Grunt and Wrex, obviously!
Yep. They should provide some good cover
All the artillery was wasted on the reaper in London. The thing was all but dead with just the two misslies. The artillery could've been used for cover fire at Harbinger while we ran at the beam.
Anything that could scratch Harbinger would pretty much flatten London
Anything that could scratch Harbinger would pretty much flatten London
It doesn't have to scratch Harbinger at all. It would distract Harbinger long enough for Shepard to get to the beam without getting nearly killed
It doesn't have to scratch Harbinger at all. It would distract Harbinger long enough for Shepard to get to the beam without getting nearly killed
Why would it distract Harbinger? I doubt he's ticklish.
Just as an aside, I always find the glorification of military power (which, in the end, is about killing people) rather odd.
Killing people is rather fun. From experience, there isn't the price in the world that you can put on watching some guy vanish in a cloud of red vapor and beaming with pride that your Call-for-fire shots all landed within a 3 meter radius of your target. It's a beautiful site to behold.
To hold the power of life and death in your hands is quite an awesome feeling. Plus, EXPLOSIONS are always cool. SuperMac is using it wrong. You don't base fictional realities off of BIG EXPLOSIONS. You base physical realities off of BIG EXPLOSIONS!
Why would it distract Harbinger? I doubt he's ticklish.
If that's the case why did the reaper stop firing at Shepard when the Turians started firng at it on Tuchanka? Why did the reaper in London stop walking to deal with the people firing small arms fire at it?
I would say anytime a reaper is being fired upon, it will stop whatever its doing to deal with whatever is firing at it to avoid being destroyed.
If that's the case why did the reaper stop firing at Shepard when the Turians started firng at it on Tuchanka? Why did the reaper in London stop walking to deal with the people firing small arms fire at it?
I would say anytime a reaper is being fired upon, it will stop whatever its doing to deal with whatever is firing at it to avoid being destroyed.
Differences in size, plus, in all fairness, Shepard didn't really have much of a goal that the Reaper could discern. The fighters were a greater target of opportunity (since I don't think they were a threat period).
I thought nobody uses bayonet charge anymore. All the real examples are more bayonet defence rather than bayonet charge. In ME, a squad of vanguards with no more ammo could use it effectively since ME has barriers and actual shot-proof armour.
I thought nobody uses bayonet charge anymore. All the real examples are more bayonet defence rather than bayonet charge. In ME, a squad of vanguards with no more ammo could use it effectively since ME has barriers and actual shot-proof armour.
I doubt it. In-universe (not in-game, due to gameplay/story segregation), it's acknowledged that Vanguards are typically very... disposable. It's a very dangerous position to be in. Are they going to take some people out? Yes. But then again, they're going to lose their own as well, and biotics aren't something that you can just spring back up like regular fodder. It's a waste of resources.
BW isn't very good with their tactics and strategy. They still treat it like its World War I.
You mean the development of new weapons, tactics and strategies to cope with the changes caused by modern industrialised warfare?
Nope. Said lack of new tactics, strategies, and mindsets to cope with the changes and advancements in weapons and technology caused by a shift in modern warfare, which was an astounding problem for involved parties in the First World War.
BW's failing is akin to that. They don't know squat about how to approach a military setting accurately.
In the ME universe where soldiers are equipped with armor and kinetic barriers a bayonet charge may be a more viable option then a prolonged firefight if the enemy has a superior position and your side can't get many clean shots. The fact is that it takes several bust of fire to take down a shield so a charge in clustered groups or even massed up would make it harder to cut down a wide swath of men. A single a soldier with a rifle today could take down a dozen men before they covered a few yards, but a ME platoon might loose 1 man by then and would likely by laying down their own fire as they ran. As long as the attacker have superior numbers and can cover the ground quickly enough they should be able to get in close and deal with the enemy. If I had to follow someone from ME on a charge, I'd take Grunt, a krogan will likely draw more fire and his regenerative abilities may even keep him alive to reach the enemy.
Nobody would charge on my position especially when I have claymores set up that would wiped them out
In the ME universe where soldiers are equipped with armor and kinetic barriers a bayonet charge may be a more viable option then a prolonged firefight if the enemy has a superior position and your side can't get many clean shots. The fact is that it takes several bust of fire to take down a shield so a charge in clustered groups or even massed up would make it harder to cut down a wide swath of men. A single a soldier with a rifle today could take down a dozen men before they covered a few yards, but a ME platoon might loose 1 man by then and would likely by laying down their own fire as they ran. As long as the attacker have superior numbers and can cover the ground quickly enough they should be able to get in close and deal with the enemy. If I had to follow someone from ME on a charge, I'd take Grunt, a krogan will likely draw more fire and his regenerative abilities may even keep him alive to reach the enemy.
If the enemy has a superior position and has you pinned down, why in god's name would you consider it a good thing to get up and charge the enemy? You're giving up what cover and firepower you have to make a senseless charge that overly relies on barriers (which would fail a lot quicker than you think) and generally making yourself as large a target as possible (the exact opposite of what you want to do) to storm an enemy with automatic weapons and a fortified position.
If you're going to rely on your barriers through an entire charge through a live station, you'd be better served just exiting cover for a few seconds from your firing position and getting a good shot with your own weapon.
Do you know anything about military tactics? You might as well put a big 'kick me' sign on your force.
Yep. They should provide some good cover
Anything that could scratch Harbinger would pretty much flatten London
Well, they *should* have just flattened London.
If the enemy has a superior position and has you pinned down, why in god's name would you consider it a good thing to get up and charge the enemy? You're giving up what cover and firepower you have to make a senseless charge that overly relies on barriers (which would fail a lot quicker than you think) and generally making yourself as large a target as possible (the exact opposite of what you want to do) to storm an enemy with automatic weapons and a fortified position.
If you're going to rely on your barriers through an entire charge through a live station, you'd be better served just exiting cover for a few seconds from your firing position and getting a good shot with your own weapon.
Do you know anything about military tactics? You might as well put a big 'kick me' sign on your force.
I don't mean charging across 100 yard of open country, but a few dozen yards just to get close to them may well be worth it rather then sitting in some half ass cover watching everyone around getting picked off one by one while you wait for some backup. Again, it is highly dependent on the situation. My main point was that the kinetic barriers would allow the infantrymen more time to close the distance before he goes down and then that clock starts up as fire would hit the next man who would have full shields. It may be barbaric but their may be a situation when you don't time to be picking off targets at rage or sitting still or falling back through a kill zone would be worse then going forward. This tactic was proven by the krogan in their own krogan wave attacks that beat the asari commandos, the salarians, and the vaunted turians, without the genophage they would have won the war, as long as you have the numbers it is a viable tactic in the ME universe.
I don't mean charging across 100 yard of open country, but a few dozen yards just to get close to them may well be worth it rather then sitting in some half ass cover watching everyone around getting picked off one by one while you wait for some backup. Again, it is highly dependent on the situation. My main point was that the kinetic barriers would allow the infantrymen more time to close the distance before he goes down and then that clock starts up as fire would hit the next man who would have full shields. It may be barbaric but their may be a situation when you don't time to be picking off targets at rage or sitting still or falling back through a kill zone would be worse then going forward. This tactic was proven by the krogan in their own krogan wave attacks that beat the asari commandos, the salarians, and the vaunted turians, without the genophage they would have won the war, as long as you have the numbers it is a viable tactic in the ME universe.
That's still an idiotic decision. If everyone else is getting picked off in cover (and presumably with barriers), what makes you think getting up and making yourself a target will make your mission any easier? At that point, I'd pop smoke, disengage, and let the artillery take care of the hard zone. But you were an idiot for getting into that position in the first place.
It's not highly dependent on the situation. Barring a very excessive few situations no more than a few meters, it's outright moronic to even consider any kind of charge where you're deliberately making yourself both the primary assaulting element and a larger target.
Here's the thing; if you have the men and the barriers to pull off that kind of stunt, why the hell are you not sitting in your half-ass cover picking away at the enemy yourself? You're trying to justify an action based on nothing more than trying to justify the action. It's not barbarism, it's lunacy. Even a barbarian would do what you're suggesting. I guarantee you that if you try to charge and excavate an enemy from their position and you're on the clock, you're only going to hurt yourself and your force. If you were really on the clock, as I said, call the damn artillery. They're there for you.
And the Krogan. Who also smashed asteroids into planets and used nukes to blow up a squad. I get the feeling that their charging nature had nothing to do with their success so much as it was their strategy. They had to also have a formidable navy at some point. Otherwise, if all they did was charge in an infantry fashion, they'd eventually realize that despite a few small victories, anything larger than a lightly fortified installation was going to still repel them every time. Plus, you're skewing the results to make it seem like all the enemies of the Krogan fought them on their own terms. That's rather asinine.
I don't mean charging across 100 yard of open country, but a few dozen yards just to get close to them may well be worth it rather then sitting in some half ass cover watching everyone around getting picked off one by one while you wait for some backup. Again, it is highly dependent on the situation. My main point was that the kinetic barriers would allow the infantrymen more time to close the distance before he goes down and then that clock starts up as fire would hit the next man who would have full shields. It may be barbaric but their may be a situation when you don't time to be picking off targets at rage or sitting still or falling back through a kill zone would be worse then going forward. This tactic was proven by the krogan in their own krogan wave attacks that beat the asari commandos, the salarians, and the vaunted turians, without the genophage they would have won the war, as long as you have the numbers it is a viable tactic in the ME universe.
If thats the case, I would lob a few grenades at their location, flash bang grenades and smoke grenades. Heck, just call in air support to wipe out the enemies location.
If thats the case, I would lob a few grenades at their location, flash bang grenades and smoke grenades. Heck, just call in air support to wipe out the enemies location.
Bit on the leg side of things, but yes, the main point on our end is that you have better, more effective tactics at your disposal.
If time is of the essence, why the hell are you getting bogged down with a firefight? Just move past the enemy or blow them up. Both are much, much, much more effective. If you're trapped in a firefight with them, again, just blow them up. Stay in cover. Don't charge unless you're in CQC range and don't charge period if they have automatic weapons.
That's still an idiotic decision. If everyone else is getting picked off in cover (and presumably with barriers), what makes you think getting up and making yourself a target will make your mission any easier? At that point, I'd pop smoke, disengage, and let the artillery take care of the hard zone. But you were an idiot for getting into that position in the first place.
It's not highly dependent on the situation. Barring a very excessive few situations no more than a few meters, it's outright moronic to even consider any kind of charge where you're deliberately making yourself both the primary assaulting element and a larger target.
Here's the thing; if you have the men and the barriers to pull off that kind of stunt, why the hell are you not sitting in your half-ass cover picking away at the enemy yourself? You're trying to justify an action based on nothing more than trying to justify the action. It's not barbarism, it's lunacy. Even a barbarian would do what you're suggesting. I guarantee you that if you try to charge and excavate an enemy from their position and you're on the clock, you're only going to hurt yourself and your force. If you were really on the clock, as I said, call the damn artillery. They're there for you.
And the Krogan. Who also smashed asteroids into planets and used nukes to blow up a squad. I get the feeling that their charging nature had nothing to do with their success so much as it was their strategy. They had to also have a formidable navy at some point. Otherwise, if all they did was charge in an infantry fashion, they'd eventually realize that despite a few small victories, anything larger than a lightly fortified installation was going to still repel them every time. Plus, you're skewing the results to make it seem like all the enemies of the Krogan fought them on their own terms. That's rather asinine.
I'm still waiting to see cas or artillery in the ME universe, but so far all I've seen is some drones.
So tell me then, if you end up being ambushed like Ashleys squad in ME 1 do you just stay where you are, calmly call for support and then bleed out on the ground or do you move? And if the only way out is through the enemy, what do you do then? Surrender, even if your unit has been assigned a critical mission that the rest of the force is depending on, like sighting the artillery to keep from blowing up their own men?
It's impossible to predict every variable of a battle field, so to say that there is no circumstance where attacking into the enemy is the best option would be a bit shortsighted. My original point was solely that the kinetic barrier would give the infantryman a greater chance of survival in such a charge because one shot doses not equal death, hell he could just drop when his shield flair then pop up behind the line allowing the shield to recharge by the time he ends up back at the front as those infront did the same, cycling through the ranks while minimizing casualties and advancing on the enemy. Are there better options, yes, but they are not always handy or timely, make do or do without as the saying goes. I'm sure Shepard could have handled Torfan better, instead the mission was accomplished and 3/4 or his/her troops died in the process, sometimes results are all the commanders care about.
I'm still waiting to see cas or artillery in the ME universe, but so far all I've seen is some drones.
So tell me then, if you end up being ambushed like Ashleys squad in ME 1 do you just stay where you are, calmly call for support and then bleed out on the ground or do you move? And if the only way out is through the enemy, what do you do then? Surrender, even if your unit has been assigned a critical mission that the rest of the force is depending on, like sighting the artillery to keep from blowing up their own men?
It's impossible to predict every variable of a battle field, so to say that there is no circumstance where attacking into the enemy is the best option would be a bit shortsighted. My original point was solely that the kinetic barrier would give the infantryman a greater chance of survival in such a charge because one shot doses not equal death, hell he could just drop when his shield flair then pop up behind the line allowing the shield to recharge by the time he ends up back at the front as those infront did the same, cycling through the ranks while minimizing casualties and advancing on the enemy. Are there better options, yes, but they are not always handy or timely, make do or do without as the saying goes. I'm sure Shepard could have handled Torfan better, instead the mission was accomplished and 3/4 or his/her troops died in the process, sometimes results are all the commanders care about.
Look at Thessia. Look at any time you face opponents who send a gunship after you. Look at the lore. These all clearly exist, even if they aren't depicted. You can't say it doesn't exist based on your own ignorance.
You've just created an impure scenario that is very specific with its limitations on me. That's not a valid utility of argument. This point is invalidated.
And you've directly misinterpreted my statement. I know this. Much better than you, having been in combat situations myself. I did not say that attacking the enemy is not a good strategy. I said charging the enemy when they have the advantage of firepower and position is not a good strategy. Especially when that charge involves 1) making yourself a large, loud, and linear-moving target, 2) having little to no defensive capability beyond a barrier that is already strained from getting involved in a senseless firefight, and 3) not bothering to do anything to support your charge, such as no artillery, support by fire, returning fire.
That wouldn't work practically, as having to move would mean having to again expose yourself to open fire (without cover) and hiding in an obvious position. It's not concealment, it's cover. And the enemy is whittling away at it, while your buddy is also losing his shields from fire. Soon, he's gonna have no shields, and you're gonna have no cover. That's why this strategy is irrevocably flawed.
And there is always a handier and timelier solution; disengage, blow them up, or not engage in the first place. The very fact that you've put yourself in this position shows that you don't have any business being on the battlefield at all. As I've said, you're trying to create a highly specific scenario to justify an action that is basically useless.
Look at Thessia. Look at any time you face opponents who send a gunship after you. Look at the lore. These all clearly exist, even if they aren't depicted. You can't say it doesn't exist based on your own ignorance.
You've just created an impure scenario that is very specific with its limitations on me. That's not a valid utility of argument. This point is invalidated.
And you've directly misinterpreted my statement. I know this. Much better than you, having been in combat situations myself. I did not say that attacking the enemy is not a good strategy. I said charging the enemy when they have the advantage of firepower and position is not a good strategy. Especially when that charge involves 1) making yourself a large, loud, and linear-moving target, 2) having little to no defensive capability beyond a barrier that is already strained from getting involved in a senseless firefight, and 3) not bothering to do anything to support your charge, such as no artillery, support by fire, returning fire.
That wouldn't work practically, as having to move would mean having to again expose yourself to open fire (without cover) and hiding in an obvious position. It's not concealment, it's cover. And the enemy is whittling away at it, while your buddy is also losing his shields from fire. Soon, he's gonna have no shields, and you're gonna have no cover. That's why this strategy is irrevocably flawed.
And there is always a handier and timelier solution; disengage, blow them up, or not engage in the first place. The very fact that you've put yourself in this position shows that you don't have any business being on the battlefield at all. As I've said, you're trying to create a highly specific scenario to justify an action that is basically useless.
I stand corrected on the gunships, it's been awhile since I played and I was thinking more like fighters but your right, though they do have a bad habit of being shot down.
So your saying those scenarios can't happen in real life? I do recall saying that charging would depend on the circumstances. One thing I notice in your argument is you always have the initiative, but that isn't always the case. Sometimes you have to react to the enemy and things aren't going be like how they are in the manual. Again, it's not a tactic that I would advise using, armor support, leap frog advance, and cover to cover are always going to be preferred, I was simply making the observation that barriers would provide more protection then cloth and mean that lower % of casualties in the action itself, not that they wouldn't be heavy or that I would advise it.
I stand corrected on the gunships, it's been awhile since I played and I was thinking more like fighters but your right, though they do have a bad habit of being shot down.
So your saying because those scenarios can't happen in real life. I do recall saying that charging would depend on the circumstances. One thing I notice in your argument is you always have the initiative, but that isn't always the case. Sometimes you have to react to the enemy and things aren't going be like how they are in the manual. Again, it's not a tactic that I would advise using, armor support, leap frog advance, and cover to cover are always going to be preferred, I was simply making the observation that barriers would provide more protection then cloth and mean that lower % of casualties in the action itself, not that they wouldn't be heavy or that I would advise it.
No, I'm not saying that these scenario's can't happen in real life. I'm saying that you're going out of your way to construct a scenario that is obviously bound to be preferential to your desired outcome.
They would provide more protection, yes. It would be the equivalent of the plywood they nailed onto humvees for extra 'armor' in the opening days of Iraq and Afghanistan.
No, I'm not saying that these scenario's can't happen in real life. I'm saying that you're going out of your way to construct a scenario that is obviously bound to be preferential to your desired outcome.
They would provide more protection, yes. It would be the equivalent of the plywood they nailed onto humvees for extra 'armor' in the opening days of Iraq and Afghanistan.
That was my only point though and I'm sorry I'm tired and couldn't think of another way to say it. But in a very specific set of circumstances it does have to be at least considered an option. I would never advocate a massed charge like WW1, but on a squad or platoon level, it a certain circumstance, it may be viable.
On Omaha Beach, there were a couple of heavily fortified positions that were devastating the soldiers storming the beach.
As it turned out, the solution was some Destroyers coming in close to the beach and blowing the **** out of them. Modern methods of making things go boom are rather effective.
And here is another reason why bayonet charges are a bad idea.
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