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TK514, on 28 Jul 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:So which is it? Do the Templars care about elves, or not? Sounds to me like they could care less about elves, and are only interested in mages.
are any humans really that interested in elves? The whole series pretty much shows an all encompassing feeling of "Knife-ears are pretty to look at but not good for much else"
Considering that the chief goal of the Chantry is to spread the chant of light to all of Thedas so the Maker can return, not being part of the religion constitutes a threat.
Yet they are fine with the Dwarves being believers of the Stone, only contemplating an EXalted March(which may be a rumor since Epilogue Slides are to be considered such) when they attack the Chantry there.
Yet they are fine with the Dwarves being believers of the Stone, only contemplating an EXalted March(which may be a rumor since Epilogue Slides are to be considered such) when they attack the Chantry there.
The dwarves are in a virtually impenetrable area (that the human nations can't reach even when they all launch an attack in the Harrowmont ending where the Anvil is spared) and they are also the only ones who can successfully mine raw lyrium; the Chantry can't do anything about the dwarves without disrupting the lyrium trade that their templars and mages depend on.
Yet they are fine with the Dwarves being believers of the Stone, only contemplating an EXalted March(which may be a rumor since Epilogue Slides are to be considered such) when they attack the Chantry there.
Dwarves control the Lyrium trade. Raw lyrium is toxic to all except Dwarves who have a resistance to it. They're not fine with it, they just have no choice.
The dwarves can collapse the entrances to their domain and not miss the surface one bit. And they control the lyrium supply. The chantry cannot win against them.Yet they are fine with the Dwarves being believers of the Stone, only contemplating an EXalted March(which may be a rumor since Epilogue Slides are to be considered such) when they attack the Chantry there.
are any humans really that interested in elves? The whole series pretty much shows an all encompassing feeling of "Knife-ears are pretty to look at but not good for much else"
I don't think they are, really. The main objection humans seem to have with the Dalish is that the Dalish move into an area, deny access to those who actually live there, overhunt the local wildlife, and move on.
Yet they are fine with the Dwarves being believers of the Stone, only contemplating an EXalted March(which may be a rumor since Epilogue Slides are to be considered such) when they attack the Chantry there.
If they go to war with the Dwarves, they loose access to the lyrium that they need to control the Templars. There is no reason why they would needlessly antagonize a group integral to their continued dominance.
What point are we trying to make with this whole Chantry discussion, anyway? I got lost somewhere along the way.
Not really. I'm mostly just laughing at your ridiculous attempts to pretend the Dalish are no better than an oppressive institution that upholds human supremacy at the direct expense of elves and their culture. Oh, and the fact you think you're making any points that are remotely valid. Your stubborn cherrypicking of stuff to suit your grudge is pure entertainment now.
Do you even read my posts? I'm assuming no since I want the elves to have their own nation rather than "uphold the human supremacy at the direct expense of elves and their culture."
Arguably, the Chantry stopped that Exalted March because it was an expensive, bloody war (that they porbably could not win) and was destabilizing their position at home (because they aligned themselves with the Tevinter and by extension, the Black Divine). Long wars fought on foreign soil over foreign conflicts with ex-enemies tend not to be popular, and the Exalted Marches are as much a way to whip their followers into a pro-Orlesian Chantry frenzy as anything.
And that's my point. The Exalted March was a military action not to spread Chantry influence, but stop the Qunari spreading theirs. How is this different than what the Dales did for example when they pushed into Orlais after the Chantry "didn't get the hint" with the missionaries?
They need their own homeland like the Jews in our universe needed one.
So which is it? Do the Templars care about elves, or not? Sounds to me like they could care less about elves, and are only interested in mages.
She doesn't care about their well-being. She has no regrets taking a child and torturing him with fire for information, and was ready to order an attack on the entire camp to get one mage that they knew of.
And what did the chantry do with the people who had converted to the qun? The difference is that the Dales made a purely military action to say 'bugger off' to the humans. Orlais and chantry were interfering with their internal matters and the Dales responded. They did not care what the humans believed, what mattered was that they were orlesians.And that's my point. The Exalted March was a military action not to spread Chantry influence, but stop the Qunari spreading theirs. How is this different than what the Dales did for example when they pushed into Orlais after the Chantry "didn't get the hint" with the missionaries?
The first point is technically true. As for it being deserved or not: history is written by the winners.
And play nice. No need to get personal.
I always liked the quote in my sig better. "War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
The elves need a homeland, sure. But at the end of the day that won't solve the multitude of problems that currently plague them. The elves need equality within the lands they already reside, Sadly though I don't see that happening soon.
She doesn't care about their well-being. She has no regrets taking a child and torturing him with fire for information, and was ready to order an attack on the entire camp to get one mage that they knew of.
So if there were no mages, they wouldn't have bothered. Meaning they don't care about the elves, just the mages.
The elves need a homeland, sure. But at the end of the day that won't solve the multitude of problems that currently plague them. The elves need equality within the lands they already reside, Sadly though I don't see that happening soon.
Agreed. While having a homeland is nice, it won't do them any good if their neighbors don't see them as people deserving of one. But if elves were seen even as equal as human commoners, then it would be different.
I feel they can establish themselves into a new homeland away from human lands, but they just are either too prideful, stubborn, or fearful to do so. It seems they just remain nomads and focus on the past, I think it would be nice to see an elven establishment, I would like to see an elven city, but I will go with no they won't have one any time soon (not that they don't deserve one) because they're just so focused on the past and being involved in the past. Not to mention, to hear they were like the orlesians... no, (and a little like tevinter cause their dreamers (i think) ruled)
Getting personal, are we?
A small, determined minority can make the majority bleed for decades. And it is hard to mistreat a population that does not have a presence within your borders. This is the last reply I will give to you on this until you cool down.
A minority can only make the majority bleed if the majority doesn't have the will to deal with them (usually a lot of politics involved), or if it is hard to track them down.
Do you think a nation is hard to track down? Do you think the humans of Thedas would have any qualms about putting the Elves down hard this time?
*snip*
And that's my point. The Exalted March was a military action not to spread Chantry influence, but stop the Qunari spreading theirs. How is this different than what the Dales did for example when they pushed into Orlais after the Chantry "didn't get the hint" with the missionaries?
The Exalted Marches evolved over time, I'd say. They've always been an imperialistic tactic of the Orlesian Chantry. Yet, that first Exalted March was mainly justified by the Chantry claiming the Elves were savages who practiced creepy heatheny things. I don't go into the battle of Red Crossing because there is no way (yet) to know what happened there. Either way, it became an imperialistic action later, as the Orlesian Chantry annexed the Dales under the Empire. At first it was just a way to convert the Elves. Occupation came after they won. So they are now military/imperialistic pageant shows by the Orlesian Chantry, but that first one was all about forced conversion and the criminalizing of Elven Cultural Practices.
So essentially, you have a philosophical objection to how all nations on Thedas are governed, thus you object to the creation of a new nation that follows this pattern. Is that accurate? If so, that's fine, but what would you have happen instead?
Of course I object to all the nations of Thedas. Feudalism is NOT a great form of government. In my eyes it is even worse than dictatorship.
Personally I would rather the Elves get a social rights movement going for them and use non-violent means. Of course, Thedas is a violent place so it is a longshot, but you don't solve issues with even more violence. But equality has to evolve organically, it cannot be forced. And if there is one thing that I am for then it is equality.
The Exalted Marches evolved over time, I'd say. They've always been an imperialistic tactic of the Orlesian Chantry. Yet, that first Exalted March was mainly justified by the Chantry claiming the Elves were savages who practiced creepy heatheny things. I don't go into the battle of Red Crossing because there is no way (yet) to know what happened there. Either way, it became an imperialistic action later, as the Orlesian Chantry annexed the Dales under the Empire. At first it was just a way to convert the Elves. Occupation came after they won. So they are now military/imperialistic pageant shows by the Orlesian Chantry, but that first one was all about forced conversion and the criminalizing of Elven Cultural Practices.
The Exalted March against the Dales happened a year after Red Crossing.
So if there were no mages, they wouldn't have bothered. Meaning they don't care about the elves, just the mages.
The Dalish explicitly mention receiving threats to convert to the Andrastian faith in Act III, and we already know that followers of another faith are viewed as "heathens" by some Andrastians. It's an issue that some are considering about a hypothetical elven kingdom.
The Dalish explicitly mention receiving threats to convert to the Andrastian faith in Act III, and we already know that followers of another faith are viewed as "heathens" by some Andrastians. It's an issue that some are considering about a hypothetical elven kingdom.
From the Templars? That's an honest question. I just finished a playthrough and never saw that dialog.
From the Templars? That's an honest question. I just finished a playthrough and never saw that dialog.
The Sabrae clan simply said humans; they never specified that they were templars.
The Sabrae clan simply said humans; they never specified that they were templars.
I'd half expect Petrice to lead Varnell up the mountain and claim the Dalish were hanging around in support of the Qunari.
Though obviously not in act 3.
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