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[Icy Magebane]

Aveline cared. If her influence grows big enough, the Captain following her might follow suit, and as such influence will spread, slowly changing Thedas for the better... Until the Elves decide to throw it all to hell, and validate all the prejudices of humans, by going to war.

Well, I'm sure the humans would see that as a good excuse to unleash the full fury of their collective xenophobia.  That doesn't mean that trying to integrate into human society is a good idea.  I'm not really thrilled with the prospect of being eternal wanderers and never settling down at all, but it's a lot better than willingly integrating into humanity and sitting in an alienage until the situation changes.  Maybe if the city elves make some progress at gaining equal rights and representation, it would look like a more appealing option to the Dalish.  As it stands, wandering in the dragon-infested wilderness is safer.

[Vapaa]

Literally anything is better than your Dalish, because unless my alternative is "kill every living person in Thedas" I will have more survivors than you

 

Maybe I should roll a "no fucks given" Inquisitor and get the bad ending, never really did bad ending playthroughs, always youtubed them.

[Master Warder Z_]

And my dalish is the extreme one ?

 

Leliana: Yes!

[Icy Magebane]

Not really. Real history in our world is just that ugly. I mean, we are all humans, no fantasy races to blame it on fantasy racism, and we still enslaved, conquered, killed, marginalized and oppressed one another.

A grim reality, to be sure...  Thedas tends to focus mainly on the negative aspects of humanity though.  I mean yeah, a lot of bad things have happened in the real world, but we see very little that's actually positive happening in Thedas.  Also, Thedas seems to be a be made of unrealistically stagnant cultures.  Certain tyrannical systems tend to persist for hundreds of years without changing... I don't know, it seems like a mockery of Earth more than anything.

 

edit:  added a bit to that post...

[LobselVith8]

The Dales becoming independent could work, since the elves in future games can simply just be hearing about it and there be talks of elves doing another Long Walk. 

 

But having nations collapse, especially the superpower, is a lot harder to manage. 

 

Perhaps the Dalish and Andrastian elves can go come out of this with positive changes for them. Maybe the Dales can be liberated so that the Dalish finally have a home, and perhaps Briala will be able to use the situation of the Orlesian civil war to the advantage of the Andrastian elves of Orlais, so that they can finally become free.

[Vapaa]

A grim reality, to be sure...  Thedas tends to focus mainly on the negative aspects of humanity though.  I mean yeah, a lot of bad things have happened in the real world, but we see very little that's actually positive happening in Thedas.

 

Thedas is virtually the same it was 900 years ago, our current society is nothing like the one that existed in the year 1114.

[Icy Magebane]

Thedas is virtually the same it was 900 years ago, our current society is nothing like the one that existed in the year 1114.

Yeah, social progress in Thedas is abnormally slow, even by fantasy standards...

[LobselVith8]

Yeah, social progress in Thedas is abnormally slow, even by fantasy standards...

 

Which becomes one of the primary issues for people who recognize the plight faced by the elves; things are almost exactly the same as they were centuries ago. It's why the notion of being limited to outcomes that are little more than perpetuating the same status quo that's been around for the better part of a millennia simply isn't appealing.

[Icy Magebane]

Which becomes one of the primary issues for people who recognize the plight faced by the elves; things are almost exactly the same as they were centuries ago. It's why the notion of being limited to outcomes that are little more than perpetuating the same status quo that's been around for the better part of a millennia simply isn't appealing.

Oh, I agree.  I don't really see the integration of all elves with humanity as a viable option, since the city elves have been living among them for centuries and haven't gained equal rights.  The only realistic options for the Dalish are to continue wandering, start a war, or leave the continent.  None of these options have particularly high odds of long-term success, but that seems to be a fundamental principle of the Dragon Age story.

[Mistic]

A grim reality, to be sure...  Thedas tends to focus mainly on the negative aspects of humanity though.  I mean yeah, a lot of bad things have happened in the real world, but we see very little that's actually positive happening in Thedas.

 

Is it? Let's look at it from another perspective:

-There's an organization that doesn't discriminate based on gender, race or religion dedicated to save the world.

-Thedas has much more open minded stances on sex and gender roles.

-Slavery is (officially) illegal in most countries.

 

Those are things that exist in Thedas yet never existed in our world at that point.

 

Thedas is virtually the same it was 900 years ago, our current society is nothing like the one that existed in the year 1114.

 

That is not a good comparison. We should compare Thedas to the Middle Ages, not the current world. It's unfair when Thedas hasn't seen the Industrial Revolution yet.

 

For example, let's suppose that the best equivalent of the Old Tevinter Imperium is the Roman Empire. The Southern Tevinter Imperium "fell" in -165 Ancient. From that moment up to 9:40, 997 years have passed (each age has 99 years and they start with 1st age, not 0th age). Now compare it to the date of the "fall" of the Western Roman Empire: 476. If we add those 997 extra years, we have 1473. The end of the Middle Ages, but still a harsh place full of wars, feudalism, serfdom, slavery, kings trying to have more power, religious wars, etc.

 

It's a very simplistic and incomplete comparison, but I think Thedas is not in a medieval stasis.

[Steelcan]

Tiny side note, at that point in history slavery was not technically illegal, but it was not practised on a large scale in Europe. It died as a large scale institution with the Roman Empire.

[Daerog]

Is a thedosian year the same as an earth year?

 

Anyway, how about the Dalish and the city elves conquer Fereldan, have northern Fereldan ruled by city/andrastian elves and the south ruled by the Dalish. They could have the Avvars help and give some western territory to them.

 

Then they can send all the humans to the free marches or kill them all.

 

Then set up some diplomacy with Nevarra and keep harassing Orlais with Nevarra to keep it weak. Then set up some treaties with Orlais. They now have a port, open land, a mountain range for a border, and out of the way. Also, they can just keep the Andrastians to the north if they wish.

 

Later, after the ElfCivil War, the City Elves will conquer the Dalish and set up better relations with other Andrastian nations. Then after two Ages, the youth will look back at the Dalish in history class and take on some dalish ideas as a form of rebellion, causing new trends and fashion. Then extreme political parties will form that distort dalish culture and religion in order to oppose andrastianism, and so nationalism will rise in new Elvhenen. Eventually, after a treaty with a new surface dwarf nation, New Elvhenen will seek to claim territory in the free marches, claiming it on historical and cultural grounds. Then things just get crazier when the Republic of Seheron gets involved and voices against the agression, making The Orlesian Federation nervous.

[Icy Magebane]

Is it? Let's look at it from another perspective:

-There's an organization that doesn't discriminate based on gender, race or religion dedicated to save the world.

-Thedas has much more open minded stances on sex and gender roles.

-Slavery is (officially) illegal in most countries.

 

Those are things that exist in Thedas yet never existed in our world at that point.

Perhaps.  The stories themselves seem to focus on atrocities, but by the same token, I have not personally witnessed humanity as a whole.  So whereas two games and a couple novels have detailed scenes of people mistreating one another to varying degrees, it's probably comparable to what happens during a ten year period of real life.  More or less.  The world is pretty big, and as I have said, I only get to witness a small portion of it.

 

Still, it wouldn't kill them to have a few positive storylines... at certain point, massacres are no longer shocking and random fictional murders no longer create drama.  If nothing good ever happens, tragedy becomes predictable and thus loses much of its emotional impact.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Perhaps.  The stories themselves seem to focus on atrocities, but by the same token, I have not personally witnessed humanity as a whole.  So whereas two games and a couple novels have detailed scenes of people mistreating one another to varying degrees, it's probably comparable to what happens during a ten year period of real life.  More or less.  The world is pretty big, and as I have said, I only get to witness a small portion of it.

 

Still, it wouldn't kill them to have a few positive storylines... at certain point, massacres are no longer shocking and random fictional murders no longer create drama.  If nothing good ever happens, tragedy becomes predictable and thus loses much of its emotional impact.

Well of course we only see the horrible side of Thedas. If we were to see the good side, there wouldn't be any need for us, the heroes, to fix things.

 

Judging all of Thedas based on the stories we are told, is like judging the world based on the story a movie tells. We only witness a tiny fragment, and cannot make out the whole.

That being said, Thedas is NOT a nice place. There is giant predatory wildlife, extradimensional threats, religious and ideological war, and multitudes of other threats that we never had to deal with.

[Zanallen]

Is it? Let's look at it from another perspective:

-There's an organization that doesn't discriminate based on gender, race or religion dedicated to save the world.

-Thedas has much more open minded stances on sex and gender roles.

-Slavery is (officially) illegal in most countries.

 

Those are things that exist in Thedas yet never existed in our world at that point.

 

 

That is not a good comparison. We should compare Thedas to the Middle Ages, not the current world. It's unfair when Thedas hasn't seen the Industrial Revolution yet.

 

For example, let's suppose that the best equivalent of the Old Tevinter Imperium is the Roman Empire. The Southern Tevinter Imperium "fell" in -165 Ancient. From that moment up to 9:40, 997 years have passed (each age has 99 years and they start with 1st age, not 0th age). Now compare it to the date of the "fall" of the Western Roman Empire: 476. If we add those 997 extra years, we have 1473. The end of the Middle Ages, but still a harsh place full of wars, feudalism, serfdom, slavery, kings trying to have more power, religious wars, etc.

 

It's a very simplistic and incomplete comparison, but I think Thedas is not in a medieval stasis.

 

 

Don't forget the periodic Blights that no doubt serve to help prevent Thedas from really advancing. It is hard to really grow as a culture when you face possible extinction every few generations.

[Master Warder Z_]

Don't forget the periodic Blights that no doubt serve to help prevent Thedas from really advancing. It is hard to really grow as a culture when you face possible extinction every few generations.

 

Exactly, it takes decades to just rebuild what was lost physically, not to mention you're likely losing most of the fighting age generation during said event, so who is there to advance the world?

 

Most of Thedas at one point or another has suffered a Blight.

[Xilizhra]

Aveline cared. If her influence grows big enough, the Captain following her might follow suit, and as such influence will spread, slowly changing Thedas for the better... Until the Elves decide to throw it all to hell, and validate all the prejudices of humans, by going to war.

Aveline didn't care enough to not trigger the Arishok's rampage by trying to arrest those elves who killed someone who never would have been brought to justice otherwise.

[Daerog]

If human-elven tensions ease and they successfully integrate into human society elves go extinct from miscegenation. If the elves unite to rebel and go to war against humans the get slaughtered. If they find themselves a new land humans might view it as provocation and they'll get slaughtered anyway. 

 

It's like the only two options for them is remaining in poverty with elven-human relations strained. Or wandering the lands with a reputation for banditry when all they want is to survive and recover their lost culture. 

 

**** this! I'm thinking of playing an elf in Inquisition. And if I can "leave the world to it's bitter end" I will.

 

If that is the case, then I would propose a vassal state. A place where the elves govern their own, but pay tribute to a human nation for protection. At least until that humwn nation weakens and the elves are established enough to go independent.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Perhaps the Dalish and Andrastian elves can go come out of this with positive changes for them. Maybe the Dales can be liberated so that the Dalish finally have a home, and perhaps Briala will be able to use the situation of the Orlesian civil war to the advantage of the Andrastian elves of Orlais, so that they can finally become free.

Hopefully. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If that is the case, then I would propose a vassal state. A place where the elves govern their own, but pay tribute to a human nation for protection. At least until that humwn nation weakens and the elves are established enough to go independent.

I can see Orlais, or at least Celene-ruled Orlais, agreeing to the Dales becoming a protectorate of the empire. It benefits the elves since they have a homeland and it benefits Orlais because it gives them a source of income in the form of taxes and trade. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It's not all butterflies and sunshine. The Dales would be buffer state between Orlais and Ferelden. When it comes time for them to throw down again Orlais will be handing out conscriptions all around. Elven soldiers would be viewed as expendable. 

 

I'm not saying such an agreement isn't beneficial, but it isn't ideal either.

I'm not saying that either. But it is better than what they currently have. 

[Master Warder Z_]

It's not all butterflies and sunshine. The Dales would be buffer state between Orlais and Ferelden. When it comes time for them to throw down again Orlais will be handing out conscriptions all around. Elven soldiers would be viewed as expendable. 

 

I'm not saying such an agreement isn't beneficial, but it isn't ideal either.

 

Personally i think Gaspard would be more agreeable to an elven puppet state then even Celene, not to mention he would actually have the clout to push that agenda, assuming he wanted to bother with it.

[Daerog]

I can see Orlais, or at least Celene-ruled Orlais, agreeing to the Dales becoming a protectorate of the empire. It benefits the elves since they have a homeland and it benefits Orlais because it gives them a source of income in the form of taxes and trade. 

 

Also, more soldiers. For the Emperor!