I'd like to see how'd you talk your way out of rape, not being intrinsically bad, for example. Genuinely curious, maybe you'd open me a whole new world.
If I was personally raped I wouldn't judge a person that did it. It would be extremely unpleasant and I would probably try and kill that person, but I wouldn't claim any moral ground, wouldn't think that what they did was ''evil'', it would just be something that I personally don't like.
Maevetanis-male(secretly, he considerate and try to show himself as female and even had a dwarf husband who was a Varrick cousin) human mage, third magister what we see and for some reason he is a member of senat(i think he became one because of his dwarven husband, because dwarves is the part of senat) who do some political sh*t with Alister and Varric and only that Titus was show himself as dragon worshiper save him
Maevaris is female. Her being trans does not make her any less so. Please don't misgender her.
I am very tempted to post something like "in before the Lock" at this Point. There are already two Topics active that are derailing the Thread while also being highly divisive and offensive to some People.
he is male and always would be male no matter what he prefers to think and what clothes he wear
This is about as accurate as saying that the moon is a star because it's a big light in the sky at night.
This is about as accurate as saying that the moon is a star because it's a big light in the sky at night.
nope it is not 
...this analogy about the "moon is a star" is more about calling Mae as a female because he said that, like mens and wear female clothes
he is male and always would be male no matter what he prefers to think and what clothes he wear
Lol
nope it is not
Well, I'm not the one you have to convince that you're not being senselessly bigoted.
But we're not trying to answer that question. We're trying to figure out if, from a human perspective, crimes such as slavery and rape are wrong. The fact that morality only exists within the scope of humanity is a red herring.
No we're not debating that. Nobody here was advocating slavery nor even denying that it's fundamentally undesirable, and those here who like Tevinter don't do that because it has slavery, but in spite of it. Meanwhile, some of the moral absolutists here suggest we shouldn't like Tevinter because of its flaws, disregarding that a culture is not defined only by its flaws. If it were that, I would be unable to like any existing real-world cultures because they all have flaws significant enough to warrant criticism of these cultures as a whole.
Also, I would like to point out that our moral judgments exist in a temporal and cultural framework. The cultures of the past have made different basic assumptions about life, and future cultures will make still different ones, resulting in different moral judgments. Whatever we think of the cultures of the past now, their perspective was just as much within the human scope as ours. Future cultures may define some of our present habits as barbaric and cruel. Are they justified in condemning us? Defining your perspective as the only reasonable human one speaks to me of incredible arrogance.
My personal perspective of Tevinter is informed by the fact that I appreciate all attempts of humans and humanity as a species to gain more control of their own fate. That requires acquiring knowledge and power, both as a species and as individuals, often against the strictures religious or collectivist thinking would impose on us. I admire Tevinter culture for embodying that within the scope of Thedas as a fictional world, even while I despise the fact that the benefits of such thinking are so unequally distributed. Bioware's worlds have an unfortunate tendency to marry knowledge to evil. I do not accept the implicit presupposition therein. Give me a culture that embraces exploring the unknown and gaining control over our fates against the strictures of religious and collectivist thinking without being accompanied by evil, and I'll be there in a moment. However, I would rather be associated with evil than to accept ignorance and powerlessness as a virtue.
This again. Why can't Asdrubael consider Mae a male if that fits their personal definition of a male? People do have different understandings of what it means to be a male or a female.
Because that doesn't matter a damn. All that does is the personal definition of the transsexual in question.
Because that doesn't matter a damn. All that does is the personal definition of the transsexual in question.
No we're not debating that. Nobody here was advocating slavery nor even denying that it's fundamentally undesirable, and those here who like Tevinter don't do that because it has slavery, but in spite of it.
The discussion began with KainD expressing disappointment over being unable to approve of/enact slavery in-game. Sasha took issue with that, referring to slavery as "one of the worsts things one can do to another person" and that "there should be a limit in what is acceptable in games". KainD, being the staunch moral relativist that he is, said the following:
It's a shame people are self righteous and split actions into right and wrong.
...and then the rest of this conversation happened. Morality comes along with being human, so yes, it makes sense and is natural for us as humans to "split actions into right and wrong". That's why the whole "morality is subjective (and therefore meaningless)" argument is pretty pointless, and as I said before, a red herring.
I'm not going to bother with the rest of your post, because it don't apply to me or my views.
The discussion began with KainD expressing disappointment over being unable to approve of/enact slavery in-game. Sasha took issue with that, referring to slavery as "one of the worsts things one can do to another person" and that "there should be a limit in what is acceptable in games". KainD, being the staunch moral relativist that he is, said the following:
...and then the rest of this conversation happened. Morality comes along with being human, so yes, it makes sense and is natural for us as humans to "split actions into right and wrong". That's why the whole "morality is subjective (and therefore meaningless)" argument is pretty pointless, and as I said before, a red herring.
I'm not going to bother with the rest of your post, because it don't apply to me or my views.
Wait so im not human? 
Wait so im not human?
I doubt you completely lack morality. Taking a moral relativist stance is not the same thing as not having moral standards/values, which are usually felt rather than reasoned.
Ok, so if I feel that I am a God, should people respect that and refer to me as such?
Well, billions of people would say yes...
But that aside, it's an issue of inherent physiological identity; the brain was in a certain configuration before the body developed incorrectly.
Everyone's worried about the moral implications and I'm just sitting here hoping for the game to end with Paul Heyman coming out and saying;
"Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Paul Heyman, and my client, [INSERT PC'S NAME/TITLE], conquered the city of Minrathous!"
I doubt you completely lack morality. Taking a moral relativist stance is not the same thing as not having moral standards/values, which are usually felt rather than reasoned.
Well to be honest i don't for me it is rather pointless restriction.
Guest_Morrigan_*
I suppose I get frustrated with the depiction of Tevinter in game because it strikes me as bad writing. Bioware is always boasting that they present the player with complex moral decisions, gray morality, and dilemmas that force you to think about what is right and what is wrong. Tevinter has all the subtelty of a sledge hammer to the face.
Eye haz evulz + mee killz u!!! *stomp stomp stomp* (insert obligatory montage of blood mages going apeshit and causing mayhem).
I suppose I get frustrated with the depiction of Tevinter in game because it strikes me as bad writing. Bioware is always boasting that they present the player with complex moral decisions, gray morality, and dilemmas that force you to think about what is right and what is wrong. Tevinter has all the subtelty of a sledge hammer to the face.
Eye haz evulz + mee killz u!!! *stomp stomp stomp* (insert obligatory montage of blood mages going apeshit and causing mayhem).
Well you have complex moral decisions you are forced to choose between 1 psycho and another. 
Well to be honest i don't for me it is rather pointless restriction.
So you would have no problems committing murder? In real life, not video games?
So you would have no problems committing murder? In real life, not video games?
If i could get away with it and had benefit in it don't see a problem.
If i could get away with it and had benefit in it don't see problem.
...All right... I mean, I guess people who lack empathy won't have morals, and they're no less human, but it's certainly atypical.
...All right... I mean, I guess people who lack empathy won't have morals, and they're no less human, but it's certainly atypical.
Empathy or not peoples were and still kill others for various reasons if you think about it there is good reason why laws exist in society and they are enforced.
Guest_Morrigan_*
If i could get away with it and had benefit in it don't see a problem.
Okay, that is seriously disturbing.
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