2113 réponses à ce sujet

[TheJediSaint]

That will be their new slogan. "The Dales: we make Thranduil look like a cool dude!"

Dailish, wannabe Tolken Elves.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

marching halfway across Thedas sacking cities is in no way self-defense

 

It is if Elves are doing it! Their "Special" concerns trump your logic!

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Dailish, wannabe Tolken Elves.

 

More like "What the Eldar would be if you took away ALL the cool bits"

[Steelcan]

More like "What the Eldar would be if you took away ALL the cool bits"

the Eldar will always be taller

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

the Eldar will always be taller

 

Don't forget the super secret hatemance for Hoomanity.

[Steelcan]

Don't forget the super secret hatemance for Hoomanity.

0_o

 

what if they share that?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

0_o

 

what if they share that?

 

That... would explain soooo much about the Dalish.

 

Dalish: Get away filthy human... with your muscles and your functioning society....*blushes* Uh I mean die scum!

[LobselVith8]

Then they could have withdrawn. The Emerald Knights rode Halla, right? If the Darkspawn get too close, bail, and keep shooting arrows at them. Loghain held back his army because the fight was clearly lost, and there was no way in hell his troops would have made any difference. The siege was clearly more evenly matched, and even if it seemed hopeless at first, the Elves sat there for the whole battle. At some point, they would have seen a moment where they could make a difference and turn the tides, and they didn't take it.

 

We don't know how the siege looked to the Emerald Knights; they may have thought it was lost, too, and may have stood by to see if the darkspawn were going to head to the Dales in order to evacuate the people or buy them some time (or even both if some split from the initial group). It's almost impossible to say because the entry lacks so much context.

 

You're right, we don't have all the facts, and yeah, maybe the actions of that general were sharply criticized, but you have to admit, from what we do know, this sounds really terrible.

Sure, I'd agree with that. They should be helping out the dwarves. But two wrongs don't make a right, and come on, if a bunch of Orlesian soldiers saw the Legion of the Dead fighting for their lives, they would stop and help. Hell, judging by some of Gaspard's comments in The Masked Empire, they might have been honorbound to assist them.

 

Two wrongs aren't supposed to make a right - they're supposed to identify that there's a problem with all the surfacers who basically stand by and do nothing while the dwarves take the fight to the darkspawn. I can identify that the humans and elves are both wrong in that regard.

 

As for the chevaliers, given how they murder innocent elves as part of their initiation rite, I wouldn't be so sure.

[Palidane]

 

As for the chevaliers, given how they murder innocent elves as part of their initiation rite, I wouldn't be so sure.

When Gaspard is pursuing Celene through the Eluvians, he comes in right after they get done killing a bunch of undead. He says he was lucky to arrive when he did, because he would have been honorbound to help them fight. Now, if that applies to undead, it certainly applies to something a million times as dangerous, like Darkspawn.

[LobselVith8]

marching halfway across Thedas sacking cities is in no way self-defense

 

Marching into enemy territory (that is right next to their nation, not halfway across the continent) to nullify an a group that initially invaded their kingdom to force elves to convert to their religion can be argued to be self-defense, particularly when their freedom to follow the Creators and their agency to rule over themselves was on the line.

[Palidane]

Marching into enemy territory (that is right next to their nation, not halfway across the continent) to nullify an a group that initially invaded their kingdom to force elves to convert to their religion can be argued to be self-defense, particularly when their freedom to follow the Creators and their agency to rule over themselves was on the line.

Attacking in self defense is a bit of an oxymoron. "These Orlesians don't like us. Better march hundreds of miles into their country and take over a dozen cities to protect ourselves!" Doesn't sound like smart logic to me.

 

The way I see it, neither side has the moral high ground in this fight. They fought, the Dales lost, Orlais won, that's it. Neither side was right, neither side was wrong, it happened, and it's over. The elves should move on.

[Steelcan]

Marching into enemy territory (that is right next to their nation, not halfway across the continent) to nullify an a group that initially invaded their kingdom to force elves to convert to their religion can be argued to be self-defense, particularly when their freedom to follow the Creators and their agency to rule over themselves was on the line.

no it cannot be, unless you are going to argue that it was a pre-emptive attack on Orlais it cannot be argued that this was a defensive action in any way.  Burning cities and invading sovereign lands is an act of war, and when the provocation was preaching this is a thoroughly indefensible action to take.

 

You can say the humans deserved it for being religiously different, and expansionistic etc... but do not try and paint what is a blatantly aggressive move as self-defense.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

no it cannot be, unless you are going to argue that it was a pre-emptive attack on Orlais it cannot be argued that this was a defensive action in any way.  Burning cities and invading sovereign lands is an act of war, and when the provocation was preaching this is a thoroughly indefensible action to take.

 

You can say the humans deserved it for being religiously different, and expansionistic etc... but do not try and paint what is a blatantly aggressive move as self-defense.

 

Elves used an invasion CB they couldn't back up.

 

Orlais must have gotten an Invasion CB to counter it. Good on ya Orlais!

[LOLandStuff]

Since when did the elves become enemies? And when did humans force them to convert?

What is happening here?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Since when did the elves become enemies? And when did humans force them to convert?

What is happening here?

 

The elves picked up "Fetish: Victimization" when they leveled up helping Andraste.

 

The war for the Dales and the aftermath was just them roleplaying that feat to the hilt.

[Steelcan]

Elves used an invasion CB they couldn't back up.

 

Orlais must have gotten an Invasion CB to counter it. Good on ya Orlais!

those stability drops, they'll do ya in

[LOLandStuff]

The elves picked up "Fetish: Victimization" when they leveled up helping Andraste.

 

The war for the Dales and the aftermath was just them roleplaying that feat to the hilt.

 

Thanks, I was getting lost here for a moment. Phew...

[LobselVith8]

Attacking in self defense is a bit of an oxymoron. "These Orlesians don't like us. Better march hundreds of miles into their country and take over a dozen cities to protect ourselves!" Doesn't sound like smart logic to me.

 

More like, "We should dismantle this dangerous organization that invaded our homeland and threatens both our religious rights and our sovereignty as a nation." The Dalish historical account addresses that the war was initiated by human incursion into the Dales, and this is echoed by the elven Warden in condemning the Chantry for invading the elven homeland to forcibly convert the people.

 

The way I see it, neither side has the moral high ground in this fight. They fought, the Dales lost, Orlais won, that's it. Neither side was right, neither side was wrong, it happened, and it's over. The elves should move on.

 

If it's possible to help the elves reclaim the Dales, that matter can be rectified. The Dalish can finally settle down permanently, build for a long-lasting future for themselves and their children, and establish a real future for the Elvhen.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Thanks, I was getting lost here for a moment. Phew...

 

No problem. Gotta give the elves credit. They've been sticking to that RP for centuries now. That takes dedication.

[LobselVith8]

no it cannot be, unless you are going to argue that it was a pre-emptive attack on Orlais it cannot be argued that this was a defensive action in any way.  Burning cities and invading sovereign lands is an act of war, and when the provocation was preaching this is a thoroughly indefensible action to take.

 

If it's retaliation against a human invasion of the Dales in order to stop a dangerous foe from wrecking havoc in the elven homeland, then it can certainly be argued as self-defense. And I don't think the armed and armored soldiers were sent in to start preaching (assuming that the Dalish historical account is correct).

 

You can say the humans deserved it for being religiously different, and expansionistic etc... but do not try and paint what is a blatantly aggressive move as self-defense.

 

I'm pointing out that wanting to stop a dangerous nemesis of the Dalish from continuing to threaten or kill the elven people can be argued as self-defense.

[Palidane]

More like, "We should dismantle this dangerous organization that invaded our homeland and threatens both our religious rights and our sovereignty as a nation." The Dalish historical account addresses that the war was initiated by human incursion into the Dales, and this is echoed by the elven Warden in condemning the Chantry for invading the elven homeland to forcibly convert the people.

 

 

If it's possible to help the elves reclaim the Dales, that matter can be rectified. The Dalish can finally settle down permanently, build for a long-lasting future for themselves and their children, and establish a real future for the Elvhen.

Alright, we're right back at square one. We don't really have enough information to make a judgement call one way or another. Too many unknowns on every side.

 

As for retaking the Dales, I think both of us have made our opinions very clear. Unless you want to hash that out again, I believe we are at an impasse.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Is there any point to this thread anymore? It's turned into mostly trolling.

[Heimdall]

If it's retaliation against a human invasion of the Dales in order to stop a dangerous foe from wrecking havoc in the elven homeland, then it can certainly be argued as self-defense. And I don't think the armed and armored soldiers were sent in to start preaching (assuming that the Dalish historical account is correct).

 

 

I'm pointing out that wanting to stop a dangerous nemesis of the Dalish from continuing to threaten or kill the elven people can be argued as self-defense.

That's a big assumption, considering how sparse in details and self serving to the Dalish narrative of innocent victimhood it is.

 

Even if it is true, cutting a bloody swathe through Orlais and marching on the capital city goes beyond any purely defensive action.

[LobselVith8]

Alright, we're right back at square one. We don't really have enough information to make a judgement call one way or another. Too many unknowns on every side.

 

As for retaking the Dales, I think both of us have made our opinions very clear. Unless you want to hash that out again, I believe we are at an impasse.

 

Fair enough.

[Steelcan]

If it's retaliation against a human invasion of the Dales in order to stop a dangerous foe from wrecking havoc in the elven homeland, then it can certainly be argued as self-defense. And I don't think the armed and armored soldiers were sent in to start preaching (assuming that the Dalish historical account is correct).

 

 

I'm pointing out that wanting to stop a dangerous nemesis of the Dalish from continuing to threaten or kill the elven people can be argued as self-defense.

invasion of preachers, that were followed up by templars (perhaps after the Exalted March was called) answering that with a full scale invasion is childish and petty

 

converting is not threatening or lethal