2113 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Oh please...

Anyway, I don't know what DA][ you played, but the one I did, Merrill was delusional and just told herself some major BS to make herself feel good because she screwed up. And culture shock shouldn't even exist for someone like Merrill who was supposed to become a Keeper and lead her clan. It's not like she grew up under a rock and they just found her. And if you're still in shock after 6 years of living among humans, then there's something very wrong with you.

 

You mean Dragon Age II? Merrill wasn't delusional; she was Dalish, and she was dealing with culture shock in a society that was foreign to her (a human city-state). I see similar criticisms about her culture shock used in the real world when people are acting racist towards people who are dealing with cultural differences in a society that they aren't accustomed to. It's something I find rather repugnant.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Then haven't we met a single clan that doesn't act like that?

 

If you are going to resort to a "No true Scotsman" argument, you need to at least provide some evidence of what a true scotsman is

Well there was one clan in dragon age redemption but their keeper is dumb as hell.

[Saints]

The Inquisition is an organization trying to find "the seeds of chaos". Who is to know that the Inquisition will last at least a decade after the problem is over as the last one was dissolved. The Chantry can also call upon the help of other countries to form armies to wipe out the Inquisition and the elves if they decide to help. None will really help the elves in the long term.

[Xilizhra]

You mean Dragon Age II? Merrill wasn't delusional; she was Dalish, and she was dealing with culture shock in a society that was foreign to her (a human city-state). I see similar criticisms about her culture shock used in the real world when people are acting racist towards people who are dealing with cultural differences in a society that they aren't accustomed to. It's something I find rather repugnant.

In any case, her issues basically stopped after Act 1.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

 repugnant.

 

Lob can you do us and any future discussions a favor and diversify a little?

 

You use this word faaaaar too often. It has rather lost its punch.

 

Maybe Abhorrent, or disgusting could serve as an occasional stand in?

[jtav]

I think the Dalish are going to have to undergo some pretty drastic cultural changes if they want to survive and thrive. Stop looking to Arlathan or the Dales, stop focusing so much on reclaiming the past. Build alliances with groups likely to help them. Because what I'm seeing is a clannish, hidebound culture that will eventually collapse under its own weight.

[Shadow Fox]

Well, this thread is wasting no time in climbing the slopes of Mount Lockdown.

It was nice knowing you.

 

I view them as a closer parallel to the Taino people of Puerto Rico, given their struggle against an imperialist power that threatened their freedom of religion and way of life.

I don't see how threatening defenseless peasants who wander too close to where you're illegally squatting is a "struggle"

[LobselVith8]

The Inquisition is an organization trying to find "the seeds of chaos". Who is to know that the Inquisition will last at least a decade after the problem is over as the last one was dissolved. The Chantry can also call upon the help of other countries to form armies to wipe out the Inquisition and the elves if they decide to help. None will really help the elves in the long term.

 

I think the issue would be that the Inquisitor is establishing a military presence throughout the region, is forging political alliances, can incorporate either the templars or mages as a militant arm of the organization, and is lead by a man or woman who is viewed with religious significance by the people. I'm not certain how much of a threat the Chantry could actually pose, given the circumstances; Lambert seemed to think the organization was basically toothless when he dissolved the Nevarran Accord, after all.

[Xilizhra]

I think the Dalish are going to have to undergo some pretty drastic cultural changes if they want to survive and thrive. Stop looking to Arlathan or the Dales, stop focusing so much on reclaiming the past. Build alliances with groups likely to help them. Because what I'm seeing is a clannish, hidebound culture that will eventually collapse under its own weight.

Given that no group except possibly the Inquisition is likely to help them, where do you think they should start?

[TK514]

I can't remember...Is this the first time for Merrillgate in this thread, or have we just come back to it?  It starts to blur together after a while.

[MissMagi]

"Good" is a subjective term. To do some good for some, you have to do bad to others.

Some people want to give the elves the Dales. This, in theory, it's good. Elves suffer much in human cities.

But it can lead to much "bad". First, there are many humans in the Dales, some are civillians living there, others are soldiers fighting in the civil war. All of them would have to be forcibly ejected regardless of their moral character, which is bad.

Then, it remains to be seen if the elves could mantain a state. We could be looking at cultural conflict between the Dalish and the City Elves, each with different notions of which direction the state should go. In fact, it could get even worse than that, there could be conflict between elves from different nations. I doubt Orlesian and Ferelden elves have any love lost for each other.

And what about conquest? The Dales would be the weakest nation in Thedas and the Chantry would accuse it of being composed of heretics who slaugthered and ejected the faithful. We could be looking at Exalted Marches or simple conquest. An attempt to do good could lead to much bad.

 

And that is assuming they suceed. The elves in Halamshiral rebelled but little good that did them when the Orlesian army arrived and burned the section of the city the rebel occupied in a couple of hours. If the elves try to do this and fail, their condition will just worse.

Who says giving the elves the Dales necessitates displacing the people who already live there?

For one thing, between the civil war and the Breach, many of those soldiers will not be coming home.

 

Not to mention the Exalted Plains (just one area within the Dales proper) is described as "a massive stretch of land".

 

As for potential conflict between the Dalish and the city elves, look at Rivain. If elves, humans, Andrastians and Qunari can coexist peacefully, certainly elves can.

 

The Chantry is in no position to call an Exalted March. They  no longer possess a martial arm. Their military strength is gone- the Templars, seekers, and Circle mages are preoccupied. Orlais is rife with civil war. The major players will be looking for support. What better time for the elves to parley?

[Xilizhra]

I can't remember...Is this the first time for Merrillgate in this thread, or have we just come back to it?  It starts to blur together after a while.

Does it matter? No one has anything new to say on this issue; some hate and some don't.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Does it matter? No one has anything new to say on this issue; some hate and some don't.

 

Some pity, don't forget that!

[TheJediSaint]

The Chantry is in no position to call an Exalted March. They  no longer possess a martial arm. Their military strength is gone- the Templars, seekers, and Circle mages are preoccupied. Orlais is rife with civil war. The major players will be looking for support. What better time for the elves to parley?

 

The Chantry's martial strength did not come from the Templars, but from their ability to call an Exalted March and  summon secular armies to their cause.

[TK514]

Does it matter? No one has anything new to say on this issue; some hate and some don't.

 

If it doesn't matter, why reply?

[LobselVith8]

I think the Dalish are going to have to undergo some pretty drastic cultural changes if they want to survive and thrive. Stop looking to Arlathan or the Dales, stop focusing so much on reclaiming the past. Build alliances with groups likely to help them. Because what I'm seeing is a clannish, hidebound culture that will eventually collapse under its own weight.

 

The Dalish are a nomadic society who have to keep on the move because they are under constant threat from Andrastian culture; the developers already pointed out that human lords or lynch mobs drive them off the land when they stay too long. We also know that templars can be a threat to the clan, which is mentioned by Merrill as part of the reason why the Dalish are nomadic. There's also their religious beliefs, which conflict with the Andrastian faith; the Sabrae Clan dealt with threats made against them to convert.

 

Basically, the Dalish can't focus on settling down and building a future for themselves until they have a homeland where they can be safe. For the time being, their life is a matter of survival.

[Xilizhra]

If it doesn't matter, why reply?

Ask them the same question.

[Steelcan]

The Chantry's martial strength did not come from the Templars, but from their ability to call an Exalted March and  summon secular armies to their cause.

but none of the Andrastian nations are really in a position to help

 

short of a qunari invasion or a resurrected Dales I don't see the issues being out aside

 

speaking of which... why don't the qunari invade.... Orlais is pre-occupied, Ferelden is weak, Nevarra can't stand alone, the Free Marches aren't powerful enough to stop them....

[LOLandStuff]

You mean Dragon Age II? Merrill wasn't delusional; she was Dalish, and she was dealing with culture shock in a society that was foreign to her (a human city-state). I see similar criticisms about her culture shock used in the real world when people are acting racist towards people who are dealing with cultural differences in a society that they aren't accustomed to. It's something I find rather repugnant.

 

 

Ok, Merrill was a delusional Dalish. And culture shock isn't an excuse to have you wander at night in back alleys on some thugs' turf. Varric should've just let her get mugged once just to teach her a lesson.

[Xilizhra]

but none of the Andrastian nations are really in a position to help

 

short of a qunari invasion or a resurrected Dales I don't see the issues being out aside

 

speaking of which... why don't the qunari invade.... Orlais is pre-occupied, Ferelden is weak, Nevarra can't stand alone, the Free Marches aren't powerful enough to stop them....

Demons. The qunari are terrified of demons.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

but none of the Andrastian nations are really in a position to help

 

short of a qunari invasion or a resurrected Dales I don't see the issues being out aside

 

speaking of which... why don't the qunari invade.... Orlais is pre-occupied, Ferelden is weak, Nevarra can't stand alone, the Free Marches aren't powerful enough to stop them....

 

They're dealing with a massive upsurge in addictions caused by something called "Cookies".

[TK514]

Ask them the same question.

They aren't the ones saying it doesn't matter.

[LobselVith8]

Ok, Merrill was a delusional Dalish. And culture shock isn't an excuse to have you wander at night in back alleys on some thugs' turf. Varric should've just let her get mugged once just to teach her a lesson.

 

Merrill had her own cultural and religious beliefs; that doesn't make her delusional. Varric also made an effort to protect Anders and his clinic; he looked out for his friends, apparently; I wouldn't be surprised if he stepped in for an apostate Hawke as well, given his close friendship with Ser Thrask.

[TheJediSaint]

They're dealing with a massive upsurge in addictions caused by something called "Cookies".

That's what you get when you make Sten the Arishok.

[Steelcan]

Demons. The qunari are terrified of demons.

if they won't invade because of demons you'd think Tevinter would have been able to turn the tide given their proclivity towards blood magic and such