46 réponses à ce sujet

[von uber]

In light of lack of motivation to carry on a ME3 playthrough, a simple question:

 

Is ME2 and 3 more nuanced (if that's the right word) with Wrex dead and Wreav in charge? Having Wrex in charge of the Krogan changes the outlook of the species making them a more sympathetic race to the player (and a somewhat rainbows and unicorns future for the Krogan, especially if Eve is alive). Wreav gives an insight into the traditonal Krogan mindset and culture, leading to more interesting decisions regarding the cure of the genophage and having the Krogan as an ally.

 

I personally am erring to leaving Wrex on Virmire; I think I prefer the story with Wreav in charge. Thoughts?

[DeinonSlayer]

It certainly does help to strip away the rainbows-and-butterflies veneer of the Krogan in ME3. Especially if you haven't tried it yet, I say go for it. You should also have a run with Wiks in charge at least once - he's just as much anti-Genophage as post-ME2 Mordin, but still a fun character.

[Barquiel]

I wouldn't call it more nuanced. Wreav is simply at the other extreme from Wrex and doesn't even try to hide his intentions to attack the Salarians and Turians after the war. I think the most interesting scenario is Wrex alive, but Eve not alive.

[SporkFu]

Wreav is an interesting character. But in the end he just reminds me of that clan Weyrloc speaker that you can light on fire in ME2.

[HTTP 404]

If you decide to get rid of the genophage research in Me2, there is a way for Mordin to survive.  It also requires Eve to be dead though.

[von uber]

Wteav is an interesting character. But in the end he just reminds me of that clan Weyrloc speaker that you can light on fire in ME2.

 

I agree - and all the other clan leaders. Therefore I would suggest he is more representative of the Krogan as a whole.

Having Wrex and Eve alive is presented as pretty much 'cure the genophage please'. Wreav throws a spanner into the works I feel.

[themikefest]

I like Wreav better than Wrex.

 

I have cured the genophage with both in charge to see what happens in the game otherwise I don't cure it.

[Dabrikishaw]

It certainly does help to strip away the rainbows-and-butterflies veneer of the Krogan in ME3. Especially if you haven't tried it yet, I say go for it. You should also have a run with Wiks in charge at least once - he's just as much anti-Genophage as post-ME2 Mordin, but still a fun character.

I like Wiks curing the Genophage more than Mordin because at the very least I can say Wiks's views don't look like they conflict with his past incarnation like Mordin's do(on top of just generally liking Wik's actually motivation for wanting the Genophage cured more than Mordin's crisis of faith). That's why I intentionally kill Mordin in the Suicide Mission whenever I want to cure the Genophange. Which is almost all the time.

[cap and gown]

I wouldn't call it more nuanced. Wreav is simply at the other extreme from Wrex and doesn't even try to hide his intentions to attack the Salarians and Turians after the war. I think the most interesting scenario is Wrex alive, but Eve not alive.

 

I would go the opposite way for a more interesting view of the Krogan: Wrex dead, Eve survives. While Wreav presents the brutal, militaristic Krogan, Eve can try to offset that idea and claim a) it is a recent idea rather than built into the Krogan and b ) that the females can somehow exercise power over the males. This can make the decision feel more conflicted, especially since you are going to have to kill either Mordin or Wiks yourself if you want to sabotage the cure. Personally, I find killing Mordin more poignant than killing Wiks, a character I only just met. Call me weird, but I just find the story telling behind a Wreav, save cure data, kill Mordin scenario more interesting than the somewhat bland Wrex, save cure data, reveal the sabotage scenario. In fact, even if you are going to go through with the cure, I think it is better to not tell Wrex/Wreav about it, especially if you have Mordin around. That way you can get more dialogue out of him as to why he wants to cure the genophage now. "I made a MISTAKE!" That line certainly stands out more than "Someone else might have gotten it wrong."

[DuskWanderer]

I wouldn't call it more nuanced. Wreav is simply at the other extreme from Wrex and doesn't even try to hide his intentions to attack the Salarians and Turians after the war. I think the most interesting scenario is Wrex alive, but Eve not alive.

 

Eh, I find that's a horrible cliche, with the mutant in a warrior clan who prefers talk to fighting. 

 

There's also other tidbits, actions we see Wrex undertake, moving Eve in a firefight, his constant bluster, threats to salarians Shepard just rolls with, never once calling Wrex out on his crap behavior. As far as I can see, Wrex is more rational than Wreav, but he still wants unchecked krogan expansion and the dissenting that it could be dangerous is barely given lip service. 

 

At least with Wreav, the krogan are treated as the genocidal pricks they are. 

[RatThing]

Wrex's role in ME3 was absolutely confusing for me given what I knew of him so far. When you first meet him in the first game, he gets in trouble with C-Sec and then kills Fist, who was unarmed. If you talk to him later on the Normandy he'll tell you how he wanted to kill a good friend for money. The job he did for Saren was a piracy job. ("Checking bodies for valuables").

Bring him with you on Noveria, and he'll tell you how he had freelancer jobs here eliminating businessmen. Later he'll demand you to find him something to kill to get his blood pumping. Finally he'll make a strong case for killing the Rachni Queen using the same arguments that others use to justify the genophage. So in conclusion he was a pirate, a contract killer and overall a rotten and ruthless bastard (and I don't even mean it that negative or try to bash him, it's what made him interesting). He was also a prime example for me why people considered Krogans as dangerous.

Now in the third game all of a sudden I am supposed to believe that Wrex is some kind of wise and peaceful leader. He makes himself look like a pacifist, Eve tells you how he's the great hope for Krogans and no one seems even a bit worried about him. Even though he couldn't solve the situation on Sur'kesh peacefully. Padok Wiks had to step in to stop a gunfight. Even though he couldn't solve the situation with Wreav on Tuchanka peacefully. Eve had to step in. It was ridicoulous. In my 4 playthrougs I had Wrex one time, shook my head so many times in disbelief, and after that made sure I had Wreav in charge.

With Wreav the Tuchanka arc is actually quite satisfying for me. With Wrex it's messed up.  If I at least could let my Shepard express some of the doubts that I had about Wrex it would be ok, but when I finally sabotaged (I also only cured with Wreav) and my Shepard got confronted by Wrex, the game makes her say "The other Krogans aren't like you Wrex".

[Excella Gionne]

We pretty much know the outcomes of each already depending on your decisions. I'd say we only kill people off to experience new POVs, and 'cause of dem dialogues(which makes up 70% of a new gameplay, of course). 

[SporkFu]

I agree - and all the other clan leaders. Therefore I would suggest he is more representative of the Krogan as a whole.

Having Wrex and Eve alive is presented as pretty much 'cure the genophage please'. Wreav throws a spanner into the works I feel.

All the other clan leaders were not necessarily like Wreav. Wrex had a lot of allies. I think Wreav may have an easier time convincing them to go to war than Wrex would convincing them not to, though. 

 

Wrex's role in ME3 was absolutely confusing for me given what I knew of him so far. When you first meet him in the first game, he gets in trouble with C-Sec and then kills Fist, who was unarmed. If you talk to him later on the Normandy he'll tell you how he wanted to kill a good friend for money. The job he did for Saren was a piracy job. ("Checking bodies for valuables").

Bring him with you on Noveria, and he'll tell you how he had freelancer jobs here eliminating businessmen. Later he'll demand you to find him something to kill to get his blood pumping. Finally he'll make a strong case for killing the Rachni Queen using the same arguments that others use to justify the genophage. So in conclusion he was a pirate, a contract killer and overall a rotten and ruthless bastard (and I don't even mean it that negative or try to bash him, it's what made him interesting). He was also a prime example for me why people considered Krogans as dangerous.

Now in the third game all of a sudden I am supposed to believe that Wrex is some kind of wise and peaceful leader. He makes himself look like a pacifist, Eve tells you how he's the great hope for Krogans and no one seems even a bit worried about him. Even though he couldn't solve the situation on Sur'kesh peacefully. Padok Wiks had to step in to stop a gunfight. Even though he couldn't solve the situation with Wreav on Tuchanka peacefully. Eve had to step in. It was ridicoulous. In my 4 playthrougs I had Wrex one time, shook my head so many times in disbelief, and after that made sure I had Wreav in charge.

With Wreav the Tuchanka arc is actually quite satisfying for me. With Wrex it's messed up.  If I at least could let my Shepard express some of the doubts that I had about Wrex it would be ok, but when I finally sabotaged (I also only cured with Wreav) and my Shepard got confronted by Wrex, the game makes her say "The other Krogans aren't like you Wrex".

You're skipping over the two-and-a-half to three years between the Battle of the Citadel and the reaper invasion that Wrex spent on Tuchanka becoming a leader, trying to drag the rest of the krogan along with him. 

[RatThing]

 

You're skipping over the two-and-a-half to three years between the Battle of the Citadel and the reaper invasion that Wrex spent on Tuchanka becoming a leader, trying to drag the rest of the krogan along with him. 

I'm skipping one scene in the second game, a scene where he headbutts a Krogan for speaking. I don't see how this should change anything. He had already been trying to become a leader and give Krogans new directions before, I'm aware of that. But he was also ruthless and obsessed wit violence and war.

[SporkFu]

I'm skipping one scene in the second game, a scene where he headbutts a Krogan for speaking. I don't see how this should change anything. He had already been trying to become a leader and give Krogans new directions before, I'm aware of that. But he was also ruthless and obsessed wit violence and war.

I dunno if headbutting a rival clan leader, who is being an ass at the time, means Wrex is obsessed with violence. That's their culture. 

[RatThing]

He was obsessed with it in the first game. This scene didn't do anything to correct that image.

[SporkFu]

It's a show of strength, it's how krogan do things. Wrex had to put Uvenk in his place. And Uvenk respected it. He didn't threaten to sue him or anything.

[RanetheViking]

I'm skipping one scene in the second game, a scene where he headbutts a Krogan for speaking. I don't see how this should change anything. He had already been trying to become a leader and give Krogans new directions before, I'm aware of that. But he was also ruthless and obsessed wit violence and war.

He's a damn krogan. What do you expect him to do, dress as santa claus and be nice to everyone?

 

Eve said krogan males evolved to be selfish, but Wrex is different. He cares about his people, not just his own glory. But at the end of the day he's still a KROGAN!. 

 

So, he was a merc and a pirate? You mean like Jedore, Jack and Dahlia Dantius. Like Tonn Actus or Helena Blake.

He had to survive when he left Tuchanka. Was he supposed to work in a florist or something? (now there's an image)

 

At least the krogan are up front about things and if they don't like you or something they're not going to hold back.

[SporkFu]

He's a damn krogan. What do you expect him to do, dress as santa claus and be nice to everyone?

 

Eve said krogan males evolved to be selfish, but Wrex is different. He cares about his people, not just his own glory. But at the end of the day he's still a KROGAN!. 

 

So, he was a merc and a pirate? You mean like Jedore, Jack and Dahlia Dantius. Like Tonn Actus or Helena Blake.

He had to survive when he left Tuchanka. Was he supposed to work in a florist or something? (now there's an image)

 

At least the krogan are up front about things and if they don't like you or something they're not going to hold back.

"We are who we are, Shepard." 

[RatThing]

He's a damn krogan. What do you expect him to do, dress as santa claus and be nice to everyone?

 

Eve said krogan males evolved to be selfish, but Wrex is different. He cares about his people, not just his own glory. But at the end of the day he's still a KROGAN!. 

 

So, he was a merc and a pirate? You mean like Jedore, Jack and Dahlia Dantius. Like Tonn Actus or Helena Blake.

He had to survive when he left Tuchanka. Was he supposed to work in a florist or something? (now there's an image)

 

At least the krogan are up front about things and if they don't like you or something they're not going to hold back.

First of all, let me be up front about this. Lose your attitude or ****** off.

 

Second of all. I  understand very well that he is what he is because he is a Krogan and that it's their culture or their nature. And that is exactly why I still would have doubts about him being the Krogan leader. Yet the game doesn't let you express any of these doubts, on the contrary. Everyone acts like he is the only hope for a peaceful coexisting with the Krogans (like this "food taster" nonsense). In the first game he cared about his people all right, but no one else. The situation with the Rachni Queen on Noveria showed that very clearly.

 

Also I'm not making a case for the genophage or against the Krogans here, I just ask for a little consistency. First game Wrex and third game Wrex are different people for me. Most of all I'd have liked in this RPG to have the options to react accordingly. Wrex's still a pirate and a killer, so let me treat him as such. It's like with Thane. Why am I supposed to wish him the best when he's still a damn assassin.

[RatThing]

Also "he needed to survive" doesn't pass as an excuse to become a killer in my book. Should we excuse everything Morinth did because she is what she is?

[von uber]

Wrex in the third game (and especially citadel dlc) is completely different to me1 wrex.

[SporkFu]

So's Garrus. No biggie. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

Wrex in the third game (and especially citadel dlc) is completely different to me1 wrex.

 

Ya, in the Citadel DLC he is kind of a mascot/punchline.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

And you judge Wrex after you've shoved that merc out the window? After you're working for an organization that kidnaps children for sick experiments to unlock biotic powers in humans? After you've executed Rana Thanoptis? After you've executed Balak? After you've murdered Sgt. Cathka? After you've made that batarian drink that poison? After you've shot Conrad in the foot? After you've possibly let the council die? After you've told Jack that a 'bullet in the head solves everything.' Don't you dare judge him. Don't you dare.