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It's always someone else's fault but the elves.
Stopping from being immortal, it's humans.
Gods turning their backs on them: humans.
Getting owned: humans.
Being freed from slavery: humans.
Getting lands: humans.
Getting upset: humans.
Getting owned again: humans.
Life sucks: humans.
Screwing up: humans in the area.
The mere existence of humans causes the elves to lose their ****.
I fear, although I love the Elves, that if they got their own home land again that they would inevitably declare war on the Humans again. I think what would be best for the Elves would be to find an island somewhere far away from everyone, and make it their new homeland, and stay there, in isolation. That way their gifts of immortality can slowly come back.
Only the elite had the "gift of immortality", the rest were squirming at their feet.
Only the elite had the "gift of immortality", the rest were squirming at their feet.
I thought the codex said very long ago, before ancient times and the city of Arlathine, that all Elves were more or less immune to aging?
I fear, although I love the Elves, that if they got their own home land again that they would inevitably declare war on the Humans again.
Tevinter enslaved the elves of Arlathan when they withdrew from human contact (which is mentioned in World of Thedas), and there are two conflicting historical accounts about who was the aggressor in the war with the Dales.
I think what would be best for the Elves would be to find an island somewhere far away from everyone, and make it their new homeland, and stay there, in isolation. That way their gifts of immortality can slowly come back.
Hypothetically, it might be for the best if the Dalish could find an uninhabited area of the continent where they would be safe from Andrastian humans, given how I can imagine some Andrastians would once again threaten the Dalish to convert to the Andrastian faith (which was a problem for the Sabrae Clan as well); perhaps on the other side of the Western Approach, along the Sundered Sea.
Otherwise, if it's an avenue that can be accomplished in Inquisition, I'm perfectly willing to support an elven movement to reclaim control of the Dales from the Orlesian Empire, and making certain Orlais doesn't pose a threat to the elven men, women, and children who would try to make a home for themselves in the only sanctuary they would have in the whole of Thedas.
I thought the codex said very long ago, before ancient times and the city of Arlathine, that all Elves were more or less immune to aging?
Nah, TME says otherwise. It's just another of their embellished stories and a reason to blame humans.
I thought the codex said very long ago, before ancient times and the city of Arlathine, that all Elves were more or less immune to aging?
The Dalish believe that all their ancestors were mages and immortal. Felassan, an enigmatic elven character in "The Masked Empire", said that Arlathan (a great city of Elvhenan) was like modern Orlais, and that Dreamers were basically the elven equivalent of the Orlesian nobility who were in charge.
Nah, TME says otherwise. It's just another of their embellished stories and a reason to blame humans.
Actually, I think what TME implies is that there were upper and lower class elves, not that immortality was limited just to the upper echelons. Which I think is even worse, since it meant spending your immortality sweeping the floors of some noble's home.
The Chantry historical account is written after the war transpired, and I could certainly speculate about how tolerant Sister Petrine is when she spends time on a historical account using rumor and hearsay to vilify the elves for following their own gods, and not the Maker. You're also using conjecture about Keeper Gisharel as fact.
As opposed to the multitude of historical reccords that is written BEFORE the events?................... And no Gisharel is a known racist as can be read by his statements. And he also got a severe victim complex.
You say that as though there's any evidence to support the Chantry historical account over the Dalish historical account, when there isn't.
The plethora of points I just brought up seems to suggest otherwise. But I shouldn't expect you, the resident Elf-apologist to understand.
Actually, that line seemed to read that Drakon wasn't able to successfully invade the Dales, and therefore he couldn't risk expanding north into the Free Marches. Considering Drakon's Exalted Marches against the rest of his neighbors, I'm not so sure anything would have stopped him from continuing to expand his empire south into the Dales, aside from an inability to do so because of the elves.
No that is not what that line read AT ALL. But sure, I wouldn't expect anything less from you than such a claim.
You mean the Emerald Knights who were at the border of the Dales didn't help Orlais specifically. Orlais does not constitute "the world". The fable of the scorpion and the frog comes to mind. We don't even have any evidence that any of the human nations petitioned them for aid.
Were there any others? And no the Dales didn't just not help Orlais, they did not participate AT ALL during the Second Blight.
And here we go with your apologist waysto make sure your precious Elves doesn't appear villanious or in any way the wrong light.
Which may have been in retaliation to humans invading the Dales to force conversion to the Andrastian faith, which would mean it wasn't unprovoked, and the town could have been the staging area for the humans who were invading the elven kingdom.
Of which there is ZERO evidence to have ever happened at all. Other than the wild claims and speculation from an old racist who wasn't even present during the events. So beg your pardon while the rest of us try to discuss what ACTUALLY hapepend, instead of wild fantasies.
By "mountain of evidence", you mean nothing but conjecture and your preference for the Chantry historical account.
HAH! That is rich comming from you.
Actually, I think what TME implies is that there were upper and lower class elves, not that immortality was limited just to the upper echelons. Which I think is even worse, since it meant spending your immortality sweeping the floors of some noble's home.
Actually he discusses the theoretical 'immortality'. It was only Dreamers, only while they were in the Fade, and not even all of them achieved it.
Actually, I think what TME implies is that there were upper and lower class elves, not that immortality was limited just to the upper echelons. Which I think is even worse, since it meant spending your immortality sweeping the floors of some noble's home.
Wasting your immortality shoveling turd in the stables.
Actually he discusses the theoretical 'immortality'. It was only Dreamers, only while they were in the Fade, and not even all of them achieved it.
I'll have to re-read that part, then. I just remember the slit throats and the strong implications it was done by bitter servants.
I'll have to re-read that part, then. I just remember the slit throats and the strong implications it was done by bitter servants.
You do remember that part correctly.
He discusses how the Dreamers were tended to while they were in the Fade, and how some of them were able to draw sustenance directly from the Fade. The way the staff could tell if that happened was that the Dreamer would start producing a particular scent.
As opposed to the multitude of historical reccords that is written BEFORE the events?................... And no Gisharel is a known racist as can be read by his statements. And he also got a severe victim complex.
You mean the single Chantry historical account that the player can read. And yes, I'm well aware that you have an negative opinion on a character we have never met, and that your assumption about the content of his character is entirely speculative.
Were there any others? And no the Dales didn't just not help Orlais, they did not participate AT ALL during the Second Blight.
The Emerald Knights of the Dales didn't help Orlais specifically in that instance. There's also no evidence that Orlais, or any of the human nations, requested their aid.
Of which there is ZERO evidence to have ever happened at all. Other than the wild claims and speculation from an old racist who wasn't even present during the events. So beg your pardon while the rest of us try to discuss what ACTUALLY hapepend, instead of wild fantasies.
Technically speaking, there's no actual evidence one way or the other, since the war happened centuries ago, and we simply have two conflicting historical accounts to go by.
The Emerald Knights of the Dales didn't help Orlais specifically in that instance. There's also no evidence that Orlais, or any of the human nations, requested their aid.
As I recall, the Dalish army stood on a nearby hill and watched while the battle raged in Montsimmard. Like, they literally had a massive army within arrow range of the darkspawn and they did absolutely nothing while the Grey Wardens died in the city below. The city repelled the Darkspawn, but thousands died that might have lived were it not for Dalish pride.
How is that not an inexcusable action?
As I recall, the Dalish army stood on a nearby hill and watched while the battle raged in Montsimmard. Like, they literally had a massive army within arrow range of the darkspawn and they did absolutely nothing while the Grey Wardens died in the city below. The city repelled the Darkspawn, but thousands died that might have lived were it not for Dalish pride.
How is that not an inexcusable action?
If the humans failed and the Darkspawn invaded the Dales, it would've been the humans' fault for not fighting hard enough and being so pathetic.
As I recall, the Dalish army stood on a nearby hill and watched while the battle raged in Montsimmard. Like, they literally had a massive army within arrow range of the darkspawn and they did absolutely nothing while the Grey Wardens died in the city below. The city repelled the Darkspawn, but thousands died that might have lived were it not for Dalish pride.
The Emerald Knights were tasked with guarding the borders of the Dales. And you're being speculative that they had a massive army, or that the elves would have been in a position to turn the tide of the battle. There are a lot of factors we simply aren't privy to. Had the darkspawn turned their attention to the Dales, it may have been up to them to hold the tide back while a few among them warned the elven populace to get away.
How is that not an inexcusable action?
It's pretty much the same thing every surface nation has ever done when they left the dwarves to deal with the darkspawn on their own. Although the only ones who are singled out are the Dales. I'd criticize the humans and the elves for not taking the threat of the darkspawn as seriously as the dwarves do, and I commend the dwarves for consistently trying to deal with a threat that could destroy the known world.
The Emerald Knights were tasked with guarding the borders of the Dales. And you're being speculative that they had a massive army, or that the elves would have been in a position to turn the tide of the battle. There are a lot of factors we simply aren't privy to. Had the darkspawn turned their attention to the Dales, it may have been up to them to hold the tide back while a few among them warned the elven populace to get away.
We know it was an army, as it is always called that. We also know the battle hung on the razor's edge, and Montsimmard barely came out ahead. At that point, any possible intervention would have gone a long way to defeating the darkspawn.
It's pretty much the same thing every surface nation has ever done when they left the dwarves to deal with the darkspawn on their own. Although the only ones who are singled out are the Dales. I'd criticize the humans and the elves for not taking the threat of the darkspawn as seriously as the dwarves do, and I commend the dwarves for consistently trying to deal with a threat that could destroy the known world.
There's a difference between hearing about gang violence a few neighborhoods down and a squad of cops kicking back and watching as two gangs duke it out. Not a perfect analogy, granted, but they had no excuses. They were on the scene, they had the means to help, to prevent what could have been a massacre, and they did not. There was no possible reason they could have to not intervene. They probably wouldn't have been in all that much danger, if they hung back and shot arrows! How is that justifiable? I would almost call that a war crime.
It just ocurred to me that in the "Hobbit:DoS", Tauriel asks permission to attack Dol Gulder because it is where the spiders are coming from but that Thranduil denies on the ground the fortress lies outside their borders.
Honestly, when you're making Thranduil sound like the less douche elf, you know you have a problem.
@Paladine They were all talk as being the best archers but actually would've just shot their eyes out with their own arrows.
We know it was an army, as it is always called that. We also know the battle hung on the razor's edge, and Montsimmard barely came out ahead. At that point, any possible intervention would have gone a long way to defeating the darkspawn.
Or it could have simply lead to the defeat of the elven soldiers, and left the Dales vulnerable if the darkspawn turned their attention towards the elven kingdom. Or it could have been criticized as the wrong move by the elven people or the nobility who governed the Dales, who may have felt that action should have been taken to save lives. We don't have all the facts, and it's impossible to make any claims with any real certainty. Perhaps they thought the horde couldn't be penetrated; there are reasons why Loghain's refusal to hold back the army from engaging the darkspawn are debated to this day.
Of course, this is also a moot point, as the Dalish clans signed a treaty with the Grey Wardens after the fall and occupation of the Dales, despite having no incentive to do so. The Dalish clans apparently felt differently than the elven army who didn't intervene.
There's a difference between hearing about gang violence a few neighborhoods down and a squad of cops kicking back and watching as two gangs duke it out. Not a perfect analogy, granted, but they had no excuses. They were on the scene, they had the means to help, to prevent what could have been a massacre, and they did not. There was no possible reason they could have to not intervene. They probably wouldn't have been in all that much danger, if they hung back and shot arrows! How is that justifiable? I would almost call that a war crime.
You know, I feel pretty comfortable criticizing the humans and elves leaving the darkspawn entirely to the dwarves to deal with, given how they know how dangerous the darkspawn can be.
It just ocurred to me that in the "Hobbit:DoS", Tauriel asks permission to attack Dol Gulder because it is where the spiders are coming from but that Thranduil denies on the ground the fortress lies outside their borders.
Honestly, when you're making Thranduil sound like the less douche elf, you know you have a problem.
Thranduil also left thousands of people to die for no discernible reason. Heck, that was even worse, since he was allies with the dwarves in the first place!
Or it could have simply lead to the defeat of the elven soldiers, and left the Dales vulnerable if the darkspawn turned their attention towards the elven kingdom. Or it could have been criticized as the wrong move by the elven people or the nobility who governed the Dales, who may have felt that action should have been taken to save lives. We don't have all the facts, and it's impossible to make any claims with any real certainty. Perhaps they thought the horde couldn't be penetrated; there are reasons why Loghain's refusal to hold back the army from engaging the darkspawn are debated to this day.
Of course, this is also a moot point, as the Dalish clans signed a treaty with the Grey Wardens after the fall and occupation of the Dales, despite having no incentive to do so. The Dalish clans apparently felt differently than the elven army who didn't intervene.
Then they could have withdrawn. The Emerald Knights rode Halla, right? If the Darkspawn get too close, bail, and keep shooting arrows at them. Loghain held back his army because the fight was clearly lost, and there was no way in hell his troops would have made any difference. The siege was clearly more evenly matched, and even if it seemed hopeless at first, the Elves sat there for the whole battle. At some point, they would have seen a moment where they could make a difference and turn the tides, and they didn't take it.
You're right, we don't have all the facts, and yeah, maybe the actions of that general were sharply criticized, but you have to admit, from what we do know, this sounds really terrible.
You know, I feel pretty comfortable criticizing the humans and elves leaving the darkspawn entirely to the dwarves to deal with, given how they know how dangerous the darkspawn can be.
Sure, I'd agree with that. They should be helping out the dwarves. But two wrongs don't make a right, and come on, if a bunch of Orlesian soldiers saw the Legion of the Dead fighting for their lives, they would stop and help. Hell, judging by some of Gaspard's comments in The Masked Empire, they might have been honorbound to assist them.
It just ocurred to me that in the "Hobbit:DoS", Tauriel asks permission to attack Dol Gulder because it is where the spiders are coming from but that Thranduil denies on the ground the fortress lies outside their borders.
Honestly, when you're making Thranduil sound like the less douche elf, you know you have a problem.
That will be their new slogan. "The Dales: we make Thranduil look like a cool dude!"
True. Retaliating against an invading force that is trying to force them to convert, on the other hand, makes it self-defense.
marching halfway across Thedas sacking cities is in no way self-defense
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