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As I said earlier, the Haitian Revolution is probably a better example, as they were pretty cut off from the world afterwards for a time, like the elves would be.
the elves wouldn't be cut off, there'd be armies storming their lands to throw them out inside a fortnight
Why the hell are we talking about history on a Dragon Age thread? Can we get back to the issue at hand?
Because this thread has become Dalish. Always looking at the past. We ran short on DA's past, so we substituted our own.
the elves wouldn't be cut off, there'd be armies storming their lands to throw them out inside a fortnight
Maybe later. The nations would have to recover from the crisis first. I don't think Orlais would want foreign armies marching through it after a civil war just to squash the Dales again.
People should choose Parallels that actually fit then.
It was a reference to people fighting to emancipate themselves from an empire, which is an apt (if not exact) comparison to the Dales breaking free from the Orlesian Empire.
Given some of the information in "Asunder" and "The Masked Empire", it may be an option for the Inquisitor to help the elves gain autonomy for the elven kingdom of the Dales.
the elves wouldn't be cut off, there'd be armies storming their lands to throw them out inside a fortnight
It would be funny to watch i bet.
It was a reference to people fighting to emancipate themselves from an empire, which is an apt (if not exact) comparison to the Dales breaking free from the Orlesian Empire.
Apparently not as several people including myself have pointed out 
Maybe later. The nations would have to recover from the crisis first. I don't think Orlais would want foreign armies marching through it after a civil war just to squash the Dales again.
they'd probably be the ones marching, we saw in TME that oth sides are willing to put their grievances aside for a time
the elves wouldn't be cut off, there'd be armies storming their lands to throw them out inside a fortnight
If the elven kingdom of the Dales has the support of the Inquisition, I have strong doubts that would be the case.
they'd probably be the ones marching, we saw in TME that oth sides are willing to put their grievances aside for a time
If that was the case, the Inquisition wouldn't be necessary since the civil war would have ceased to deal with the crisis of the Breach in Orlais.
Mark Darrah and Mike Laidlaw have both said that the Inquisition is "in opposition to the Chantry", with Laidlaw adding that the Inquisitor isn't a "puppet of the church". David Gaider said that the Inquisitor doesn't work for the Chantry. Cameron Lee was the one who specified that Cassandra broke the Inquisition away from the Chantry after the cataclysm that kills the leadership of the Chantry and the mages (who attended the peace meeting).
None of which have anything to do with your supposed Chantry disarray and power vacuum. I've never disagreed that the Inquisition is separate from the Chantry. Only that the Inquisition will, in any way, damage or supplant the Chantry, or that the Chantry itself is in any danger of losing its grip on Thedas.
Queen Anora is also willing to give the Hinterlands to the Dalish in respect to the sacrifice made by the elven Hero of Ferelden who came from the Sabrae Clan, and that wasn't "convenient" for her; she has progressive ideas. Also, I'm talking about a treaty between Ferelden and an autonomous kingdom of the Dales, not about the developers (possibly) handwaving the Dalish Boon; I have a fairly good idea that more than a few Fereldens wouldn't want to see Orlais wield the same level of power that it once had. We also know that the army will follow the ruler's command, as the Crown can provide support to the dwarves in the Deep Roads who are trying to reclaim lost thaigs.
Queen Anora or King Alistair, it doesn't matter. It was an extremely convenient act, and it ends the same way.
Monarch: "In reward for your service/sacrifice, I decree that you may settle in this land rendered almost completely uninhabitable by the Blight. Huzzah!"
People of Ferelden: "Nope. Not even in the Blightlands, knife-ear."
Monarch: "Oops."
If the Ferelden army is willing to tolerate going into the Deep Roads to fight darkspawn, I think they would be willing to tolerate fighting Orlesians.
You're going to want to reread the section you were replying to, because you misunderstood it. If the Ferelden people on the border with the Dales decided to instigate something with the elves, do you really think the Ferelden crown is going to send its army to put down Fereldens on behalf of those elves? No. Not going to happen. In addition to it being illegal in Ferelden to do so, Alistair/Anora would find themselves former nobility faster than you could say "Landsmeet".
The Dales and Ferelden are actually separated by the Frostback Mountains, and (it seems) the land mass that would connect the two through the Frostback Mountains leads to the entrance to Orzammar.
There are other passes through the Frostbacks, and, in spite of Amaranthine, there is still land trade that goes right through the Dales. Ferelden humans and Dales elves would be in constant contact with one another. Friction!
I think a treaty would help matters, and I'm not as pessimistic about it as you are, especially as Orlais is dealing with a civil war and the crisis of the Breach (that may substantially weaken it in the same way that the civil war and the Blight weakened Ferelden). That said, I don't disagree that the Inquisitor might need to take further steps to nullify the threat that Orlais can pose to Ferelden and the Dales.
Ferelden doesn't need to anger its populace, or other nations, by forming a treaty with elves. And if it did, for whatever reason, there's not a nation in Thedas that would blink an eye or think less of the Crown if they turned around and fed it to a mabari the moment it became inconvenient. They're just elves, after all. And even without a Dales buffer state, Orlais won't pose a threat to Ferelden again for years, possibly decades. The Civil War and the ongoing Nevarran threat make sure of that. Humans, however, pose a significant threat to the elves. And the people of Ferelden, with or without the blessing of the monarchy, will engage in violence against an independent Dales, and will aid other humans, regardless of nationality, in putting the elves 'in their place'.
If the elven kingdom of the Dales has the support of the Inquisition, I have strong doubts that would be the case.
If that was the case, the Inquisition wouldn't be necessary since the civil war would have ceased to deal with the crisis of the Breach in Orlais.
I clearly can't convince you that we won't be able to do that since I haven't played the game yet, but I am extremely doubtful that such an option will exist.
An uppity City Elf isn't quite the threat that a resurrected Dales is
The dalish should experiment more with alchemy and blood magic. Make big, hulking, monster elves to crush their enemis. Have them spit fire and shoot lazers from their ears. Then the giant elves can rebel and poison the dalish so they have to wear full body suits or whatever.
What is it with this juvenile power fantasy that the Inquisition will somehow be able to challenge entire nations in displays of power? That isn't going to happen....
What is it with this juvenile power fantasy that the Inquisition will somehow be able to challenge entire nations in displays of power? That isn't going to happen....
I mean seriously, Before its civil war Orlais was debatably the strongest nation in Thedas.
What is it with this juvenile power fantasy that the Inquisition will somehow be able to challenge entire nations in displays of power? That isn't going to happen....
Particularly given most of the Inquisition forces will be human, and, unless this mythical 'third side' to the Orlesian Civil War comes to pass, they'll be Orlesian humans. On loan. From Orlais.
Did you know that Shartan converted to Andrasteanism?
World of Thedas Page 43:
"At the Battle of the Valarian Fields, the elven slave Shartan takes Maferath's side and leads other elves in the fight against their Tevinter opressors. He later converts and is made a disciple, only to have his writings supressed following the Exalted March of the Dales."
One wonders what he'd have thought of the Dales kicking missionaries out.
None of which have anything to do with your supposed Chantry disarray and power vacuum. I've never disagreed that the Inquisition is separate from the Chantry. Only that the Inquisition will, in any way, damage or supplant the Chantry, or that the Chantry itself is in any danger of losing its grip on Thedas.
I've addressed that the Inquisition may fill in a power vacuum because the Chantry is in disarray with the demise of Chantry leadership, and it's not "supposed" that the Chantry is in disarray when the developers explicitly say that the Chantry is in disarray, as I pointed out in my last post; you apparently need to re-read what I wrote previously since you seem to have already forgotten it.
Queen Anora or King Alistair, it doesn't matter. It was an extremely convenient act, and it ends the same way.
Monarch: "In reward for your service/sacrifice, I decree that you may settle in this land rendered almost completely uninhabitable by the Blight. Huzzah!"
People of Ferelden: "Nope. Not even in the Blightlands, knife-ear."
Monarch: "Oops."
You seem to be more privy to facts about the Hinterlands than the rest of us are, since it's only speculation among players right now that the Dalish aren't managing the Hinterlands and that the Dalish Boon may have been handwaved, in the same way most outcomes for Origins were. Until the developers clarify the matter, I don't anticipate it'll be anything more than speculation for the time being.
You're going to want to reread the section you were replying to, because you misunderstood it. If the Ferelden people on the border with the Dales decided to instigate something with the elves, do you really think the Ferelden crown is going to send its army to put down Fereldens on behalf of those elves? No. Not going to happen. In addition to it being illegal in Ferelden to do so, Alistair/Anora would find themselves former nobility faster than you could say "Landsmeet".
Please stop acting as though you know exactly what King Alistair or Queen Anora would do. You don't. You're free to speculate, but please don't confuse your conjecture for actual fact. As for the point about the two territories, the Frostback Mountains generally separate the Dales from Ferelden. The border between the two nations are the Frostback Mountains; a territorial dispute over treacherous mountains is highly unlikely when none of trade through the two regions is a necessity for survival.
There are other passes through the Frostbacks, and, in spite of Amaranthine, there is still land trade that goes right through the Dales. Ferelden humans and Dales elves would be in constant contact with one another. Friction!
Trade that isn't a necessity for survival as Ferelden only recently started to trade with Orlais again, which had been barred for some time after the end of the Orlesian occupation. Alternative trade routes can likely be found, and some of that trade can be shifted to through Amaranthine, especially if it's Orlesian cargo that's been imported and exported.
Ferelden doesn't need to anger its populace, or other nations, by forming a treaty with elves. And if it did, for whatever reason, there's not a nation in Thedas that would blink an eye or think less of the Crown if they turned around and fed it to a mabari the moment it became inconvenient. They're just elves, after all. And even without a Dales buffer state, Orlais won't pose a threat to Ferelden again for years, possibly decades. The Civil War and the ongoing Nevarran threat make sure of that. Humans, however, pose a significant threat to the elves. And the people of Ferelden, with or without the blessing of the monarchy, will engage in violence against an independent Dales, and will aid other humans, regardless of nationality, in putting the elves 'in their place'.
Your opinion notwithstanding, the ruler of Ferelden may feel want to sign a treaty with the elves of an independent Dales, especially given how the Crown is well aware that some in the empire have an interest in "reclaiming their former province"; having an ally could dissuade some of the warmongers from launching another attack against Ferelden, especially if it meant dealing with a two-front war, and leaving it vulnerable to Nevarra as well.
Did you know that Shartan converted to Andrasteanism?
World of Thedas Page 43:
"At the Battle of the Valarian Fields, the elven slave Shartan takes Maferath's side and leads other elves in the fight against their Tevinter opressors. He later converts and is made a disciple, only to have his writings supressed following the Exalted March of the Dales."
One wonders what he'd have thought of the Dales kicking missionaries out.
He probably would have led the crusade against them, himself.
I think the Inquisition will be more powerful than most give it credit for. Especially seen as how we're the only organisation that can save thedas from utter ruination, if I was the Inquisitor I'd exploit the hell out of that.
Did you know that Shartan converted to Andrasteanism?
World of Thedas Page 43:
"At the Battle of the Valarian Fields, the elven slave Shartan takes Maferath's side and leads other elves in the fight against their Tevinter opressors. He later converts and is made a disciple, only to have his writings supressed following the Exalted March of the Dales."
One wonders what he'd have thought of the Dales kicking missionaries out.
Considering that the apparition of Shartan said his people were betrayed, perhaps the real deal would have felt that the humans trying to impose their religion on the elves was wrong.
Did you know that Shartan converted to Andrasteanism?
World of Thedas Page 43:
"At the Battle of the Valarian Fields, the elven slave Shartan takes Maferath's side and leads other elves in the fight against their Tevinter opressors. He later converts and is made a disciple, only to have his writings supressed following the Exalted March of the Dales."
One wonders what he'd have thought of the Dales kicking missionaries out.
Shartan's writings and/or his role in the Chant being suppressed just boggles the mind. Worst idea ever, why not just focus on his discipleship to encourage elves to assimilate or something. I really hope that decision gets overturned by another Divine.
I think the Inquisition will be more powerful than most give it credit for. Especially seen as how we're the only organisation that can save thedas from utter ruination, if I was the Inquisitor I'd exploit the hell out of that.
I think its less that the inquisition is especially powerful than that they're the only ones with resources that are focused on the Breaches, everyone else is wrapped up in their own crap.
Considering that the apparition of Shartan said his people were betrayed, perhaps the real deal would have felt that the humans trying to impose their religion on the elves was wrong.
A missionary presence isn't imposing religion by any stretch.
A missionary presence isn't imposing religion by any stretch.
Considering that they refused to accept 'no' as an answer, I'm not so sure.
Shartan's writings and/or his role in the Chant being suppressed just boggles the mind. Worst idea ever, why not just focus on his discipleship to encourage elves to assimilate or something. I really hope that decision gets overturned by another Divine.
I like the way you think. Using Shartan as an example of how the Dales were so treacherous and base that they had forsaken even the hero responsible for leading them to freedom would have been a brilliant PR move.
But a lot like work. Just easier to sweep him under the rug and pretend the Chantry was always human-driven after the fact.
Considering that the apparition of Shartan said his people were betrayed, perhaps the real deal would have felt that the humans trying to impose their religion on the elves was wrong.
Maybe he was referring to Maferath's betrayal.
Regardless, he was an Andrastean. I don't think he would have had an issue with missionaries preaching to those who would listen.
I like the way you think. Using Shartan as an example of how the Dales were so treacherous and base that they had forsaken even the hero responsible for leading them to freedom would have been a brilliant PR move.
But a lot like work. Just easier to sweep him under the rug and pretend the Chantry was always human-driven after the fact.
It's true. The Chantry should be teaching how the greatest of elves, Shartan, recognized the true god and abandoned his false creators and how he united with humans to defeat the Imperium. But the Dales betrayed his memory by retreating into their forests and refusing any contact with humanity and the Maker and the Dalish continue to offend the Maker to this day and assaulting their brothers, humanity.
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