2113 réponses à ce sujet

[Dabrikishaw]

I don't think it's an issue of good or evil, as much as it's a matter of spirits simply being wholly different from mortals. Merrill doesn't think you can apply the notion of 'good' to a spirit because they're all dangerous, and Justice demonstrates that even a spirit with noble intentions can prove to be dangerous. Merrill also says that all spirits differ, in the same way that humans can differ culturally from one another (which is how she's able to identify the nature of the Profane Abomination and Torpor).

Well, considering spirits can take on virtues like Compassion, Virtue, and Justice, I'd say spirits are as capable of knowing what good and evil are as anyone else.

[MissMagi]

Maybe, but that spirit had watched over Wynne since she was an apprentice, I tend to believe that the strength of her convictions was likely what attracted it in the first place.

Good point. On the other hand, it could have been influencing her that whole time...

[EmperorSahlertz]

I think that would be for the best, as we've gone off the rails quite enough. It's still a narrative avenue I'd like to support with my elven Inquisitor, no matter what trials and tribulations might ensue as a result. I'm thinking about establishing a firm base of operations in Ferelden, first and foremost, and securing the mages as an ally (in order to nullify the threat posed by the templars to the Dalish, as opposed to an ideological common interest); I think military support and capable mages may be of use in the Dales. Do you have anything you'd like to contribute to the prospect of an elven homeland?

Why on earth would human mages want to support a nation, where you have yourself said that humans would be second grade citizens? If anyhting human mages will aid Orlais in return of a promise of an improved life.

[Hellion Rex]

Why on earth would human mages want to support a nation, where you have yourself said that humans would be second grade citizens? If anyhting human mages will aid Orlais in return of a promise of an improved life.

At this point, I think the mages will be willing to support whoever they can get the best deal out of, be it Gaspard or Celene. I think it'd take a lot more persuasion to get the rebels to support the elves. And in return, what would the mages necessarily get out of supporting the elves?

[Steelcan]

At this point, I think the mages will be willing to support whoever they can get the best deal out of, be it Gaspard or Celene. I think it'd take a lot more persuasion to get the rebels to support the elves. And in return, what would the mages necessarily get out of supporting the elves?

ostracism from Andrastian society and the eternal anger of the Chantry

[shodiswe]

They can't just occupy a piece of land where other people already live and call it theirs, then you would have another Israel/ Palestine conflict. We all know that's a bad example on how to do things right.

A small piece of land in the wilderness where other people don't live. It might be a rough start getting things going, but at least they wouldn't be as likely to be at war with every human and other entities forever.

It sounds like there are deep forests and other areas of the world where people don't live.

Like other people have pointed out, Human mages seems to have a similar problem, and it almost seems like they are as much a subspecies as elves. Elves can even have children with humans.... Which normaly says they arn't that far appart from each other. Otherwise it wouldn't work.

Except maybe those really nasty mages who might not be the best nation to move to and become second class citizens of mages.

[Shadow Fox]

Why on earth would human mages want to support a nation, where you have yourself said that humans would be second grade citizens? If anyhting human mages will aid Orlais in return of a promise of an improved life.

He has?

[LobselVith8]

The mages likely won't want to antagonize the Chantry after the war is over, working with heathens is not likely to help them out in the long run

 

Given that the mages voted to emancipate themselves from Chantry control, I don't think the mages have a problem with opposing the Chantry. As Cameron Lee said, the protagonist can take a side in the Mage-Templar War and bring it to an end, so I can see the mages putting more stock in the mutually beneficial arrangement with the Inquisition than with any rhetoric from the Chantry (especially given how some viewed the Chantry controlled Circles).

[EmperorSahlertz]

He has?

He stated humans would not be allowed to rule. In short: second grade citizens.

[Hellion Rex]

ostracism from Andrastian society and the eternal anger of the Chantry

As if the mages needed another reason for the witch hunts to start lol

[Steelcan]

Given that the mages voted to emancipate themselves from Chantry control, I don't think the mages have a problem with opposing the Chantry. As Cameron Lee said, the protagonist can take a side in the Mage-Templar War and bring it to an end, so I can see the mages putting more stock in the mutually beneficial arrangement with the Inquisition than with any rhetoric from the Chantry (especially given how some viewed the Chantry controlled Circles).

Bring it to an end doesn't necessarily mean free mages completely from the Chantry, furthermore the vast majority of mages are andrastian, they want a better life under the chantry, not founding their own religion and society

[Dabrikishaw]

He has?

Humans wouldn't be allowed to rule this hypothetical elf kingdom. I guess he said this because elves can't be the king or queen of Denerim.

[LobselVith8]

Why on earth would human mages want to support a nation, where you have yourself said that humans would be second grade citizens? If anyhting human mages will aid Orlais in return of a promise of an improved life.

 

I talked about my support for an elven homeland where the elves would govern themselves. I'm currently addressing a course of action I want to pursue in Inquisition with an elven Inquisitor, given how the mages can be supported in the Mage-Templar War, and brought into the Inquisition. It's not really an issue that's up for debate.

[shodiswe]

Bring it to an end doesn't necessarily mean free mages completely from the Chantry, furthermore the vast majority of mages are andrastian, they want a better life under the chantry, not founding their own religion and society

There seems to different mage mentalities on that. The thing is, a temporarily benign chantry might turn into a nightmarish oppressor fairly easily as time goes on. There is always a risk to handing over your lives to someone else.

[Shadow Fox]

Human would be allowed to rule this hypothetical elf kingdom. I guess he said this because elves can't be the king or queen of Denerim.

...So basically simply a reversal of the status quo

 

Lovely

[Steelcan]

There seems to different mage mentalities on that. The thing is, a temporarily benign chantry might turn into a nightmarish oppressor fairly easily as time goes on. There is always a risk to handing over your lives to someone else.

and short of the mages breaking away religiously, they will still be subservient to the Chantry

[MissMagi]

I think that would be for the best, as we've gone off the rails quite enough. It's still a narrative avenue I'd like to support with my elven Inquisitor, no matter what trials and tribulations might ensue as a result. I'm thinking about establishing a firm base of operations in Ferelden, first and foremost, and securing the mages as an ally (in order to nullify the threat posed by the templars to the Dalish, as opposed to an ideological common interest); I think military support and capable mages may be of use in the Dales. Do you have anything you'd like to contribute to the prospect of an elven homeland?

 

I had this whole thing typed out... but it messed up. Give me some time.

[LobselVith8]

Bring it to an end doesn't necessarily mean free mages completely from the Chantry, furthermore the vast majority of mages are andrastian, they want a better life under the chantry, not founding their own religion and society

 

The mages are currently autonomous from the Chantry because they already voted to severe ties and break free from the Chantry of Andraste, and the Inquisition is "in opposition" to the Chantry as a neutral organization. As the mages are currently fighting to maintain their independence, I imagine that supporting the protagonist the mages would involve the continuation of that measure. I don't share your opinion that it's a matter of restoring the status quo.

 

With the support of a strong military and trained mages, I think that my elven Inquisitor could make a positive difference for the elves in the Dales, and possibly help give his people their own homeland, because I think they deserve a nation of their own.

[Heimdall]

Good point. On the other hand, it could have been influencing her that whole time...

The chicken or the egg

[yullyuk]

i would love to give the elves a homeland, but as stated in masked empire, giving them all to much all at once would have more negative effects than good politically and economically, dalish elves seem to have a large dissatisfaction towards the city elves as they see them as beneath them and not true elves and the city elves just want to be treated fairly and equally and not treat as second class citizens but if you freed them from any and all bonds, they would quickly go to bickering amongst themselves for power and then when they dont have a strong economy to support them some elves would die from starvation, others would likely go back into servitude and others would turn to banditry to get by, it wouldnt be an easy transition period and would take several years... come to think of it after writing this i think i would rather try and intergrate them more into the current society and try to break down the barriers that persist the racism that they receive because there elves

[EmperorSahlertz]

I talked about my support for an elven homeland where the elves would govern themselves. I'm currently addressing a course of action I want to pursue in Inquisition with an elven Inquisitor, given how the mages can be supported in the Mage-Templar War, and brought into the Inquisition. It's not really an issue that's up for debate.

A course of action in which you also neglect to explain how you will convince you ORLESIAN soldiers fight agaisnt their own country, for the sake of a bunch of ragtag Elves. So yes, there is a whole lot of your wild ideas that are up for debate.

[Steelcan]

The mages are currently autonomous from the Chantry because they already voted to severe ties and break free from the Chantry of Andraste, and the Inquisition is "in opposition" to the Chantry as a neutral organization. As the mages are currently fighting to maintain their independence, I imagine that supporting the protagonist the mages would involve the continuation of that measure. I don't share your opinion that it's a matter of restoring the status quo.

 

With the support of a strong military and trained mages, I think that my elven Inquisitor could make a positive difference for the elves in the Dales, and possibly help give his people their own homeland, because I think they deserve a nation of their own.

And I doubt we will get the option to do that.  They ahd their chance witht he dalish boon but decided "nah"

[Xilizhra]

A course of action in which you also neglect to explain how you will convince you ORLESIAN soldiers fight agaisnt their own country, for the sake of a bunch of ragtag Elves. So yes, there is a whole lot fo yuor wild ideas that are up for debate.

Eluvians. Potentially a vital asset to stopping the Breach.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Eluvians. Potentially a vital asset to stopping the Breach.

The **** do Orlesian soldiers care about Eluvians when their Inquisitor orders them to attack their brothers and sisters!?

[LobselVith8]

A course of action in which you also neglect to explain how you will convince you ORLESIAN soldiers fight agaisnt their own country, for the sake of a bunch of ragtag Elves. So yes, there is a whole lot of your wild ideas that are up for debate.

 

Which is why I think it's important for my character to have a strong military and the assistance of the mages; I'm preparing for a possible conflict with Orlais in order to secure an elven homeland. No purges of elven populations, no persecution of the elven faith, an opportunity for the lives to build a real future for themselves - I think it's reason enough for my Dalish protagonist to make the attempt, if it's available in Inquisition.