648 réponses à ce sujet

[Kantr]

going by the tweets of the Dragon age Keep account, beta invites will still be happening.

[Dermain]

I think you quoted the wrong person, SofaJockey.

 

No. 

 

He was just using you to prove a point.

 

(Assuming I am correct about his intentions).

[SofaJockey]

No. He was just using you to prove a point.

(Assuming I am correct about his intentions).

 

yep - the discussion about the Keep posts was simply a trigger. I wasn't really making a point about the poster just about the discussion..

[Darvins]

It absolutely does. Why would you have your art team go with a completely different style for just one section instead if being consistent? Maybe not 100% proven, but definitely an indication. Combine it with everything else that has come to pass so far and it is more than enough to lean toward this leak being authentic.

 

Because the Keep is talking about the past games, so they use the Art style of the game in question? The Keep will be a free app, while Inquisition is a product you pay money for, so they are going to get different Art Budgets... I can think of more reasons but those two where quick and easy ones.

[Chari]

Consequences

 

With the internet it's hard to keep anything secret, but that doesn't mean it's ok to leak.

Leaks just encourage game studios and other creative people and companies to be more and more guarded.

 

I'm not going to share my opinion of the individual who leaked the Keep information under NDA

as I'd be warned for it (even if the forum would allow those words to be shown). My view of them is not high basically.

 

What they did was breach a trust that most of us did not have the opportunity to enjoy.

I could quite easily see BioWare adding no further testers to the Keep beta now, nor would I blame them.

 

The problem is that I feel morally compromised by feeling that way about the Keep leaker

and being interested in this thread about rumoured achievements.

 

If the achievements leaks are a fake, then it's a troll we should not support.

If the achievements leaks are true. the leaker is no better than the Keep leaker to be honest.

 

So now I feel a bit dirty by association  

 

Did the leakers let people know Bioware's personal data, bank accounts or other information which literally costs money? Nope, just some bits of information about the game, only some of which are spoilers

I don't see any reason to keep, eh, the Keep mysterious. It's literally just an official online save editor. Unless you didn't play DA:O and DA2 there is no spoilers whatsoever. And if you didn't, then the Keep experience will be nothing but random clicking at buttons and choices about characters and stories you know nothing about. Pointless

I'm all for leaks like this achivement list. The Survey leak and a couple of others kept many DA forums alive for literally years. WIthout them there would be nothing to discuss. Many would probably even forget that DA games exist except hardcore fans. So, me, I'm thankful to folk who leak information from time to time. Because they keep speculation alive, the fandom alive. Without them this place and many more would be dull like a graveyard

Now, I'm nor saying everyone should break the NDA-thing and reveal everything... but there is no need for such drama. No one got hurt, physically or mentally or even financially as far as we know

 

Now, let's get back to this little list of achivements and discuss it, not other things

[The_Prophet_of_Donk]

_{Like many threads previous (including one of mine) this thread will probably be deleted because you are talking about the taboo.... the NDA breach....}

[ElitePinecone]

Now, I'm nor saying everyone should break the NDA-thing and reveal everything... but there is no need for such drama. No one got hurt, physically or mentally or even financially as far as we know

 

On the contrary, leaks do a great deal of harm to developers. It gives people access to information in a context that the studio never intended. In this case, someone literally broke the law - and went back on an agreement they'd signed - making it less likely that fans will be trusted with pre-release testing.

 

Fans might be satisfied and kept busy by the occasional leak, but that attitude is enormously selfish if you ignore the impact it has on the people who created that content. At the very least we should try to think of this from the devs' perspective, and not just as a fan trying to get as much information as possible.

 

The ME3 story leak was devastating, according to some of the ME writers. People could suddenly find out the plot of basically the entire game, ruining hours of surprises and twists that the writers had worked for literally years to create. Fans found scene descriptions and summaries that were never meant to be seen publicly, and lambasted the studio for months about issues that they had no idea about. 

 

(The fact that most of the criticism was eventually justified is beside the point. The developers should have a right to present their work in the way they want, and not have it spoiled beforehand.)

[SofaJockey]

EDIT never mind.

[Chari]

On the contrary, leaks do a great deal of harm to developers. It gives people access to information in a context that the studio never intended. In this case, someone literally broke the law - and went back on an agreement they'd signed - making it less likely that fans will be trusted with pre-release testing.

 

Fans might be satisfied and kept busy by the occasional leak, but that attitude is enormously selfish if you ignore the impact it has on the people who created that content. At the very least we should try to think of this from the devs' perspective, and not just as a fan trying to get as much information as possible.

 

The ME3 story leak was devastating, according to some of the ME writers. People could suddenly find out the plot of basically the entire game, ruining hours of surprises and twists that the writers had worked for literally years to create. Fans found scene descriptions and summaries that were never meant to be seen publicly, and lambasted the studio for months about issues that they had no idea about. 

 

(The fact that most of the criticism was eventually justified is beside the point. The developers should have a right to present their work in the way they want, and not have it spoiled beforehand.)

You call that harmful? I say people getting wounded, hurt or even dead or bankrupt is harmful. A bit of information leak is no harm to anyone. Unless, of course, you can somehow use a screenshot to hurt a person. I don't know... print it and give somebody a paper cut? 

 

I'm yet to hear any dev getting emotional trauma from people knowing how achivements look like. You may give me an example, of course, I don't mind. There is nothing selfish in wanting to know more information about some game you're waiting for. After all this keeps the fandom alive. Not even the official information. Especially since previous experience has proven that trusting every bit of official information is quite naive *coughmeendingscough*

 

Welp, ME3 leak was a whole beta. These two leaks don't even have new information. Keep is literally just a save editor, nothing more - there is no new information whatsoever, even the visual images are just illustrations of the information we already knew. Achivement list is very vague. So again, no need to be a drama queen. Everything's okay and well

 

Of course, you may continue being a proper citizen or whatever you feel like, but I'd rather have an alive forum and fandom full of people actually discussing actual information than a graveyard filled with fanart of Cullen's abs or another argument about the new PC being the OGB. Dragon Age is not popular enough, compared to ME it is rather unfamous even among RPG fans. These leaks give it attention it needs to keep people interested and not forgetting that Thedas even exists

[Johnny Shepard]

Bioware has been removing all threads about it. 

And this is why I have a hard time believing this is legit. If it was, Bioware wouldn't let us discus it and surely not an link to download it.

[Milan92]

You call that harmful? I say people getting wounded, hurt or even dead or bankrupt is harmful. A bit of information leak is no harm to anyone. Unless, of course, you can somehow use a screenshot to hurt a person. I don't know... print it and give somebody a paper cut? 

 

I'm yet to hear any dev getting emotional trauma from people knowing how achivements look like. You may give me an example, of course, I don't mind. There is nothing selfish in wanting to know more information about some game you're waiting for. After all this keeps the fandom alive. Not even the official information. Especially since previous experience has proven that trusting every bit of official information is quite naive *coughmeendingscough*

 

Welp, ME3 leak was a whole beta. These two leaks don't even have new information. Keep is literally just a save editor, nothing more - there is no new information whatsoever, even the visual images are just illustrations of the information we already knew. Achivement list is very vague. So again, no need to be a drama queen. Everything's okay and well

 

Of course, you may continue being a proper citizen or whatever you feel like, but I'd rather have an alive forum and fandom full of people actually discussing actual information than a graveyard filled with fanart of Cullen's abs or another argument about the new PC being the OGB. Dragon Age is not popular enough, compared to ME it is rather unfamous even among RPG fans. These leaks give it attention it needs to keep people interested and not forgetting that Thedas even exists

 

Its the principle that matters here. Bioware placed trust in people, and someone decided to break it.

 

Trust is a rare thing these days it seems.

[Beerfish]

"Of course, you may continue being a proper citizen or whatever you feel like, but I'd rather have an alive forum and fandom full of people actually discussing actual information than a graveyard filled with fanart of Cullen's abs or another argument about the new PC being the OGB. Dragon Age is not popular enough, compared to ME it is rather unfamous even among RPG fans. These leaks give it attention it needs to keep people interested and not forgetting that Thedas even exists"

 

Things will get discussed as 'rote' and if they do not come to pass the game makers get blasted, I've seen this a number of times over the years.

 

Also wast part of an NDA or you shall not discuss do you not get?  Do you want to know the alternative?  Much much less real info being discussed because developers become so tight lipped nothing leaks out.  not to mention the spoilers that leak out of threads like this to other parts of the site.  There is gobs to talk about aside form a leaked achievement list.

[Kidd]

You call that harmful? I say people getting wounded, hurt or even dead or bankrupt is harmful. A bit of information leak is no harm to anyone. Unless, of course, you can somehow use a screenshot to hurt a person. I don't know... print it and give somebody a paper cut?

What happened was a crime, no matter what you may think of it. BioWare (or rather Electronic Arts, I suppose) were victims of a breach of contract that may or may not result in financial loss due to them losing their control of their own property. I'm not a jurist, nor am I educated in economy, so I have no idea how great this potential loss could be. But I don't think it is in fine taste to downplay a crime when you are not the victimised party.

I'm yet to hear any dev getting emotional trauma from people knowing how achivements look like.

The supposed leaked achievements are very different from the latest leak. The achievements, if they are even a real leak, would be an internal screw-up. The broken NDA is completely different in that somebody from outside the company breached their contract.

Of course, you may continue being a proper citizen or whatever you feel like, but I'd rather have an alive forum and fandom full of people actually discussing actual information than a graveyard filled with fanart of Cullen's abs or another argument about the new PC being the OGB. Dragon Age is not popular enough, compared to ME it is rather unfamous even among RPG fans. These leaks give it attention it needs to keep people interested and not forgetting that Thedas even exists

I believe EA's marketing department knows how to handle the franchise better than us forumites.

And if the future financial success of the BioWare brand and in turn the green-lighting of future products may demand that us forumites get to wait a bit longer to speculate on data, then we should agree with that. I'd rather BioWare keep doing well so they can make tons of great games for me to play, enjoy and discuss with others than to get my hands on unannounced data which may change at any time between now and release. Instant gratification is not always worth it even for us consumers.

[Chari]

Its the principle that matters here. Bioware placed trust in people, and someone decided to break it.

 

Trust is a rare thing these days it seems.

You mean putting trust into people? Well, that's quite... naive on its own. I'm rather surprised people are surprised someone leaked a bit of info 

 

What happened was a crime, no matter what you may think of it. BioWare (or rather Electronic Arts, I suppose) were victims of a breach of contract that may or may not result in financial loss due to them losing their control of their own property. I'm not a jurist, nor am I educated in economy, so I have no idea how great this potential loss could be. But I don't think it is in fine taste to downplay a crime when you are not the victimised party.

 

A child stealing a lollipop from a shop is a crime. Putting him into jail for that or demanding so is pointless drama. 

No actually important information connected to the plot or gameplay was leaked. I doubt you can lose a lot of money due to this. Hence it's just a little mischief, at worst

 

I believe EA's marketing department knows how to handle the franchise better than us forumites.

And if the future financial success of the BioWare brand and in turn the green-lighting of future products may demand that us forumites get to wait a bit longer to speculate on data, then we should agree with that. I'd rather BioWare keep doing well so they can make tons of great games for me to play, enjoy and discuss with others than to get my hands on unannounced data which may change at any time between now and release. Instant gratification is not always worth it even for us consumers. 

 

EA? Really? Well, I guess then you liked Xbox One advertisement and how Sims 4 is handled... Pfft, my, I didn't hear a funnier joke the whole day, thank you for a good laugh

 

I see no connection between an online save editor, a list of vague achivements and financial success of anything. So far you gave no proof as well. Beta I may agree. This? This is no more dangerous than a kid stealing a lollipop. Yet folk cry and demand the kid to be put in jail for the horrendous crime like he murdered someone. And this won't stop Bioware from making new games, that's even ridiculous to think it could. The only thing that may prevent them from doing so is if people lose interest in their games. And that's the real problem, not a leak of website which doesn't even really need so much enigma

[Kidd]

A child stealing a lollipop from a shop is a crime. Putting him into jail for that or demanding so is pointless drama.

Nobody's said a thing about putting this person in jail. I have no idea what kind of damage this can bring, and I think it's important to recognise when one does not know.

EA? Really? Well, I guess then you liked Xbox One advertisement and how Sims 4 is handled... Pfft, my, I didn't hear a funnier joke the whole day, thank you for a good laugh

If you're so certain you can do better than the current staff, then I suggest you apply for a position. I'm sure competent talent is always welcome.

So far you gave no proof as well. Beta I may agree. This?

I don't need to show you any proof since I have not made any definitive claims aside from how EA has been victimised by a breach of contract. I've been quite consistent in claiming that I have no idea what ramifications could come out of this event. My pardons, but I suspect you don't either. Hopefully for all parties, the damage is minimal.

I don't believe I have much else to say on the subject.

[realguile]

 

 

 

 

 

[Chari]

Nobody's said a thing about putting this person in jail. I have no idea what kind of damage this can bring, and I think it's important to recognise when one does not know.

If you're so certain you can do better than the current staff, then I suggest you apply for a position. I'm sure competent talent is always welcome.

I don't need to show you any proof since I have not made any definitive claims aside from how EA has been victimised by a breach of contract. I've been quite consistent in claiming that I have no idea what ramifications could come out of this event. My pardons, but I suspect you don't either. Hopefully for all parties, the damage is minimal.

I don't believe I have much else to say on the subject.

Welp, crying and whinning when someone stole a lollipop like they stole an expensive video game console it is. Still pointless drama if you ask me

 

Sony staff and even Nintendo staff did better. So it can be done, then again, whose "brilliant" idea it was to demand a constant connection to the Internet anyway? No surprise people were fired, the idea's terrible

 

You say it like they've been personally robbed and millions of dollars were stolen by terrible naughty leakers. Which is even more pointless drama not really worth so much attention. 

 

Hopefully we can go back to discussing this little achivements list leak and how high are chances that it is real. That's much more fun

[David Gaider]

First and only warning: drop this line of conversation.

 

As to anyone thinking that breaching an NDA is "harmless" because it's information a fan might be interested in seeing, perhaps you then wouldn't mind if Facebook or Tumblr or some other social media site you're signed up with reveals your personal data? No? I mean, it's only a breach of contract, and that's information someone out there might be keen on seeing.

 

If you're expecting any dev here to view that kind of attitude with anything less than a severe frowny face, you're very mistaken.

 

Now drop it or the entire thread gets deleted.

[Chari]

Geez, okay-okay, I'll leave. Ban me for all I care... but such leaks, such rumours keep speculation alive, forums noisy. You may hate it, but it is needed just as much as official information is to keep fandom working

P.S. And that's why I prefer unofficial fanforums, where we can actually discuss such information without censorship

P.P.S. And no, I don't mind social media leaking a bit of my information. If I did I wouldn't even use social media

[SofaJockey]

ok, moving along now...

 

do many people particularly bother about achievements enough to do multiple playthroughs just to achieve them?
I thought they were a nice bit of fun, but I don't know if they are taken very seriously by some?

[Maeshone]

ok, moving along now...

 

do many people particularly bother about achievements enough to do multiple playthroughs just to achieve them?
I thought they were a nice bit of fun, but I don't know if they are taken very seriously by some?

Trust me, some people take achievements very seriously. I mean, there's a guy going for 1000,000 GamerScore, who's already at 600,000.

 

As for me, sometimes I go out of my way to get certain achievements, but it really depends on what the specific achievement is. I got some of the harder ones from Brütal Legend just because they sounded fun, like riding a razor hog all the way over the map, or jumping over a hextadon in the car. They can also add some nice replayability to certain titles I enjoy, where I try to play it a bit differently than I normally would. Like when I went for the no kills/no alarms/no alerts run on the hardest difficulty in Human Revolution, or a pacifist run in Mirror's Edge.

[The_Prophet_of_Donk]

ok, moving along now...

 

do many people particularly bother about achievements enough to do multiple playthroughs just to achieve them?
I thought they were a nice bit of fun, but I don't know if they are taken very seriously by some?

I'm so close to both DA:O and DA2 100% achievments for 360! I'll do multiple playthroughs and make any decision to get an achievement

[JeffZero]

ok, moving along now...

 

do many people particularly bother about achievements enough to do multiple playthroughs just to achieve them?
I thought they were a nice bit of fun, but I don't know if they are taken very seriously by some?

 

I have literally never regarded the acquisition of an achievement or trophy on my consoles as anything more than a temporary blip on my top-left with a sound effect I've only begrudgingly learned to accept. (I usually disable it, really.) The closest thing to fun this system has afforded me has been when the name for said achievement has been amusing. Metal Gear Solid HD Collection, for example, had a lot of fun with that. I look at it, having never bothered to actively research what is needed to acquire it or anything, and I'll go, "heh." And then I'll forget it ever happened.

 

I've had pretty lengthy conversations with two likeminded friends on the matter in the past week or so, actually. They tend to ask me about gaming industry things since I've learned a lot following a few particular companies over the years. In my estimation, Microsoft took a chance with the setup for the 360 to pioneer something unique about their then-new console. Back then, the concept was met with much derision from many parties, but it quickly developed into a kind of obsession for an increasing number of people. Sony thus followed suit, as did Steam, Origin, and every MMO in-between. These days it's just about assumed it will factor into most video games.

 

From what I've gathered, publishers and developers alike saw the ease by which they could implement a thing many consider "added replay value" when in fact it is little more than accessing a universal code and plugging in factors. It is not a bonus minigame a la the days of Final Fantasy VII and its chocobo racing/breeding, submarine shindig, motorcycle mayhem, snowboarding scenario, et al. It is an implementation of a collectible acquisition based around in-game accomplishments. It stimulates a sense of -- well, achievement -- for many gamers, thereby promising greater attachment and addiction. And since there are so many which do indeed consider collecting a thing to be replay value, it prevents the likelihood of a fast return of a game disc to its retailer.

 

So while it has never meant anything to me and will continue to mean nothing to me (I'm not a collector by my very nature; quite the contrary, IRL I'm fairly minimalist!) the logic of its continued upkeep and appreciation by a certain sector of the gaming population (which grows every year, it would seem) is undeniable and understandable.

[JeffZero]

Well, hell's bells. I mean, look at my post, but then look at the post directly above mine. See? For some, it really, really matters.

[SofaJockey]

Well, hell's bells. I mean, look at my post, but then look at the post directly above mine. See? For some, it really, really matters.

 

I'm pleased it gives happiness 

I'm not a big fan of games that actually track one's level of completion up to '100%' 

because then I feel I have to 'fetch 20x of those' or ' 'get XP of that' and then I'm tempted (sadly) to try to get that percentage.

 

The original Assassin's Creed is an example of that. All those pointless flags... Feels grindy.

 

And for immersion, what's the point of 'collectibles'?