No, the poster is telling me I shouldn't do it and am just as bad by having to kill enemy characters. That's being judgmental and preachy.
The person is being objective though. You ARE just as ''bad'' ( going to put it in quotes, because it's a meaningless term ). It's more of a beef with what you THINK you do, not what you actually do.
The mindset disturbs me. "Oh, they aren't real people." is the defense usually given, and that same defense was used by actual slavers in human history.
It doesn't matter whether its real people or not, no one should feel like they need to defend themselves either way.
The person is being objective though. You ARE just as ''bad'' ( going to put it in quotes, because it's a meaningless term ). It's more of a beef with what you THINK you do, not what you actually do.
I was just pointing out the hypocrisy in the post. They say they are annoyed by it while doing it themselves.
While I'm not quite the type to revel in it as much as some people here are, I wouldn't mind slaving to be an option in the game. It honestly makes a degree of sense.
We capture some prisoners of war; what do we do with them? We hold them prisoner, but that costs us resources. Men to guard them, food to feed them. We try and hostage them off, but maybe they aren't valued enough. We let them go and they go right back to fighting us. We kill them all, but that's hardly a moral option. We sell them all, which nets us a nice profit to put towards the war effort, but again, immoral.
It's the kind of dilemma I could appreciate being in the game.
The mindset disturbs me. "Oh, they aren't real people." is the defense usually given, and that same defense was used by actual slavers in human history.
And in my opinion there should be a limit in what is acceptable in games, just like everything else.
Well I think that just about everyone approaches NPC's in video games with the mindset of "they aren't real people" and I think that is the only way to approach it. I mean, how can anyone play a video game without that mindset? Isn't that how you justify killing people in video games? You could say that it was in self defense, but I argue that they were scripted to attack and thus you, the player, technically cast the first stone by turning on the game. To me it doesn't matter because they aren't real people, I see them as a means to reach the end of the story that the video game is telling and there can be no good stories without dark acts.
I was just pointing out the hypocrisy in the post. They say they are annoyed by it while doing it themselves.
Pointing out that you are annoyed by something doesn't mean that you think you are better.
Example: ( I'll make a Thedas example, since real life examples get threads locked )
I hate Qunari and their teachings, I will gladly slaughter every single Qunari I get across on sight without a second thought. But do I think that I have better morals than the Qunari or a superior philosophical system to live by? No, not at all. We are just different and we like different things, and we can't get along.
The mindset disturbs me. "Oh, they aren't real people." is the defense usually given, and that same defense was used by actual slavers in human history.
And in my opinion there should be a limit in what is acceptable in games, just like everything else.
But destroying a nation is fine.
But destroying a nation is fine.
Not a nation as in the people or buildings, but as in the system.
Guest_Morrigan_*
I was just pointing out the hypocrisy in the post. They say they are annoyed by it while doing it themselves.
What Kain said.
I have no issue with violence or killing in video games, otherwise I wouldn't be playing Inquisition. I am not "judging" you for playing someone who kills in self defense. I am saying that, from my perspective, I think it is hypocritical to criticize others for wanting to play an evil character when you yourself derive enjoyment from roleplaying violence. Yeah yeah, you do it in self-defense. Whatever.
Not a nation as in the people or buildings, but as in the system.
It doesn't matter what you fight against, you are never right or wrong, you are just simply different.
It doesn't matter what you fight against, you are never right or wrong, you are just simply different.
I disagree entirely. There is right and wrong. Good and bad. For example, raping someone is wrong and bad. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Yeah yeah, you do it in self-defense. Whatever.
- Inquisitor can you get out of my house?
- No sorry, I don't like your way of life, I am not leaving until you do as I say!
- In that case I shall attack!
- Finally, now I can kill you without feeling guilty!
I disagree entirely. There is right and wrong. Good and bad. For example, raping someone is wrong and bad. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
KainD will argue that point. Trust me.
I disagree entirely. There is right and wrong. Good and bad. For example, raping someone is wrong and bad. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
There are no ifs, no ands, no buts and no good and evil.
There are no ifs, no ands, no buts and no good and evil.
To you, perhaps. Granted, we can run around in circles forever with this argument. Everyone's own opinion is valid to him or herself, and I respect that, even if I think you're pretty damn wrong, Kain.
Guest_Morrigan_*
Sasha seems to give the impression that dismantling something as large as the Tevinter government would have only positive consequences for the people of Thedas. Have you thought about the people that live within the Imperium? It provides order, government, structure, fascilitates trade.
You can't just get rid of an existing government and then expect everything to be hunky dory. It's that kind of mentality that led to the mess which we have in Iraq right now. "We can change you for the better! Let us rid you of an oppressive regime!" Yeah, that worked out great.
Granted, we can run around in circles forever with this argument.
I always get into these arguments unintentionally, but it always starts with one and the same thing - someone believes that since they have the ''right'' morals and the ''right'' priorities in game they are the ones that the content should be geared towards first and foremost. And the most sad part is ( for me of course ) that it mostly becomes true, and they do get their content while I am stuck roleplaying something - a character, a story that isn't in sync with my morals and views, but what I play anyway, because I am caught in an exiting universe, the lore of which I want to expand.
Sasha seems to give the impression that dismantling something as large as the Tevinter government would have only positive consequences for the people of Thedas. Have you thought about the people that live within the Imperium? It provides order, government, structure, fascilitates trade.
You can't just get rid of an existing government and then expect everything to be hunky dory. It's that kind of mentality that led to the mess which we have in Iraq right now. "We can change you for the better! Let us rid you of an oppressive regime!" Yeah, that worked out great.
I don't expect it to be only positive, no. When yanking the carpet out from under something, there is a possibility of damage. But, if you pull the carpet out slowly then the object remains safe. With the old system removed, a stronger one can take its place. The transition is hard, but if supported properly and handled carefully it will stand.
For Tevinter specifically, they don't have order since the only times they get along well is when the slaves revolt. They have government and structure, but the negatives like slaves and blood magic are not needed for that. Just look at every other nation in Thedas. And finally for trade, there is more to trade than people. Find a substitute source, there is plenty, and it is no longer needed. The only reason they haven't I suspect is because they haven't looked, kind of a "If it isn't broken, don't fix it." mentality.
Guest_Morrigan_*
I don't expect it to be only positive, no. When yanking the carpet out from under something, there is a possibility of damage. But, if you pull the carpet out slowly then the object remains safe. With the old system removed, a stronger one can take its place. The transition is hard, but if supported properly and handled carefully it will stand.
For Tevinter specifically, they don't have order since the only times they get along well is when the slaves revolt. They have government and structure, but the negatives like slaves and blood magic are not needed for that. Just look at every other nation in Thedas. And finally for trade, there is more to trade than people. Find a substitute source, there is plenty, and it is no longer needed. The only reason they haven't I suspect is because they haven't looked, kind of a "If it isn't broken, don't fix it." mentality.
It sounds like you are talking more about reform than completely dissolving the Imperium. If that's the case, I agree, reform would be a good thing.
Change, though, usually has to come from within. If the Inquisitor or some other protagonist tried to impose it upon Tevinter, I could see that ending in a mess.
It's frustrating that most of our knowledge of Tevinter is filtered through the lense of the Chantry. Every nation in Thedas has it's problems (racism, religious intolerance, bigotry, internecine conflicts, politicking, underground slavery). I don't think Tevinter is really as bad as Brother Gentivi and others make out. Dorian, at any rate, seems to think that the imperium is worth reforming and preserving, rather than dissolving.
It sounds like you are talking more about reform than completely dissolving the Imperium. If that's the case, I agree, reform would be a good thing.
Change, though, usually has to come from within. If the Inquisitor or some other protagonist tried to impose it upon Tevinter, I could see that ending in a mess.
It's frustrating that most of our knowledge of Tevinter is filtered through the lense of the Chantry. Every nation in Thedas has it's problems (racism, religious intolerance, bigotry, internecine conflicts, politicking, underground slavery). I don't think Tevinter is really as bad as Brother Gentivi and others make out. Dorian, at any rate, seems to think that the imperium is worth reforming and preserving, rather than dissolving.
Pretty much. As I said, by destroy I meant the current system, as in being ruled on the backs of slaves and powered by blood magic.
Change I think works best if there is both an internal force and and external one. To use a metaphor, you can make a vase easier if you have a hand outside and inside the clay than if you try one at a time. If solely tried to be fixed from the inside, the system will write them off. If solely from the outside, the system will see it as a threat and harden. It can be done both ways, but change from within powered by assistance from outside, or change from outside but with the blessing of those within, will succeed much more likely.
And to be fair, most people we've met from Tevinter do not help disprove what their political enemies say, to the point where even Brother Genetivi who is used in World of Thedas a lot because he is written to be mostly impartial sees them in a negative light. As for Dorian, remember he is an outsider for wanting to restore Tevinter's honor instead of continue the way Tevinter has. He's a good example of the "solely from the inside" example I gave.
It sounds like you are talking more about reform than completely dissolving the Imperium. If that's the case, I agree, reform would be a good thing.
Change, though, usually has to come from within. If the Inquisitor or some other protagonist tried to impose it upon Tevinter, I could see that ending in a mess.
It's frustrating that most of our knowledge of Tevinter is filtered through the lense of the Chantry. Every nation in Thedas has it's problems (racism, religious intolerance, bigotry, internecine conflicts, politicking, underground slavery). I don't think Tevinter is really as bad as Brother Gentivi and others make out. Dorian, at any rate, seems to think that the imperium is worth reforming and preserving, rather than dissolving.
I agree, I think Tevinter is no worse than all the other nations in Thedas. It has bad aspects and good like everywhere else. I think the fact that it is the longest running nation in Thedas to me shows it can't all be that bad to still be around for this long. Tevinter is definitely alot more complicated than we've been shown so far, so I hope we can finally visit the place in the next game.
I agree, I think Tevinter is no worse than all the other nations in Thedas. It has bad aspects and good like everywhere else. I think the fact that it is the longest running nation in Thedas to me shows it can't all be that bad to still be around for this long. Tevinter is definitely alot more complicated than we've been shown so far, so I hope is that we can finally visit the place in the next game.
Actually, I think the Dwarven kingdom is the longest running nation in Thedas.
@KainD, @Morrigan, @Vroom Vroom and the likes - I don't think Dorian would agree with you in his views of Tevinter, no matter how much do you crave for a 'magister's' perspective. Remember, that he's got exiled exactly for his POV and wants to change the way Tevinter are. So I guess you'll be out of luck once again 
All the same, being the one to topple Minrathous, the one city in Thedas that has never fallen. Not to the Blight. Not to the Exalted Marches. Not to the Qunari Invasion.
Being the one to bring that down? Sign me up.
I agree, I think Tevinter is no worse than all the other nations in Thedas. It has bad aspects and good like everywhere else. I think the fact that it is the longest running nation in Thedas to me shows it can't all be that bad to still be around for this long. Tevinter is definitely alot more complicated than we've been shown so far, so I hope we can finally visit the place in the next game.
Do i have you about castes system in orzammar that something survived doesn't mean it isn't bad in fact tevinter to that very moment is most corrupted and vile country in the setting.So i would argue that it is no worse than all other nations.
Defence of tevinter here reminds me defence of orlais on this forum where peoples say it was only ferelden propaganda despite we heard that from orlesians as well.
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