82 réponses à ce sujet

[dewayne31]

I posted this question me group on facebook. If you had to do a bayonet charge who do you want leading you. Shepard Anderson or someone else?

 

i said anderson in facebook group but i'll add the primark

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

I'd want to be the guy with the machine gun, mowing them all down.

 

Only a moron does a bayonet charge when your opponent has automatic weapons. It's like the people on FB are all ROTC cadets or something.

 

Then again, I visit the ME page on Facebook. Most of the people on there are complete morons. Bone-headed fans who don't actually know much about the series.

[dewayne31]

I'd want to be the guy with the machine gun, mowing them all down.

 

Only a moron does a bayonet charge when your opponent has automatic weapons. It's like the people on FB are all ROTC cadets or something.

 

Then again, I visit the ME page on Facebook. Most of the people on there are complete morons. Bone-headed fans who don't actually know much about the series.

i thought be interstuing question. but yea i'd follow the guy with the m-76 if i wasnt using it:P but i actually had to do a bayonet charge i want anderson the proimark leading. i thiink the last bayonet i heard bout was iraqi in 2004 i believe. so i say it could happpen

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

i thought be interstuing question. but yea i'd follow the guy with the m-76 if i wasnt using it:P but i actually had to do a bayonet charge i want anderson the proimark leading. i thiink the last bayonet i heard bout was iraqi in 2004 i believe. so i say it could happpen

 

I wouldn't take a bayonet charge no matter who was leading it. Anderscum or the guy with no legs arms, a bayonet charge is a suicide on the level of stupid only a death-deserving glory seeker deserves.

 

Said Iraqi probably didn't end up too well. Maybe a black stain on the desert if he was lucky.

[themikefest]

I would just stay back and let that idiot of a leader Anderson charge forward with his bayonet and get killed.

[dewayne31]

as me and friend discussing just few minutes it a uinteresting question yet a dumb one. sine bayonet mostly is psychogical tool. and the husks and such dont no fear it would be stupid and whoever lead deserves to die

[ImaginaryMatter]

Kai Leng. He's a pro at attacking with outdated weapons.

[Han Shot First]

Kai Leng. He's a pro at attacking with outdated weapons.

 

This is what should have happened to Kai Leng:

 

Don't Bring Swords to Gun Fights

[ImaginaryMatter]

 

This is what should have happened to Kai Leng:

 

Don't Bring Swords to Gun Fights

 

That asian guy didn't bring his rechargeable shields.

[dewayne31]

well my last post in this thread i was truing good thread but it derailed so i'm I would bet the alliance marines still train if not use the bayonet. they teach hand to hand still.

[Roamingmachine]

I'd want to be the guy with the machine gun, mowing them all down.

 

Only a moron does a bayonet charge when your opponent has automatic weapons. It's like the people on FB are all ROTC cadets or something.

 

Then again, I visit the ME page on Facebook. Most of the people on there are complete morons. Bone-headed fans who don't actually know much about the series.

Successful bayonet charges have happened even in modern times http://www.businessi...onflict-2012-10   against automatic weapons, no less. It is a close-quarters tactic that is absolutelty devastating when used right.

[RanetheViking]

Consort Shaira.

 

I'd follow her a** into battle any where.

[Farangbaa]

That asian guy didn't bring his rechargeable shields.

This Asian guy don't need 'em!

[Mister J]

Grunt and Wrex, obviously!

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Successful bayonet charges have happened even in modern times http://www.businessi...onflict-2012-10   against automatic weapons, no less. It is a close-quarters tactic that is absolutelty devastating when used right.

 

I suspect that there is a lot more to that article than meets the eye, and I'm inclined to stand by my assertion at the uselessness of a bayonet charge. I've personally seen the affects of one inside a building under attack, with an insurgent charging a U.S. Marine. Didn't end well for the insurgent. Took a shell from a Remington 870 to the face. 

 

Against a modern, disciplined force, the only absolute about a charge with a bayonet (in any situation) is that there will be a lot of dead chargers on the ground. It's more useful to drop your gun and throw rocks at people. Believe me, I've seen that too.

[KaiserShep]

A bayonet charge would be greatly improved if it was combined with a biotic one.

[von uber]

"Major Kiszely, who was to become a senior general after the war, was the first man into the Argentine position, personally shooting two Argentinian conscripts and bayoneting a third, his bayonet breaking in two. Seeing their company commander among the Argentinians inspired 14 and 15 Platoons to make the final dash across open ground to get within bayoneting distance of the remaining marines."

 

http://en.wikipedia....ount_Tumbledown

 

It can work. Only if you are British, of course

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

"Major Kiszely, who was to become a senior general after the war, was the first man into the Argentine position, personally shooting two Argentinian conscripts and bayoneting a third, his bayonet breaking in two. Seeing their company commander among the Argentinians inspired 14 and 15 Platoons to make the final dash across open ground to get within bayoneting distance of the remaining marines."

 

http://en.wikipedia....ount_Tumbledown

 

It can work. Only if you are British, of course

 

Righteous British gentlemen. The same ones that charge the flag forward and call placing it on a hill a conquest.

 

We got Shock and Awe. We just scare the bad guys into willfully submitting before destruction. Overwhelming firepower to break their hearts and minds. When in doubt, blow up the city.

[Han Shot First]

Righteous British gentlemen. The same ones that charge the flag forward and call placing it on a hill a conquest.

 

We got Shock and Awe. We just scare the bad guys into willfully submitting before destruction. Overwhelming firepower to break their hearts and minds. When in doubt, blow up the city.

 

Actually there were a couple incidents involving US Marines using their bayonets in recent conflicts as well. In the early days of the Iraq invasion elements of 3/4 came into contact with Fedeyeen at close quarters in some marshland, and they fixed bayonets and ran them through. There was a similar incident involving 3/2 at An Nasirya, except it was at close quarters in a palm grove. While not necessarily a bayonet charge, Marines were also involved in heavy hand-to-hand fighting while clearing out hotels occupied by the Mahdi Army during the Battle of Najaf.

 

In Najaf some El Salvadorean soldiers also launched a successful bayonet charge, though in their case it was because they had run out of ammo.

 

The bayonet isn't entirely obsolete, though generally I would agree that charging an enemy force armed with assault rifles and machine guns is not a good idea. The common factor in all of the above incidents involving the Marines is that contact occurred at extremely close range and in terrain where the attackers did not have to cover a lot of open ground. With the El Salvadoreans there was an element of desperation, as they had run out of ammo. It was the last resort. At best the use of the bayonet is very situational and rare. 

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Actually there were a couple incidents involving US Marines using their bayonets in recent conflicts as well. In the early days of the Iraq invasion elements of 3/4 came into contact with Fedeyeen at close quarters in some marshland, and they fixed bayonets and ran them through. There was a similar incident involving 3/2 at An Nasirya, except it was at close quarters in a palm grove. While not necessarily a bayonet charge, Marines were also involved in heavy hand-to-hand fighting while clearing out hotels occupied by the Mahdi Army during the Battle of Najaf.

 

In Najaf some El Salvadorean soldiers also launched a successful bayonet charge, though in their case it was because they had run out of ammo.

 

The bayonet isn't entirely obsolete, though generally I would agree that charging an enemy force armed with assault rifles and machine guns is not a good idea. The common factor in all of the above incidents involving the Marines is that contact occurred at extremely close range and in terrain where the attackers did not have to cover a lot of open ground. With the El Salvadoreans there was an element of desperation, as they had run out of ammo. It was the last resort. At best the use of the bayonet is very situational and rare. 

 

Might come from different cultures. Marines love the bayonet. In the Army, we phased it out years ago. We don't even issue one anymore. We tend to circumvent the ammunition problem by bringing more ammunition. The issue becomes whether house and room clearing qualifies as a bayonet worthy. My argument is that it isn't, since it's at extremely close quarters in a closed environment. In Korangal, we had 6 separate Insurgent charges with them, at ranges of less than 60 meters. All were repelled with 100% casualties on the part of the attackers.

[L. Han]

Bayonet charges can throw enemies off balance. Being unpredictable and inconsistent can really give you an edge in the appropriate situations.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Bayonet charges can throw enemies off balance. Being unpredictable and inconsistent can really give you an edge in the appropriate situations.

 

You lose that advantage against a properly savvy defensive force. Being unpredictable and inconsistent doesn't always work like it does in the movies. In fact, against a trained force that knows what their up against and has a good grasp of their own strengths and capabilities, that entire 'advantage' can rapidly be removed easily by an adaptive force.

 

We weren't thrown off balance by the Taliban when they charged suddenly at night. We just adjusted our aim and kept firing. As I said, there was a 100% casualty confirmation in the AAR.

[Jukaga]

I think I'd rather have an AA-12 than a bayonet for room to room fighting.

[Jukaga]

You lose that advantage against a properly savvy defensive force. Being unpredictable and inconsistent doesn't always work like it does in the movies. In fact, against a trained force that knows what their up against and has a good grasp of their own strengths and capabilities, that entire 'advantage' can rapidly be removed easily by an adaptive force.

 

We weren't thrown off balance by the Taliban when they charged suddenly at night. We just adjusted our aim and kept firing. As I said, there was a 100% casualty confirmation in the AAR.

 

Sounds similar to the British experience in Burma in WW2. I remember this old soldier saying how scary it was the first time they got banzai katana charged but after that it got pretty easy considering they had semi-auto battle rifles, machine guns, mortars and mines.

[Aimi]

On the morning of 8 September 1914, the German and Entente armies were locked in a single continuous battle stretching from Paris to Verdun. Near the St.-Gond Marshes, Ferdinand Foch's Ninth French Army faced Max von Hausen's Third German Army, a largely-Saxon force with strong regional identity.

Ever since the Germans reestablished contact with the French after their victory in the Battle of the Frontiers a few weeks prior, they had been severely punished by fire from French field artillery. When the French were on the offensive, their 75mm pieces were badly outclassed by heavy German plunging-fire howitzers. But when the Germans launched their own offensive, many of the heavy artillery were left behind or, worse, out of ammunition. Unchecked by counterbattery fire, the 75s performed spectacularly well against the German infantry.

In order to avoid the 75s, Hausen proposed to use the cover of morning fog and to forgo artillery preparation. His entire army would be flung forward in a head-down bayonet charge directed straight at Foch's lines around the villages of Normée and Lenharrée. Improbably, it worked. Foch's XI Corps was smashed and driven back. The Germans advanced thirteen kilometers on a twenty-klick front and inflicted heavy casualties on the French. Hausen's bayonet charge in the teeth of modern firepower worked so spectacularly that Foch was forced to call for assistance from neighboring army commanders to stabilize his lines and prevent a total rout.

In their attack on the French, the German Third Army was fighting an entrenched enemy that possessed modern infantry rifles, machine guns, and artillery (including the outstanding field gun of the war, the 75). Under such circumstances, virtually any observer before or since would have believed that the charge was doomed to fail; almost no military authority of the time thought that an infantry attack unsupported by artillery preparation and fire superiority could succeed. But Hausen chose his moment and his opponent well, mixed with a fair amount of desperation.

Had the Third Army instead attempted to shoot its way in, Ninth Army probably would've been able to repel the attack with fire superiority, backed by its 75s. What the bayonet possessed that the German guns didn't was stealth and speed. And although it's unquantifiable, most writers before and since, including some of the participants, stressed the effect on the Saxons' morale of moving forward out of the artillery killzone to finally come to grips with an enemy that until then had remained infuriatingly out of grasp. While it's obviously true that high morale does not compensate for a bullet in the brain, high morale was absolutely necessary in order to get infantry to cross the fire-swept battlefield and make a successful attack. I would not characterize the tactical decision to make a bayonet charge on 8 September 1914 as "moronic", not least because it was rather successful. (I wouldn't want to participate in it, either, but I wouldn't want to participate in any battle.)

With all that said, although the bayonet charge was, in general, a tactical success, operationally Hausen compounded several earlier errors from the campaign by his generally lethargic efforts at pursuit, his inability to maintain contact with the French, and his failure to find the Ninth Army's open flank. It is hard to disagree with the critiques of, for instance, Holger Herwig, who slammed Hausen's mediocre generalship during the Marne campaign as a key element in Germany's defeat. Third Army's charge was a dramatic episode in an already extraordinarily dramatic campaign, but its ultimate consequences were nugatory.

I also think that mass-unit bayonet charges, no matter whether they were directed against machine guns or muskets, don't have a hell of a lot of relevance to the commando squad-level fighting that seems to dominate in the Mass Effect setting. But let that go.