize him by making him look and sound like an evil caricature.

[Sir DeLoria]

I have a tendency to kill anything remotely allied with the Imperium. Fenris' questline was awesome, killing hundreds of filthy legionaires and corrupt mages.

So yeah, please throw some more at us BW

[Medhia_Nox]

The funniest thing to me - is that people forget that Tevinter revolves around mage-based eugenics. 

 

For that to be appealing - a player "must" believe they would have been born in an advantageous position in Tevinter and THEN played by Tevinter rules.  Of course, all the supporters of Tevinter wouldn't be born in such positions outside of being the main protagonist of a Bioware game.  Chances are far more likely you would be born 1) without magic 2) not being the best in your family at magic 3) not having the mental fortitude to kill your betters to achieve a ranking position.

 

Still, the delusion of being special is a strong one I suppose.

 

As we see - Dorian is a pariah because, while being genetically superior, he is morally inferior (he won't breed).  That special country for mages forced Dorian out of it and turned his family against him.  

 

Great place.

[Mistic]

For that to be appealing - a player "must" believe they would have been born in an advantageous position in Tevinter and THEN played by Tevinter rules.  Of course, all the supporters of Tevinter wouldn't be born in such positions outside of being the main protagonist of a Bioware game.  Chances are far more likely you would be born 1) without magic 2) not being the best in your family at magic 3) not having the mental fortitude to kill your betters to achieve a ranking position.

 

Still, the delusion of being special is a strong one I suppose.

 

Agreed. It doesn't happen just with Tevinter, but with almost every imaginary society in fiction or political theory. People always like to imagine that they will be in the position that benefits most from that system.  It's called the Original Position Fallacy. Asimov explained it perfectly in one conversation with his wife:

 

Mrs. Asimov: How pleasant it would be if only we lived a hundred years ago when it was easy to get servants.

Isaac Asimov: It would be horrible... We'd be the servants.

[HellaciousHutch]

I don

 

Why would you want to destroy Tevinter?

It is now serving the perfect role. Human shield between the Qunari and the more worthy nations of Thedas.

 

Just let the Tevinters die to preserve the way of life of the descendants of the rebels that split the Imperium apart. There is no better punishment.

 

I don't think the Qunari understand that magic is vastly superior to technology, because magic can do everything technology can do, but better, and sometimes, quicker. Who cares if the Qunari have gunpowder, when a magic user can simply cast a ball of fire.

[HellaciousHutch]

Why would you want to destroy Tevinter?

It is now serving the perfect role. Human shield between the Qunari and the more worthy nations of Thedas.

 

Just let the Tevinters die to preserve the way of life of the descendants of the rebels that split the Imperium apart. There is no better punishment.

 

I don't think the Qunari understand that magic is vastly superior to their technology, because, magic can do everything technology can do, and sometimes, even faster. Who cares if they can harness gunpowder, when, a magic user can cast a simple fireball that does more?

[Mistic]

I don't think the Qunari understand that magic is vastly superior to their technology, because, magic can do everything technology can do, and sometimes, even faster. Who cares if they can harness gunpowder, when, a magic user can cast a simple fireball that does more?

 

True, an individual mage can harness more power of destruction than current technology in Thedas. However, there's another thing that we have to take into account.

 

Costs versus results.

 

Magic's results are more awesome in an individual scale. However, they are expensive. Mages are a scarce resource and you need years to train one well enough to have him or her in the field. Meanwhile, although current technology isn't as impressive, it can be replicated and distributed among a large number of normal soldiers, who can be trained in much less time. Also, any possible advance in technology will also be easier to replicate and distribute than any advance in magic.

 

It's nothing new. The crossbow was actually forbidden by the Pope because peasant footsoldiers trained in a short time could easily kill noble knights who spent a lot of time and money to be the elite cavalry forces.

[Medhia_Nox]

A canon is already more technologically advanced than a mage with a fireball.  Even "if" we try to argue that a mage would be able to cast a fireball much further outside a game setting - it still wouldn't come to the range of a canon. 

 

Plus, if you lose a canon - you've lost FAR less resources than if you lose one of these mages.

 

And it's not like the Qunari don't have mages with fireballs AND canons.

[HellaciousHutch]

A canon is already more technologically advanced than a mage with a fireball.  Even "if" we try to argue that a mage would be able to cast a fireball much further outside a game setting - it still wouldn't come to the range of a canon. 

 

Plus, if you lose a canon - you've lost FAR less resources than if you lose one of these mages.

 

And it's not like the Qunari don't have mages with fireballs AND canons.

 

Don't the Qunari treat their mages like garbage though? I mean... They treat them like garbage and hamper their abilities, and they pretty much rely solely on technologies. Not to mention the school of blood magic would disorient the Qunari by taking control of people in their own ranks, and/or destroying their ranks with demons and malevolent spirits being summoned by the more...crazy mages.

 

Heck... The mages and their magic were one of the key factors to pushing out the Qunari when they tried to invade in the past.

[DRTJR]

Danarius is about as evil as Rendon Howe. So ya you're going to have evil nobles, the only difference that Howe could not shoot lightening.

[Pierce Miller]

DeLoria, on 25 Jul 2014 - 10:25 PM, said:

I have a tendency to kill anything remotely allied with the Imperium. Fenris' questline was awesome, killing hundreds of filthy legionaires and corrupt mages.

So yeah, please throw some more at us BW

I handed Fenris over to Danarius, the look on his face was priceless