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Do the elves really need a homeland


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#401
Kalamah

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they are the same as the Chantry, both good and ill. One is not better than the other. 

So you keep saying, but it seems it's more of a personal vendetta when you keep insisting based on flimsy "evidence" that you misunderstand, either willfully or otherwise. :P


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#402
Roamingmachine

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So pray tell... In this clearly hypothetical Elven nation.... Would a human be able to one day become king, or its equivalent, of the nation?

No.
Elven. Nation. <.<

#403
Hanako Ikezawa

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This would be a very reasonable compromise, and one that I hope occurs if the elves ever form a nation.  With the clans spread out and disorganized, however, it would do more harm than good to allow the Andrastian religion to take root among the People.

Why would they be spread out though? This was when they consolidated and formed a nation. 



#404
Hanako Ikezawa

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So you keep saying, but it seems it's more of a personal vendetta when you keep insisting based on flimsy "evidence" that you misunderstand, either willfully or otherwise. :P

I have no vendetta against the Dalish. Don't know where you got that. Just because I point out that they have flaws in their culture doesn't mean I hate them. Ask me about any human, dwarf, or qunari culture and I'd do the same thing. 



#405
Roamingmachine

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Why would they be spread out though? This was when they consolidated and formed a nation.

Nomads don't become settlers overnight.

#406
EmperorSahlertz

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No.
Elven. Nation. <.<

So the nation would, by its very core, not promote equality and humans would always be second grade citizens in the country?



#407
Hanako Ikezawa

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Nomads don't become settlers overnight.

They are all already gathered for their 10 year meeting. 



#408
Kalamah

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I have no vendetta against the Dalish. Don't know where you got that. Just because I point out that they have flaws in their culture doesn't mean I hate them. Ask me about any human, dwarf, or qunari culture and I'd do the same thing. 

The "flaws" you say they have are comparing apples and oranges. They don't force city elves to convert, and this somehow makes them as bad as the Chantry who do force conversions. Okaaaay. <_<


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#409
Kalamah

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So the nation would, by its very core, not promote equality and humans would always be second grade citizens in the country?

Oh yeah, the humans are great at that! ...oh wait. :lol:


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#410
Hanako Ikezawa

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The "flaws" you say they have are comparing apples and oranges. They don't force city elves to convert, and this somehow makes them as bad as the Chantry who do force conversions. Okaaaay. <_<

Show me where the Chantry forces conversions. 



#411
Icy Magebane

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Why would they be spread out though? This was when they consolidated and formed a nation. 

My initial points were regarding the current state of the elves and the Dalish desire for new additions to adapt to the existing culture.  I agree with you that it would be ideal if the two religions could coexist if the elves ever actually form a nation.



#412
Roamingmachine

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So the nation would, by its very core, not promote equality and humans would always be second grade citizens in the country?

Again, where does it state elves have to be some kind of fantasy hippies that strive for equality for all? Humanity has held its boot on the throat of elvenkind of thedas for a long time. At this point humanity should be thankful if they only lose the foot in the boot. I seriously doubt that the elves would allow any kind of permanent human residency within their borders.
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#413
Kalamah

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Show me where the Chantry forces conversions. 

... :blink: You have got to be trolling.



#414
Hanako Ikezawa

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My initial points were regarding the current state of the elves and the Dalish desire for new additions to adapt to the existing culture.

That's fine, but I was talking about that when all the Elves gather to for the new nation, they would put what was suggested in as a policy. 



#415
LobselVith8

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So pray tell... In this clearly hypothetical Elven nation.... Would a human be able to one day become king, or its equivalent, of the nation?

 

The entire point of an elven kingdom is that the elves have self-determination over their own future, not to leave them at the mercy of humans who view them as (in Duncan's words) "less than people". We've seen what happens to elves under human rule - whether it's the purge in the Denerim Alienage that left countless dead, including children in the orphanage, or the massacre of thousands of elves in Halamshiral because Celene didn't want to appear weak - and I think an alternative is in order where the elves are masters of their destiny.


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#416
Xilizhra

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So pray tell... In this clearly hypothetical Elven nation.... Would a human be able to one day become king, or its equivalent, of the nation?

At the same time an elf could become king of a human nation.



#417
Xilizhra

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Show me where the Chantry forces conversions. 

The entire history of the city elves after the conquest of the Dales.


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#418
LobselVith8

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Show me where the Chantry forces conversions. 

 

You mean, like the elves who were forced to convert after the fall of the Dales?


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#419
Basement Cat

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Show me where the Chantry forces conversions. 

Hello, exalted marches?

With so much influence over the people, the Chantry can exert considerable political pressure on the ruling classes in many areas of concern. In extraordinary times, and in deference to Andraste, the Divine may also be moved to declare an Exalted March. These religious crusades have mobilized armies of thousands to destroy the heretical enemies of the Maker. The first March after Andraste's death was against the elves of the Dales.[10] The next four were against Tevinter, and the most recent was against theQunari. Tevinter also took part in the latest march


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#420
Icy Magebane

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So the nation would, by its very core, not promote equality and humans would always be second grade citizens in the country?

Do you also object to the fact that this is true for every nation that currently exists in Thedas?  Can a human become king of Orzammar?  Can a Qunari become ruler of Orlais?


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#421
Hanako Ikezawa

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... :blink: You have got to be trolling.

No, I'm not. I have yet to see any evidence of the Chantry dragging people off to convert or giving them no choice. If they did, the Dalish wouldn't exist at all because they'd have never been able to leave.

 

And accusing people of trolling can be considered trolling.  



#422
Statare

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Show me where the Chantry forces conversions. 

 

The Exalted Marches against the Elves were justified that the Elves were heathens. Part of the goal of that March was to convert the Elves of the Dales. Forcibly. With swords.


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#423
Icy Magebane

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Show me where the Chantry forces conversions. 

Two words:  Exalted March.


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#424
Xilizhra

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No, I'm not. I have yet to see any evidence of the Chantry dragging people off to convert or giving them no choice. If they did, the Dalish wouldn't exist at all because they'd have never been able to leave.

 

And accusing people of trolling can be considered trolling.  

A country has a lot of people to crush into submission; the Dalish are the ones who escaped.


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#425
Hanako Ikezawa

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The entire history of the city elves after the conquest of the Dales.

You mean, like the elves who were forced to convert after the fall of the Dales?

Hello, exalted marches?

With so much influence over the people, the Chantry can exert considerable political pressure on the ruling classes in many areas of concern. In extraordinary times, and in deference to Andraste, the Divine may also be moved to declare an Exalted March. These religious crusades have mobilized armies of thousands to destroy the heretical enemies of the Maker. The first March after Andraste's death was against the elves of the Dales.[10] The next four were against Tevinter, and the most recent was against theQunari. Tevinter also took part in the latest march

 

Exalted Marches are militant actions. That's like saying the Crusades was about converting Muslims. They weren't, they were about capturing Jerusalem. 

 

And again, if they gave no choice in the matter the Dalish wouldn't exist at all.