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Utterly destroying a city with blood magic over trade disputes seems a little bit TOO excessive even for Tevinter. They wanted Elven culture gone for good.
Heck, it was probably the only way to be sure that they'd destroy Arlathan. What if they tried a lesser spell and missed? Arlathan might have blown Tevinter off the map.
Heck, it was probably the only way to be sure that they'd destroy Arlathan. What if they tried a lesser spell and missed? Arlathan might have blown Tevinter off the map.
MAD: Magically Assured Destruction.
Utterly destroying a city with blood magic over trade disputes seems a little bit TOO excessive even for Tevinter. They wanted Elven culture gone for good.
I agree, but jealousy doesn't seem to factor into it, you take what you want, you don't smash it into tiny pieces and throw it underground
Perhaps, but I'd still like to know how Arlathan, such a magical city, didn't have a single defense against the blood magic Atlantis spell. Shouldn't they have wards or something to fend off magic?
Also, why was the eluvian network shut down so suddenly when it could have probably saved them? Or was there something already trapped within the in between world?
We really don't know much about the forces of either side in the conflict, nor do we know how the battle began or any of the other details needed to even do a vaguely accurate guess of any of that.
I agree, but jealousy doesn't seem to factor into it, you take what you want, you don't smash it into tiny pieces and throw it underground
I think I am gonna stick with the Imperium was scared to death of Arlathan and wanted to eliminate the threat as quickly and completely as possible.
I'm not saying the Inquisitor will side with anyone. But if the undead are attacking the living, chances are we'll be siding with the living by default.
It has nothing to do with being pro or anti-elven.
Perhaps it's possible to use the situation to deal with the Orlesian forces, and then deal with the undead.
At which point have the devs hinted the Inquisition will be a social rigths group?
Considering that the Inquisitor can side with the mages or templars in the Mage-Templar War, I'm merely saying it may be possible to side with the elves instead of the Orlesians. It would be plausible for a Dalish protagonist to have an invested interest in the welfare of his people, and seeing an independent Dales where all the elves can live free.
MAD: Magically Assured Destruction.
Isn't it amazing what you can accomplish with a few dozen blood mages and a couple thousand slaves?
We really don't know much about the forces of either side in the conflict, nor do we know how the battle began or any of the other details needed to even do a vaguely accurate guess of any of that.
Gah, I just wanna know all the things!
I agree, but jealousy doesn't seem to factor into it, you take what you want, you don't smash it into tiny pieces and throw it underground
Maybe but my point was they couldn't take what they really wanted (immortality and making every single person a mage) so they destroyed it instead. Because they were threatened.
JB, let's drop that train of thought right there, cause it won't end well.
No real world analogies. Just supporting Steelcan's point that the main purpose of the Inquisition, as elborated upon by the devs, is to discover the Agents of Chaos and restore order. Anything else will be secondary.
I think I am gonna stick with the Imperium was scared to death of Arlathan and wanted to eliminate the threat as quickly and completely as possible.
I think they saw something in there that scared them sh*tless
Utterly destroying a city with blood magic over trade disputes seems a little bit TOO excessive even for Tevinter. They wanted Elven culture gone for good.
World of Thedas reads that the Arlathan elves withdrew from contact with humanity many years before the Imperium attacked and enslaved the elves. Gaider also mentioned in a post (that concerned how the Creators were unlikely to be the Old Gods) that the Old Gods wanted Tevinter to destroy Arlathan.
No real world analogies. Just supporting Steelcan's point that the main purpose of the Inquisition, as elborated upon by the devs, is to discover the Agents of Chaos and restore order. Anything else will be secondary.
If my dalish inquisitor had any say in this, there would be no world saving without an elven-controlled Dales.
I think they saw something in there that scared them sh*tless
That too.
Perhaps it's possible to use the situation to deal with the Orlesian forces, and then deal with the undead.
Perhaps but, much like the werewolves in DAO, we should still expect to spend the majority of the quest killing undead to protect the living orlesians.
I just hope any explanation we receive from the spirits is not as one-sided as the Geth Network mission in ME3 was.
Maybe but my point was they couldn't take what they really wanted (immortality and making every single person a mage) so they destroyed it instead. Because they were threatened.
You still haven't sourced that claim.
Gah, I just wanna know all the things!
I admit curiosity, but i am mostly indifferent.
I'd prefer more detail on the Qunari wars then anything else.
World of Thedas reads that the Arlathan elves withdrew from contact with humanity many years before the Imperium attacked and enslaved the elves. Gaider also mentioned in a post (that concerned how the Creators were unlikely to be the Old Gods) that the Old Gods wanted Tevinter to destroy Arlathan.
But was that truly because Dumat said so, or was it just the reason the Archon gave to destroy the Elves?
And we also have egaltarian strains of the dogma in which everyone is equal in comparison to the Maker, and that the Maker embraces all.
That’s true, but the point is that this concept is rarely reflected in reality, partially because of the Chantry's influence. For example, we know that at least in Denerim, out of all the Chantry priests, only one was willing to perform a wedding ceremony for the elves, or even to approach the alienage at all. This is telling, given that Fereldan has been stated to treat its elven citizens better than other nations do.
The Chantry states that the Maker embraces only those who believe in him- twice he has abandoned his people to their fate for believing in anything else. One of their core beliefs is as follows:
"Humankind has sinned and must seek penance to earn the Maker's forgiveness. When all people unite to praise the Maker, He will return to the world and make it a paradise."
Considering this, at least the Dalish elves would not be embraced by the Maker. This principle also encourages hostility towards not just the Dalish, but anyone whose beliefs differ from the norm because it states, albeit indirectly, that those people are preventing the world from becoming a paradise. This makes it easier to scapegoat these people for the world's problems (famines, bloodshed, plagues, etc.).
I consider inherency arguments about political positions non-starters because they are overwhelmingly fallacy-laden subjective arguments that reflect the arguer's preferences far more than the subject matter.
I'm no more interested arguing against your inherency arguments than I am in arguing against your favorite color. As a preference, I have no quarrel. As an objective statement, it wouldn't do any good and would be a waste of time and energy and interest.
All arguments are subjective. They draw from objective facts to reach subjective conclusions. That doesn't mean they aren't valuable or worth sharing.
Not really, but to be fair you'd need a thesis longer than this thread and you'd still be wrong about critical points here and there- like the control of the education system. The Chantry is the most prevalent center of knowledge in Thedas, but it isn't the only one and it doesn't dictate what others may or may not teach. It is not a monopoly that could accurately be described as controlling the education system, not least because there isn't an education system to be controlled and the Chantry's influence comes by default, and it doesn't exercise thought-police controls on permissable thought across Thedas.
Just because there are other centers of knowledge doesn’t mean that the Chantry doesn’t control the education system, which isn’t limited to formal methods of education (word of mouth, for example). The Chantry is also a system of education in and of itself, and the most prevalent one. The Chantry provides instruction to the powerful elite, including its own members, some of whom go on to become grand clerics and Divines. A religious education was given to King Cailan, as well as the Human Noble , who can go on to become the Warden-Commander of Amaranthine, Arl/essa of Amaranthine, Arl/essa of Denerim, Teyrn/a of Gwaren, and/or Prince/ss-Consort of Fereldan.
At least in Fereldan, mage apprentices were initially taught by a Chantry priest, and the Warden is no exception. The Chantry also schools their templars. As Alistair says, “I was educated by the Chantry. I studied history. They don’t make stupid templars.”
Commoners are also taught by the Chantry. During Summerday, one of the major religions practiced by nearly all Thedosians, “[b]oys and girls ready to come of age don white tunics and gowns. They then join a grand procession that crosses the settlement to the local Chantry, where they are taught the responsibilities of adulthood”.
The Chantry also has its own archivists and scholars. Brother Genitivi has written a number of the codex entries (I believe he’s written more of them than any one person has). In his own words, “If I can be honest, the long reign of the Chantry has made the recording of reality a challenge. Most histories have been written through the filter of my religion. Everything has meaning as it pertains to the Maker. And while this is unavoidable, it sometimes leads to conflicts between what is taught by the Chantry and what I have seen with my own eyes”.
The fact that the Chantry was able to all but erase Shartan’s memory from history by suppressing his writings and removing him from the Chant supports his statement. Whoever has the most control over the availability of information and the lines of communication to the public controls the education system, and the Chantry does exactly that. A significant part of the reason why the Chantry's supreme power is the default is because they educate nearly everyone in Thedas according to their values, often from childhood, and not necessarily through direct means.
*snip*
You, on the other hand, definitely don't seem to be having fun- if anything you seem defensive and hostile. And you aren't really countering an argument directly, and instead dwelt a good deal of time and thought on a subject you clearly dislike. So... that's nice? Maybe you enjoy the aggravation in some way? Some people live off of stress- I know I do. But usually not the sort that leaves me coming off as unhappy.
But… I am having fun. I enjoy discussing this with you and I wasn't trying to force you to change your opinion. Part of the fun of this forum is reading different points of view, at least for me. I've also read over my post and I didn't think it sounded hostile or defensive either. Maybe confusing those two with passion? I thought I was being respectful and reasonable. Did I offend you? I’m really sorry if I did but I don’t know how. And I thought I countered your argument - I never dismissed any part of it as meaningless. I've only said that I disagreed, I've given my reasons, and I've supported them with examples. You should also know I haven’t been just directly replying to the points you brought up- I've also been sharing my opinion for others on the forum to expand on or bring new perspectives to if they’d like. At least that was my intention. Anyway, whatever I did, I want to you know that I value your opinion and everyone else’s too.
I’m kind of worried that I've been offending everyone now… have I? Someone please tell me if I have.
If my dalish inquisitor had any say in this, there would be no world saving without an elven-controlled Dales.
._. That's awfully selfish, like the Wardens refusing to end a blight before they were paid.
That attitude might fly while the crisis is ongoing, but Nations have long memories, remember that bit.
Perhaps it's possible to use the situation to deal with the Orlesian forces, and then deal with the undead.
I’m kind of worried that I've been offending everyone now… have I? Someone please tell me if I have.
Trust me, most of us have some pretty thick skin. You're fine lol
You still haven't sourced that claim.
What? I clearly said it can be doubted that the elves were immortal and every single one of them was a mage, I was pointing out that Tevinter was threatened by something, and by the way the handled it, it doesn't seem like anything small. Whatever it was it challenged Tevinter, which at that time was the sole super power of Thedas. So it can be true.
No real world analogies. Just supporting Steelcan's point that the main purpose of the Inquisition, as elborated upon by the devs, is to discover the Agents of Chaos and restore order. Anything else will be secondary.
I'm sure that's Cassandra's reason, but the Inquisitor is likely shaped by the choices made by the player, and therefore an elven protagonist may see an independent Dales as a top priority.
Perhaps but, much like the werewolves in DAO, we should still expect to spend the majority of the quest killing undead to protect the living orlesians.
I just hope any explanation we receive from the spirits is not as one-sided as the Geth Network mission in ME3 was.
There was a choice provided with the dilemma between Zathrian and the Lady of the Forest, where the protagonist could side with one over the other; perhaps the situation will allow the Inquisitor to side with the elves, instead of the Orlesians.
As for the undead, if it's spirits from the Beyond inhabiting corpses from the war, it may simply be a matter of hack and slash, rather than any civil discourse.
._. That's awfully selfish, like the Wardens refusing to end a blight before they were paid.
[dalish inquisitor]Oh my poor boy, now tell me WHY I should save your decadent society that enslaved my people for hundreds of years and took all you could away from us ? Why should the elves that you despised have to help you ? What good did it do to them when they helped Andraste in her fight ? slavery and misery for countless generations, that's what it brought them ! But now it's OUR turn, and you will BEG for OUR help, for I'd rather see this world burn to the ground, rather than see it living an other day, stomping on my people[/dalish inquisitor]
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