293 réponses à ce sujet

[Basement Cat]

I think a lot of the acceptance of Leliana's disobedience stems from peoples' assumption that everything will work out no matter what the companions do.  Maybe they're right about that, since this is a Bioware game and we know how things work.  Realistically, however, the chain of command exists to be followed.  If individual soldiers are left to formulate their own plans during operations, then leaders, ranks, strategy, and tactics serve no purpose.

You essentially get a mob scene. 

 

Still, it's hard to make a call because we have no idea what leads up to this situation or how detailed the character interactions are.

[BobZilla84]

I know the situation can be avoided all around but the point is still valid Leliana killed the boy without being given the order to do so. And this can take place both Midgame or Lategame so you should be established as the leader of The Inquistion by then so the whole earn your position argument pulls a Revan it vanishes.

 

We will have to wait and see but we can put our boots to the A**** of our companions for disobedience but not our Advisors great just freaking great.

[Milan92]

When the whole power belongs to one person it is an absolute monarchy
Prove that the Inquisitor is royal, otherwise, accept that people don't owe you anything and your partners have minds and will of their own

 

What does royalty have to do with any of this?

 

Are you suggesting that soldiers owe their king/queen everything, but not their generals or any of their other superiors?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I know the situation can be avoided all around but the point is still valid Leliana killed the boy without being given the order to do so. And this can take place both Midgame or Lategame so you should be established as the leader of The Inquistion by then so the whole earn your position argument pulls a Revan it vanishes.

 

We will have to wait and see but we can put our boots to the A**** of our companions for disobedience but not our Advisors great just freaking great.

The Inquisitor never ordered her not to kill Felix. Should she wait to get an okay before killing faceless enemy NPCs attacking her too? 

[EmperorSahlertz]

What does royalty have to do with any of this?

 

Are you suggesting that soldiers owe their king/queen everything, but not their generals or any of their other superiors?

The point is that the Inquisitor may not be a superior officer to Lelianna. The fact that it is a paramilitary organization (ie. not an ACTUAL military organization), would suggest that members are free to exhibit free will.

[Milan92]

The point is that the Inquisitor may not be a superior officer to Lelianna. The fact that it is a paramilitary organization (ie. not an ACTUAL military organization), would suggest that members are free to exhibit free will.

 

Oh, I see.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The point is that the Inquisitor may not be a superior officer to Lelianna. The fact that it is a paramilitary organization (ie. not an ACTUAL military organization), would suggest that members are free to exhibit free will.

That is very well said. The Inquisition is not a military, it is a paramilitary organization. 

[BobZilla84]

The Inquisitor never ordered her not to kill Felix. Should she wait to get an okay before killing faceless enemy NPCs attacking her too? 

@Sasha

Leliana had a dagger at Felix's throat he was not attacking anyone.

[Icy Magebane]

The Inquisitor never ordered her not to kill Felix. Should she wait to get an okay before killing faceless enemy NPCs attacking her too? 

That's obviously an unfair comparison because being in combat is different from being in negotiations that may or may not lead to combat...  the person who is responsible for getting everyone back to base safely shouldn't need to worry about their allies independently making decisions based on stress, personal bias, or other such factors.  I'd be more willing to accept this if she seemed fearful and panicked... from that demo she just did what she wanted, as if the Inquisitor isn't actually her superior.

[Hazegurl]

Being a paramilitary organization doesn't mean I have to like every choice the other leaders make and should be left powerless to do anything about it. If one of my "advisors" continue to do what I believe isn't the best for the organization I should be able to do something about that. if the game is truly about consequences then I'll gladly deal with whatever may arise from taking action against them. Otherwise the whole "rise to power" marketing campaign is meaningless.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

@Sasha

Leliana had a dagger at Felix's throat he was not attacking anyone.

The moment she released him, Alexius and Felix would have attacked. If you think different, you're fooling yourself. She literally does you a favor by halving the number of enemy combatants. 

[Ceoldoren]

The moment she released him, Alexius and Felix would have attacked. If you think different, you're fooling yourself. She literally does you a favor by halving the number of enemy combatants. 

That's not really the point is it ? Whether killing him or not killing him is the right choice is not really what we're discussing.

[Icy Magebane]

The moment she released him, Alexius and Felix would have attacked. If you think different, you're fooling yourself. She literally does you a favor by halving the number of enemy combatants. 

That isn't the point.  The point is that Leliana acted independently of whatever strategy the field commander had in mind and thus should be punished after the mission.  I also found it odd that the Inquisitor just stood there and watched, raising no objection, or even seeming to care that she dictated the sequence of events... this, combined with Leliana's overall behavior suggests that the Inquisitor isn't actually in charge of anything, rather that the power structure is more democratic.  Power may actually be shared equally between the advisors, making the Inquisitor the fourth advisor... odd that they would use such a title, but you see my point, I'm sure... maybe by "leader," the marketing execs really just mean "field commander..."  If that's the case then what we've been told up to this point has been rather misleading...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That's not really the point is it ? Whether killing him or not killing him is the right choice is not really what we're discussing.

No, we are discussing following orders. She was never given the order to not kill Felix. Therefore people shouldn't be upset with her that she does. 

[The Baconer]

The characters in game should not be expected to understand our modern worldviews. That means the general public. The PCs on the other hand are our avatars, and can bend those rules as we desire. What shouldn't be expected is for the rest of Thedas to understand, let alone do the same as our PCs.

 

That doesn't really hold water. Whether or not our PCs are avatars is entirely up to the player. My first and "canon" Inquisitor is sure as hell not going to be one.

[Ophir147]

This is the worst punishment I can think of, tbh.

 

I'd be seriously disappointed if Leliana cared so much about what I think of her that expressing disappointment in her actions would be worse than anything you could imagine.

 

Like coating her in pitch, lighting her on fire, and throwing her into the Grand Canyon. If Joshua Graham could survive, I don't know why Leliana wouldn't be able to (with her plot armor and all). If she shows back up at Skyhold then I'll give her a promotion and all is forgiven

[Pierce Miller]

The Inquisitor never ordered her not to kill Felix. Should she wait to get an okay before killing faceless enemy NPCs attacking her too? 

That's defence an entirely different situation, if she interrupts moments of diplomacy then she is a threat to the Inquisition.

[Former_Fiend]

The point is that the Inquisitor may not be a superior officer to Lelianna. The fact that it is a paramilitary organization (ie. not an ACTUAL military organization), would suggest that members are free to exhibit free will.

 

Paramilitary organizations retain chain of command and disciplinary measures for insubordination. Not nearly as harsh as actual military measures(unless it's the kind of organization that has significantly harsher punishments), but in any type of military outfit, command needs to be respected. 

[LOLandStuff]

That's like slaughtering every NPC in the game just to make sure they wouldn't attack you.

 

She knows her job comes with some risks, she shouldn't let her feelings  get in the way. From my point of view, she acted unprofessionally. And even if that poor chump was dead, it wasn't her call to put him out of his misery. His daddy was willing to negotiate as soon as he saw the knife at his throat.

[Dabrikishaw]

This will get annoying quick if our underlings start ignoring orders and it ends up affecting the game negatively in some way. It could end iup being completely arbitrary.

[Pierce Miller]

That's like slaughtering every NPC in the game just to make sure they wouldn't attack you.

 

She knows her job comes with some risks, she shouldn't let her feelings  get in the way. From my point of view, she acted unprofessionally. And even if that poor chump was dead, it wasn't her call to put him out of his misery. His daddy was willing to negotiate as soon as he saw the knife at his throat.

I know we won't be able to fire or execute her but some form of punishment is definitely in order, the inquisition is the most important organisation in thedas right now and they cannot afford to mess up therefore the Leader must have absolute control of his/her underlings otherwise he's not a leader he's just a glorified advisor.

[Basement Cat]

The moment she released him, Alexius and Felix would have attacked. If you think different, you're fooling yourself. She literally does you a favor by halving the number of enemy combatants. 

How do you know? Alexius was not attacking or being threatening when she got to Felix.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How do you know? Alexius was not attacking or being threatening when she got to Felix.

Because it's a video game, and he is a dungeon boss. 

[Hazegurl]

No, we are discussing following orders. She was never given the order to not kill Felix. Therefore people shouldn't be upset with her that she does. 

Your arguments are coming across in a fallacious manner. You have no idea if they would have taken the deal or attacked anyway and you have no idea if her actions were for the best.  Making the claim that she didn't get the order to not kill him equals there were no orders to follow from the start is ridiculous. The Inquisitor flat out said "Give me the Amulet and we'll give you your son" A deal was in the middle of taking place and Leilana took it upon herself to kill him and she did it out of malice.

[Xilizhra]

The Inquisitor never ordered her not to kill Felix. Should she wait to get an okay before killing faceless enemy NPCs attacking her too? 

Felix wasn't attacking.