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Is there any point to this thread anymore? It's turned into mostly trolling.
Admittedly, the discussions have gotten a bit heated at times (and some people mostly seem interested in starting trouble, unfortunately), but I think it's possible to discuss a hypothetical elven nation with civility.
Their faith in their creators wasn't as strong as they believed if they felt threatened by a bunch of harmless missionaries.
That's a big assumption, considering how sparse in details and self serving to the Dalish narrative of innocent victimhood it is.
The Chantry historical account is also sparse in details, goes into rumor and hearsay about the Dalish that depicts the worship of their "elven gods" in a malevolent manner, and paints humanity as the victims of unprovoked aggression. The simple fact comes down to how the player can't say for certain which historical account is correct, because the developers have refused to clarify the inception of the Dales, and World of Thedas (in both it's timeline and the brief entry concerning the Dales) is ambiguous.
Even if it is true, cutting a bloody swathe through Orlais and marching on the capital city goes beyond any purely defensive action.
To stop an aggressor who sent armed and armored soldiers into the Dales in response to elves kicking out missionaries? I strongly disagree. Given that the elven background is Dalish, I'm certain that the elven protagonist may be able to express similar sentiments, while a human protagonist may speak from a different context, given how the two are informed by different historical accounts about the start of the war, and how they view their own people.
I'd like to see the different cultural views respected for the main character, especially as the human and elven characters should be informed by different historical accounts about the start of the war in the elven homeland.
Is there any point to this thread anymore? It's turned into mostly trolling.
At least the trolling is more amusing then opinions that won't change regardless.
Their faith in their creators wasn't as strong as they believed if they felt threatened by a bunch of harmless missionaries.
This entire conflict started because Elves get gratification from being the victim, and feeling like the victim, and roleplaying as the victim.
It quite literally explains every twist and turn they've gone through.
This entire conflict started because Elves get gratification from being the victim, and feeling like the victim, and roleplaying as the victim.
It quite literally explains every twist and turn they've gone through.
Imagine their bedtime stories.
invasion of preachers, that were followed up by templars (perhaps after the Exalted March was called) answering that with a full scale invasion is childish and petty
converting is not threatening or lethal
It can be threatening. It can destabilize a nation that is focused on a particular religion. It can disrupt the status quo. It can create civil strife. Converting doesn't just have an impact on an individual, it impacts everyone around that individual, like family, friends, and neighbors. It's like people coming in supporting a different political structure, sort of.
Imagine their bedtime stories.
"And then the evil Shemlen brutally subjugated our people, we then suffered centuries of incredibly sexy... Terrible slavery. The end."
I think taking the role of the Elf who leads his/her people to a new homeland would make for excellent centerpiece in a separate Dragon Age title.
There was a few Dragonlance Novels that revolved around a group of refugee elves trying to find a new home. I cannot recall much about it, other than it was enjoyable and one of the main characters was called The Lioness.
She was badass.
invasion of preachers, that were followed up by templars (perhaps after the Exalted March was called) answering that with a full scale invasion is childish and petty
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the elven Inquisitor can have a discussion similar to ours in the context of the storyline, like when the group heads to the Dales, perhaps the Emerald Graves. I'd imagine the Dalish protagonist would say that sending armed and armored soldiers into a foreign territory in response to kicking out missionaries is going to lead to the elves defending themselves against an aggressor.
converting is not threatening or lethal
We know from the Sabrae Clan that Andrastians have used threats in attempts to coerce conversion. I'd go out on a limb and say that sending armed soldiers into a region that doesn't welcome them is threatening, and can end up lethal (particularly when you consider the conflict that would likely arise between elven mages and Andrastians).
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the elven Inquisitor can have a discussion similar to ours in the context of the storyline, like when the group heads to the Dales, perhaps the Emerald Graves. I'd imagine the Dalish protagonist would say that sending armed and armored soldiers into a foreign territory in response to kicking out missionaries is going to lead to the elves defending themselves against an aggressor.
Hold up, were the Emerald Graves the one that had the undead arising? Or was that the Exalted Plains?
Hold up, were the Emerald Graves the one that had the undead arising? Or was that the Exalted Plains?
It's mentioned that some undead were rising in the Dales, to the point it halted a conflict between Orlesian soldiers in the civil war, but the Exalted Plains are the location that feature the undead becoming an issue. According to the Bioware Blog:
"The Exalted Plains of the Dales are characterized by equal measures of beauty and strife. It was here, centuries ago, that the elven nation met its bitter end. On these fields, the holdouts of the elven army faced the forces of the human Chantry and died, defending their promised land to the last breath. This legacy of conflict has endured, and battle once again rages in the Dales.
"The Exalted Plains are now a contested battleground in the Orlesian civil war, and soldiers fight and die here in vast numbers. As the boundaries of reality weaken across Thedas, the memory of injustices past and present draws the attention of restless spirits who rise to possess the dead and stalk the living across the blood-steeped earth."
It may not be the case that undead are rising up in the Emerald Graves, however; it seems like a rather somber location. According to the website, "Each tree in the Emerald Graves is a reminder of a life lost during the second Exalted March."
The Chantry historical account is also sparse in details, goes into rumor and hearsay about the Dalish that depicts the worship of their "elven gods" in a malevolent manner, and paints humanity as the victims of unprovoked aggression. The simple fact comes down to how the player can't say for certain which historical account is correct, because the developers have refused to clarify the inception of the Dales, and World of Thedas (in both it's timeline and the brief entry concerning the Dales) is ambiguous.
It is however specific about the locations and progression of the campaign itself. The Dalish account is "All was well, and then the Fire Nation invaded."
To stop an aggressor who sent armed and armored soldiers into the Dales in response to elves kicking out missionaries? I strongly disagree. Given that the elven background is Dalish, I'm certain that the elven protagonist may be able to express similar sentiments, while a human protagonist may speak from a different context, given how the two are informed by different historical accounts about the start of the war, and how they view their own people.
I'd like to see the different cultural views respected for the main character, especially as the human and elven characters should be informed by different historical accounts about the start of the war in the elven homeland.
Assuming that even happened. Which again, is a big assumption. A defensive action would have been to shore up the couture's borders, not destroy cities and burn half the countryside on the way to attack the capital of the enemy nation. That goes beyond defense. I'm not sure why what the protagonist thinks would be relevant to this discussion.
I just want to see the Dalish's smug sense of superiority taken down a few pegs.
It's mentioned that some undead were rising in the Dales, to the point it halted a conflict between Orlesian soldiers in the civil war, but the Exalted Plains are the location that feature the undead becoming an issue. According to the Bioware Blog:
"The Exalted Plains of the Dales are characterized by equal measures of beauty and strife. It was here, centuries ago, that the elven nation met its bitter end. On these fields, the holdouts of the elven army faced the forces of the human Chantry and died, defending their promised land to the last breath. This legacy of conflict has endured, and battle once again rages in the Dales.
"The Exalted Plains are now a contested battleground in the Orlesian civil war, and soldiers fight and die here in vast numbers. As the boundaries of reality weaken across Thedas, the memory of injustices past and present draws the attention of restless spirits who rise to possess the dead and stalk the living across the blood-steeped earth."
It may not be the case that undead are rising up in the Emerald Graves, however; it seems like a rather somber location. According to the website, "Each tree in the Emerald Graves is a reminder of a life lost during the second Exalted March."
Interesting. Both seem to be a place to possibly encounter old Dalish/elven spirits, perhaps even converse with them.
Interesting. Both seem to be a place to possibly encounter old Dalish/elven spirits, perhaps even converse with them.
Because that worked out so well for the PC in origins...
Because that worked out so well for the PC in origins...
Talking to a dead elf trapped in a jar does unlock the most broken specialization in Origins, so it's not all bad.
Talking to a dead elf trapped in a jar does unlock the most broken specialization in Origins, so it's not all bad.
True enough i guess.
True enough i guess.
Meh, you can always kill them if they p*ss you off enough or if they are hostile.
It is however specific about the locations and progression of the campaign itself. The Dalish account is "All was well, and then the Fire Nation invaded."
According to the Chantry historical account of the Dales, "And then came an attack by the elves on the defenseless village of Red Crossing. The Chantry replied with the Exalted March of the Dales, and the era of the elven kingdom came to an end. Halamshiral was utterly destroyed, the elves driven out, scattered, left to survive on goodwill alone." As you can see, it's not that nuanced about the campaign; both the Chantry and Dalish version of the Dales have an issue of brevity, most likely due to both of them serving as codex entries and not literal historical accounts that can take the time to address these kind of details.
Assuming that even happened. Which again, is a big assumption. A defensive action would have been to shore up the couture's borders, not destroy cities and burn half the countryside on the way to attack the capital of the enemy nation. That goes beyond defense. I'm not sure why what the protagonist thinks would be relevant to this discussion.
It's an assumption for either historical account, as no developer has clarified which historical account is the correct one. Either the Dalish attacked Red Crossing in an unprovoked attack, or the Dalish retaliated against an enemy incursion into their homeland that threatened everything they worked so hard for. You and I clearly aren't going to come to a consensus on the matter.
As for the elven Inquisitor, I think the protagonist could speak about the Andrastian incursion of the Dales when visiting the Exalted Graves, given that his ancestors may be among the men and women who were buried there in defending their homeland. It's a historical site of great importance in what was the former homeland of the Dalish; I'd be surprised if it didn't come up.
I just want to see the Dalish's smug sense of superiority taken down a few pegs.
Living a life of hardship, dealing with dangerous Andrastian outsiders who constantly pose a threat to the clan, defending against potential templar attacks, having to be on the move to avoid violent confrontations with Andrastian humans, going through a painful ritual to have valalslin marked on your face to mark your rite of passage into adulthood, and the myriad of trials and tribulations that the clan and the people have to endure doesn't come across as smug to me. The Dalish elves refused to surrender their culture or their religious beliefs, and I don't think that warrants being taken "down a few pegs".
I just want to see the Dalish's smug sense of superiority taken down a few pegs.
It was this superiority that brought this upon them. The Magisters wanted to become Elvhen, immortal and every single person a mage. But in disappointment they destroyed the elves to remove any rivalry of superiority.
I didnt realize there was this much...elf hate.
Unfortunate.
It was this superiority that brought this upon them. The Magisters wanted to become Elvhen, immortal and every single person a mage. But in disappointment they destroyed the elves to remove any rivalry of superiority.
source?
Meh, you can always kill them if they p*ss you off enough or if they are hostile.
That child was very annoying i admit...
People in Thedas should learn that a person's worth is not determined by their race, but by their proximity to the Player Character and whether or not said Player Character wants to sleep with them.
Living a life of hardship, dealing with dangerous Andrastian outsiders who constantly pose a threat to the clan, defending against potential templar attacks, having to be on the move to avoid violent confrontations with Andrastian humans, going through a painful ritual to have valalslin marked on your face to mark your rite of passage into adulthood, and the myriad of trials and tribulations that the clan and the people have to endure doesn't come across as smug to me. The Dalish elves refused to surrender their culture or their religious beliefs, and I don't think that warrants being taken "down a few pegs".
none of that precludes them from being smug
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