So, question: how would your reaction differ if the Inquisitor did choose the direct order for Leliana to release Felix, and she still killed him?
He might have attacked you? Better kill him then than have him jump you and gnaw at your ankle. It makes perfect sense.
It's like running over your neighbor's idiot chihuahua because he barks and runs around you. You never know when he might bite. They do have those razor sharp teeth, so better prevent that.
Hm... it's interesting that you'd actually agree with the Sebastian example. I think that level of acceptance would be rare among players, but I'm willing to take your word on it. As I'm reading this, however, you seem to be contradicting yourself.
You claim that you want more depth and independence, yet you are not in favor of someone, such as Fenris, acting according to his ideals outside of situations involving potentially hostile antagonists... Do you recall the mission where Anders/Justice attempted to kill a mage after the party saved her from Ser Ulric? Does it make any sense that Fenris would stand there and wait for you to talk Anders down rather than simply put a greatsword through his back? You see the problem with your stance? Fenris is merely an adventurer and is not beholden to Hawke in any way, yet he is expected to wait for Hawke to pacify an abomination that he knows, hates, and mistrusts, while a young girl's life is at stake. On the other hand, Leliana, a member of an organized group that employs some type of command structure is free to act according to her whims in a situation that could potentially lead to everyone being massacred?
The Anders example you used would be another I wouldn't blame the character for doing what they did. He was saving an innocent girl's life. For that brief moment, Anders wasn't the Anders we knew but an abomination. He was able to get back under control if you say the right things but I wouldn't blame Fenris for not knowing that.
And the cashier is to follow store policy, which is dictated by their superiors. If they decide to act in a manner that breaks said policy, they should expect to be reprimanded in some fashion.
I really don't see how this could be any clearer. I think that at this point some of us seem to disagree over who is really in charge and how much power the Inquisitor actually has.
So all she did was the pragmatic thing to do for us and the merciful thing to do for Felix.
How is it pragmatic? At that time, having Felix at knifepoint was the only thing keeping Alexius, a powerful Magister, compliant. When she kills Felix, Alexius becomes a cornered animal with nothing left to lose, and he still has the amulet.
I really don't see how this could be any clearer. I think that at this point some of us seem to disagree over who is really in charge and how much power the Inquisitor actually has.
You're supposed to be the leader of the Inquisition that'd mean you would hold the most power unless we've been misled
For me, it wasn't so much Leliana's action as the fallout it caused. As a result of the protracted fight, Iron Bull and Sera both got brutally demolished by a horde of undead, and we're left to assume that Leliana got her neck snapped before Dorian and the Inquisitor hit 88 MPH in their amulet DeLorean and hopped through the Rift or whatever.
Considering that the outcome can be traced back pretty definitively to Leliana forcing the fight, that's a big deal (since it wound up costing the Inquisition 2 valuable members and possibly an advisor, assuming a miracle resurrection isn't in the cards).
Now, there's no way of knowing whether or not the fight with Alexius was inevitable. For the sake of the scenario, and to avoid DA2 flashbacks, I'm assuming it wasn't.
How is it pragmatic? At that time, having Felix at knifepoint was the only thing keeping Alexius, a powerful Magister, compliant. When she kills Felix, Alexius becomes a cornered animal with nothing left to lose, and he still has the amulet.
It looked like petty revenge to me. Taking it waaay too personally.
How is it pragmatic? At that time, having Felix at knifepoint was the only thing keeping Alexius, a powerful Magister, compliant. When she kills Felix, Alexius becomes a cornered animal with nothing left to lose, and he still has the amulet.
If she killed Felix then what's stopping the Inquisitor from killing Alexius and taking the amulet off his corpse?
How is it pragmatic? At that time, having Felix at knifepoint was the only thing keeping Alexius, a powerful Magister, compliant. When she kills Felix, he becomes a cornered animal with nothing left to lose, and he still has the amulet.
This not to mention as i said if negotations failed pretty much outcome would be the same as in scenario where she kills him and that worst case scenario if negotiations were successful we would gain help from guy that know what is going on in best scecnario.
Also it isn't point point was she ignored inq and risked life of entire team and success of the mission because she was mad pretty much shows she can't be in her position anymore and that there should be option to punish her in some way proper to military organisation.
If she killed Felix then what's stopping the Inquisitor from killing Alexius and taking the amulet off his corpse?
Clearly, Alexius would be stopping us from simply killing Alexius and taking the amulet off of his corpse, given the prolonged boss fight that follows.
So, at what point did she gain a doctorate in Undead Medicine from the University of Minrathous? What makes her qualified to determine what's a mercy for Felix or not, especially without any sort of examination?
As for the rest, it's not pragmatic at all to turn a fight with an unknown probability of occurring into a certainty, especially when the person we're dealing with presumably knows quite a bit about the Breach. He may be a mass murderer, sure, but so was Bhelen, and he worked out pretty well.
It doesn't take a genius to realize the guy with rotting skin is either dead or in extreme unpleasantness if alive. And one of the three options given was "Give him a merciful death". Especially since Dorian, the man who knows them and has knowledge of necromancy, is shocked and appalled at what Alexius did to his son, so if you want an expert's opinion there you go.
It is pragmatic to half your enemies fighting strength. Plus this is the character who went to spy on them for us. She has much more knowledge on how trustworthy Alexius is than we do.
Well, whether he would have given us the amulet or not if the son was spared... Doesn't really matter. The end result is the same; we have the amulet. It's not like Leliana MASSIVELY screwed the mission over. It wasn't like she started World War 8 with her actions; we just had to fight him to get the amulet. He could have given us the amulet when we handed his son over, but he could have also attacked us. Whether we spared his son or not doesn't seem to matter, since we still produced the desired end result. I'm not going to lose a night of sleep over her disobeying orders yet not obstructing the mission in any way.
Clearly, Alexius would be stopping us from simply killing Alexius and taking the amulet off of his corpse, given the prolonged boss fight that follows.
Either way the Inquisitor acquires the amulet in both situations.One simply deals with the potential threat immediately.
For me, it wasn't so much Leliana's action as the fallout it caused. As a result of the protracted fight, Iron Bull and Sera both got brutally demolished by a horde of undead, and we're left to assume that Leliana got her neck snapped before Dorian and the Inquisitor hit 88 MPH in their amulet DeLorean and hopped through the Rift or whatever.
Considering that the outcome can be traced back pretty definitively to Leliana forcing the fight, that's a big deal (since it wound up costing the Inquisition 2 valuable members and possibly an advisor, assuming a miracle resurrection isn't in the cards).
Now, there's no way of knowing whether or not the fight with Alexius was inevitable. For the sake of the scenario, and to avoid DA2 flashbacks, I'm assuming it wasn't.
Actually, if all of that mayhem really happens and doesn't get magically undone... and Leliana's decision to do what she wanted was the result of an ongoing conflict between her and the Inquisitor, yet the player still decided to send her on this mission even in the face of alternatives... I'd be totally fine with that. Seems like it would be too complicated to pull off, but yeah, that would be ideal if this was one possibility that actually had really dire consequences...
lol... I doubt that. I was thinking of it earlier but now that it's been mentioned, I am guessing that there are very few people who would have been fine with Fenris taking it upon himself to kill Anders (abomination) or Merrill (blood mage) without any input from the player. What if Sebastian just put an arrow into Anders's brain rather than threatening to come back with an army? I won't bother listing any other possibilities because it just sounds flat out implausible that people would really be okay what that. These aren't even people who would have been considered subordinates... these are just fellow adventurers that hung out with Hawke, and they still didn't randomly go off the deep end... eh... except for that one time with Anders, of course.
I actually would like Sebastian a lot more if he tried to kill Anders himself instead of asking us to do it. Doing his own killing of someone instead of making me, and not threatening to hurt the innocents of kirkwall because of one guy who had neither political influence or anything to do with its circle. Seriously I killed Anders my first run when I didn't have sebastian but after that always let him live out of spite. Come on Seb, you've been killing people by my side for years you can kill Anders your own damn self.
But I wouldn't have been ok if the game didn't let me at least tell him to leave and never come back once he did, but I would be mad at the game and not Sebastian.
And same with Lel if she kills this dude, I don't mind her doing it, character agency is cool, I do however want the chance to send her away/tell her off/limit her power after this if she did it against orders.
If I order the man's release, it's I'm a decision I'm making with full knowledge that he may attack once he's free. It's called a calculated risk.
If Leliana ignores that order because she feels he may attack, she's second guessing my judgment and that isn't something I need from people who work for me.
This discussion is going in circles. Nobody is going to budge until we get the full context of the scene and know all the variable outcomes.
Well, whether he would have given us the amulet or not if the son was spared... Doesn't really matter. The end result is the same; we have the amulet. It's not like Leliana MASSIVELY screwed the mission over. It wasn't like she started World War 8 with her actions; we just had to fight him to get the amulet. He could have given us the amulet when we handed his son over, but he could have also attacked us. Whether we spared his son or not doesn't seem to matter, since we still produced the desired end result. I'm not going to lose a night of sleep over her disobeying orders yet not obstructing the mission in any way.
Not the point, if she defied orders at a more critical time it could cost lives, You can't have inefficiency in an order like this.
Well, whether he would have given us the amulet or not if the son was spared... Doesn't really matter. The end result is the same; we have the amulet. It's not like Leliana MASSIVELY screwed the mission over. It wasn't like she started World War 8 with her actions; we just had to fight him to get the amulet. He could have given us the amulet when we handed his son over, but he could have also attacked us. Whether we spared his son or not doesn't seem to matter, since we still produced the desired end result. I'm not going to lose a night of sleep over her disobeying orders yet not obstructing the mission in any way.
Yeah you would get help from the guy that knows what is going on and can control demon he would be no use at all but neh leliana pretty much demons wrecked your entire party great scenario indeed... 
If I order the man's release, it's I'm a decision I'm making with full knowledge that he may attack once he's free. It's called a calculated risk.
If Leliana ignores that order because she feels he may attack, she's second guessing my judgment and that isn't something I need from people who work for me.
However if that man is a great threat on account of being a Tevinter Magister who has the power of necromancy then you are risking the lives of other people as well.
It's situations like that where I would'nt lose sleep if he dies immediately I release him.
Yeah you would get help from the guy that knows what is going on and can control demon he would be no use at all but neh leliana pretty much demons wrecked your entire party great scenario indeed...
Who are you and what have you done with TKS? The TKS I know would never work with one of the mages that proves his point that they are walking disasters.
If I order the man's release, it's I'm a decision I'm making with full knowledge that he may attack once he's free. It's called a calculated risk.
If Leliana ignores that order because she feels he may attack, she's second guessing my judgment and that isn't something I need from people who work for me.
Or simply doesn't wait for you to give further orders... no matter how you look at it, she acted recklessly and without instruction from her commander. It's not acceptable in any way.
He might have had information he would've been willing to share.
He seemed to regret what he's done and how majorly he screwed up, what's from stopping him to offer some help.
I saw people discussing this a little in another thread but I'd like to shine a light on it if possible. During the DAI demo we see the Inquisitor try to tell Leliana to let go of the Magister's son, she doesn't comply and proceeds to slit his throat. She defied direct orders, now I know we won't be able to execute her for this but some punishment must be possible? Otherwise we're impotent leaders and deserve no respect. An Inquisition needs a leader that rules with an iron fist.
You could also wait and see whether the context actually applies. How do you know you lead anything at that point? How do you know Leliana serves you at that point? Be careful of your assumptions... particularly when it comes to a plot that you're only half-seeing, and during which we removed any portions of the dialogue that were too spoilery.
Who are you and what have you done with TKS? The TKS I know would never work with one of the mages that proves his point that they are walking disasters.
Well if this is lose-lose scenario at worst and demons are after me i don't see problem trying deal with mage in short bargin pretty much ally that can control demons would be great in such situation.Of course once we are done well i wouldn't be nice for him or other mages.
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