293 réponses à ce sujet

[Pierce Miller]

I saw people discussing this a little in another thread but I'd like to shine a light on it if possible. During the DAI demo we see the Inquisitor try to tell Leliana to let go of the Magister's son, she doesn't comply and proceeds to slit his throat. She defied direct orders, now I know we won't be able to execute her for this but some punishment must be possible? Otherwise we're impotent leaders and deserve no respect. An Inquisition needs a leader that rules with an iron fist.

[LobselVith8]

I saw people discussing this a little in another thread but I'd like to shine a light on it if possible. During the DAI demo we see the Inquisitor try to tell Leliana to let go of the Magister's son, she doesn't comply and proceeds to slit his throat. She defied direct orders, now I know we won't be able to execute her for this but some punishment must be possible? Otherwise we're impotent leaders and deserve no respect. An Inquisition needs a leader that rules with an iron fist.

 

That's an excellent point. How exactly is the Inquisitor going to deal with insubordination when the advisers, or anyone who is a member of the Inquisition, is openly defying orders, especially at a time of crisis like the Breach? I suppose some of the soldiers could be dealt with much more severely, but the advisers are apparently plot-protected, so that seems to be a serious issue.

[Pierce Miller]

That's an excellent point. How exactly is the Inquisitor going to deal with insubordination when the advisers, or anyone who is a member of the Inquisition, is openly defying orders, especially at a time of crisis like the Breach? I suppose some of the soldiers could be dealt with much more severely, but the advisers are apparently plot-protected, so that seems to be a serious issue.

I simply hope there is something more than anger involved otherwise what is stopping the rest of our troops from doing whatever they please?

[Clockwork_Wings]

There were multiple options like in DA2.  Perhaps a certain temperament or certain dialog gets her to stop?

[Pierce Miller]

There were multiple options like in DA2.  Perhaps a certain temperament or certain dialog gets her to stop?

Now I wish I had a picture of that particular moment from the demo

[Clockwork_Wings]

Now I wish I had a picture of that particular moment from the demo

It seemed to me one said for Leliana to do it, one said not to, one may have been a temperament option, and one gave Leliana a little more judgement. Although two of those options looked similar to me.

[Icy Magebane]

There were multiple options like in DA2.  Perhaps a certain temperament or certain dialog gets her to stop?

I'm sort of hoping that this is the case, but that still doesn't seem satisfying.  On the one hand, Leliana disobeys the Inquisitor for some reason in at least one instance.  That's pretty bad by itself, but there may be some type of punishment option in the future.  I don't know.  On the other hand, the idea that your troops won't listen unless you have a particular personality type is equally jarring... since we have no reason to believe that we will be able to punish her, and since the devs have said that the advisors won't leave, it seems like this is just something that you are just going to have to overlook.  It creates this odd dynamic of power where the Inquisitor feels more like the main field commander but is otherwise a single voice among four leaders who share power?  I don't know... it's easy to read what we want into this because we have so little information, but I don't think I'm going to like the answer when it comes.

[LobselVith8]

I simply hope there is something more than anger involved otherwise what is stopping the rest of our troops from doing whatever they please?

 

This was even part of Awakening, where ordinary people would riot or soldiers would defect if the wrong choices were made by the Commander of the Grey. A good leader needs to be in control, or else you risk losing control of the people under your command.

[Hellion Rex]

This was even part of Awakening, where ordinary people would riot or soldiers would defect if the wrong choices were made by the Commander of the Grey. A good leader needs to be in control, or else you risk losing control of the people under your command.

That is one aspect I liked of being ruler of Vigil's Keep. Hopefully we have a lot of options on how to deal with insubordination.

[Magdalena11]

I can totally get where Leliana is coming from on this one.  The boy has been dead for a very long time. I won't hate her for disobeying me if I tell her to prolong a travesty of life.  That having been said, I hope approval works both ways this time.

[J-Reyno]

From what I remember there was no order given for Leliana to let him go.  There was a dialogue to tell Leliana to stop, but the presenter did not choose it.  Instead he chose a different option which had the Inquisitor try to bargain with Alexius, requesting the amulet in exchange for his son.  Alexius refused or tried to bargain in return... either way he did not comply... and Leliana slit his son's throat.

 

No way of knowing what she would have done if she'd been ordered to let him go.  I'd assume we can reprimand our advisors and companions, though.

[Hellion Rex]

^I believe there was an option to say "Release him, Leliana."

[TheKomandorShepard]

From what I remember there was no order given for Leliana to let him go.  There was a dialogue to tell Leliana to stop, but the presenter did not choose it.  Instead he chose a different option which had the Inquisitor try to bargain with Alexius, requesting the amulet in exchange for his son.  Alexius refused or tried to bargain in return... either way he did not comply... and Leliana slit his son's throat.

 

No way of knowing what she would have done if she'd been ordered to let him go.  I'd assume we can reprimand our advisors and companions, though.

He said he will do everything they want then she went nuts and said "i want world back" and killed him pretty much disobedience when inq tried make deal with him.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

^I believe there was an option to say "Release him, Leliana."

There was. Bottom Left. Where the Intimidate option from Mass Effect would be. 

[Pierce Miller]

The idea that one of our "advisors" can simply refuse one of our direct orders just doesn't make me feel like a leader in the slightest.

[Clockwork_Wings]

Give me the amulet.

Release him, Leliana.

Give him a merciful death.

 

The inqunisitor asks for the amulet, not Felix.

[Icy Magebane]

He said he will do everything they want then she went nuts and said "i want world back" and killed him pretty much disobedience when inq tried make deal with him.

Exactly.  "Give me the amulet" makes me think that we're about to negotiate, but before anyone can react, Leliana immediately kills the hostage and forces us into combat...

[Magdalena11]

Not knowing the situation makes it a little harder to call, but I think I know enough to believe that that particular killing was not only justified, but mandatory.  I would have probably chosen the option to ask her if there was an option like that, which I really wasn't paying attention to.  Or I would have done it myself.  No one deserves to live a half-life.  I think it would be better to be done and on to something new.

 

I'm cool with my companions having their own lives and agendas, it's one of the things I'm looking forward to the most about the game.  Put in simple terms:  I don't care what the companions do.  Don't even try to tell me what I did.

[SerCambria358]

I can totally get where Leliana is coming from on this one.  The boy has been dead for a very long time. I won't hate her for disobeying me if I tell her to prolong a travesty of life.  That having been said, I hope approval works both ways this time.

You're missing the point, it doesnt matter what you or I consider morally good or bad because many will disagree on that. Because of this, we should be given the choice to punish her for disobeying a direct order from a superior individual. For some this blatant disregard is unacceptable, for some its not an issue, and for someone like youself, you completely agree.

 

Due to this, we should be given the option to handle this in different ways, not just accept her disregard because you personally think it was acceptable 

[Icy Magebane]

Not knowing the situation makes it a little harder to call, but I think I know enough to believe that that particular killing was not only justified, but mandatory.  I would have probably chosen the option to ask her if there was an option like that, which I really wasn't paying attention to.  Or I would have done it myself.  No one deserves to live a half-life.  I think it would be better to be done and on to something new.

 

I'm cool with my companions having their own lives and agendas, it's one of the things I'm looking forward to the most about the game.  Put in simple terms:  I don't care what the companions do.  Don't even try to tell me what I did.

See, now we're going to have to disagree.  How can any military force work properly if the chain of command is ignored?  Or maybe there was never one to begin with, and the idea that the Inquisitor is a "leader" is some kind of marketing gimmick?  There's no point in attempting to formulate strategies, even diplomatic ones, if there's a high probability that your team is just going to do whatever they want if they feel like it...  That kind of thing should be very rare and severely punished when it happens.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Why do I get the feeling this will devolve into something like "We should be able to torture/execute/etc" threads? 

[Urazz]

It really depends on the level of the insubordination, the state of mind of the character doing the insubordination, and the reason why.

 

For example, in the demo where Leliana killed that magister's zombie son, if she does it regardless of what I say then I'll be a bit more forgiving of her about it since she just went through a traumatizing experience of being tortured.

[J-Reyno]

He said he will do everything they want then she went nuts and said "i want world back" and killed him pretty much disobedience when inq tried make deal with him.

He said that before the Inquisitor's request, which was to hand over the amulet before they let Felix go.  After the request he then asked them to let Felix go, saying they would get what they want.  He did not do what was asked and tried to bargain on his own terms.  She also did not go "nuts", she ended what could have become a pointless back-and-forth.

 

Now at this point the Inquisitor may be able to say "I was negotiating Leliana" to which I hope she tells the Inquisitor that they were naive for expecting that to get anywhere.  It's up to interpretation at that point, and no one knows.  Whatever the response is and actions available, everyone will just have to deal with it.  You may also wait to find out what happens if she is commanded to let him go.

[Ryzaki]

Yeah I'm not fond of the whole plot shield completely ignore what you say but it's k cause plot shield crap. That's just aggravating. It's one thing if the characters are supposed to be equals but in ME and Inquisition...that's not really going to make much sense.

[Pierce Miller]

To be fair, execution or exile are the only two options that seem viable to me and yet we know that'll be impossible because advisors can't leave