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[MisterJB]

Not from what I remember; Alistair just declares that the Grey Wardens own it now. He's the king, he can do that.

He gave them the arling, yes. But unless he decided to cut away a piece of Ferelden, grant it autonomy and give it to a neutral, international organization; because the Ferelden peasants and lesser lords that used to owe loyalty to Howe now owe it to the Warden Commander; then the arling is still part of the Noble hierarchy of Ferelden which makes them a vassal of Highever and thus of Fergus.

[LobselVith8]

You really are an Elf zealot aren't you?

 

Perhaps you could try speaking to Faerunner with some civility?

 

The Amells aren't even nobelity anymore. And then we are even ignoring the fact that they were Free Marchers and not Ferelden, and as such do not even factor into Ferelden politics.

 

Technically speaking, the Amells are. The Viscount even offered him to officially take the Amell name. The developers simply took that offer out of our hands and had him decline the offer, because he wanted to make the 'Hawke' name significant.

 

And no matter how you put it, the Couslands DID treat their Elven servants well.

 

Well, one person says that the Couslands treated their servants well, and I'm doubtful she would have said anything else to the person who was speculated to be the Cousland heir (given what certain dialogue options mention). The truth is we aren't afforded an elven perspective to see how elves get treated by the different members of the Cousland family on a daily basis.

 

 And obviously those of you who criticize the kitchen scene has never yourselves worked in a kitchen, so I'll just chalk that up to plain old ignorance.

 

Those of us who address what the developers wrote to be conveyed with that scene, you mean? Which was to show an example of racism from the other side of the spectrum, as opposed to the City Elven Origin, where we're looking at it from the eyes of a city elf.

[AresKeith]

Yep. And the Couslands can end the game with one son/daugther being the Prince-Consort/King/Queen, Teyrn(of which there are only two) of Gwaren, Arl/essa of Amaranthine, Champion of Redcliff, Hero of Ferelden, Commander of the Grey and the other is the Teyrn of Highever.

You see this?



It's ours. We own it. Everyone else just lives in it.

Cousland FTW

[Xilizhra]

He gave them the arling, yes. But unless he decided to cut away a piece of Ferelden, grant it autonomy and give it to a neutral, international organization; because the Ferelden peasants and lesser lords that used to owe loyalty to Howe now owe it to the Warden Commander; then the arling is still part of the Noble hierarchy of Ferelden which makes them a vassal of Highever and thus of Fergus.

Your sentence fragments are mildly confusing to me. However, from what I can tell, that's exactly what he did. Certainly Varel never tells you anything about dealing with Fergus in Awakening; Amaranthine appears completely independent.

[LobselVith8]

Was just skimming info about the Dales on the wiki and I'm reminded that after 700 years the Dales is still mostly elven. It seems a bit odd. I mean, why haven't the Orlesians colonized it more thoroughly?

 

It's an entire nation of elves; it was probably difficult, or not outright impossible, for the Orlesians to completely remove them. With the injustices and the purges (the recent one in the former elven capital of Halamshiral) perpetuated against the elves over the centuries, it's possible that the significant elven population of the nation might come into play if the Inquisition can effect the social and political outcome of the region, given how the protagonist can be Dalish.

[MisterJB]

Your sentence fragments are mildly confusing to me. However, from what I can tell, that's exactly what he did. Certainly Varel never tells you anything about dealing with Fergus in Awakening; Amaranthine appears completely independent.

"Appears". Just because we didn't have to deal with our liege lord in the few months the Expansion spans, it doesn't mean the Arling stopped being a part of Ferelden just because the Wardens are now Arls.

The simple fact that Amaranthine is still considered an arling rather than a state of its own means it is still part of Ferelden and thus subject to Teyrns and the Monarchs.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Was just skimming info about the Dales on the wiki and I'm reminded that after 700 years the Dales is still mostly elven. It seems a bit odd. I mean, why haven't the Orlesians colonized it more thoroughly?

As I mentioned earlier, the Dales that was an elven nation seems to cover more area than the Dales that is an Orlesian province. There appear to be two or three major human cities that didn't seem to exist at the time the elves ruled.

[Ladylionhart]

Speaking as someone who is 100 percent Pro Elven.I really think they deserve their own place to call home.Including the city elves.They need a place to call their own,a place where they aren't judged or treated like servents.

 

That's one of the things I hate about some games...they always put the elves in a serving role.Elves deserve to be treated equally.

[MisterJB]

Oh, and remember how Nathaniel's epilogue states that he saved Fergus Cousland from bandits and that he granted Nate's nephew a portion of Amaranthine? Not Highever, Amaranthine.

So, yeah, the Warden Commander is a lesser lord an Fergus is our liege lord.

[lil yonce]

because it probably isn't high quality land

Actually that's right. I passed over that little fact in my initial skim. There are no major rivers in the area and it receives little rainfall. Most of the human settlements in the Dales are on or near the coast by consequence. Kinda sad for the elves that the land isn't so good if they do take it back.

[Xilizhra]

"Appears". Just because we didn't have to deal with our liege lord in the few months the Expansion spans, it doesn't mean the Arling stopped being a part of Ferelden just because the Wardens are now Arls.

The simple fact that Amaranthine is still considered an arling rather than a state of its own means it is still part of Ferelden and thus subject to Teyrns and the Monarchs.

Subject to the monarchs, sure, but no indication that it's subordinate to Highever (whereas we do see that Alistair and/or Anora are still watching over the place). It's not big enough to be its own teyrnir, but there's no indication that independent arlings don't exist; Redcliffe, for instance, appears to swear fealty to no one except the crown (given that Loghain and Howe were the two teyrns, one would think that it'd be brought up if Eamon was opposing his own liege lord as opposed to only the regent).

[Char]

Speaking as someone who is 100 percent Pro Elven.I really think they deserve their own place to call home.Including the city elves.They need a place to call their own,a place where they aren't judged or treated like servents.

 

That's one of the things I hate about some games...they always put the elves in a serving role.Elves deserve to be treated equally.

 

I find it quite refreshing to see elves in a subordinate position, after the Tolkien-driven depictions of them as being benevolent, wise and generally better than humans (longer lived, faster, more magical)

That being said, I do feel for the DA elves, as I would naturally feel sympathy for anyone oppressed.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Perhaps you could try speaking to Faerunner with some civility?

 

 

Her zealotry does not invite civil discussion. She has an obvious distaste for anyone who isn't willing to bow down to her percieved Elven overlords. There are no discussions to be had.

 

Technically speaking, the Amells are. The Viscount even offered him to officially take the Amell name. The developers simply took that offer out of our hands and had him decline the offer, because he wanted to make the 'Hawke' name significant.

Hawke is the noble. Gamlen is NOT. And the rest of the Amell family died off. Meaning Amell is NOT nobility.

 

Well, one person says that the Couslands treated their servants well, and I'm doubtful she would have said anything else to the person who was speculated to be the Cousland heir (given what certain dialogue options mention). The truth is we aren't afforded an elven perspective to see how elves get treated by the different members of the Cousland family on a daily basis.

I'm sure you are inclined to not believe anything that puts human nobility in a positive light.

 

 

Those of us who address what the developers wrote to be conveyed with that scene, you mean? Which was to show an example of racism from the other side of the spectrum, as opposed to the City Elven Origin, where we're looking at it from the eyes of a city elf.

Yes. Exactly the lot of you. OBVIOUSLY you haven't worked in a kitchen if you think a few harsh words convey racism. That is completely common, and utterly tame, kitchen jargon. So of course you couldn't "call nan out on it", since there is nothing to call her on.

[Xilizhra]

 

 

Hawke is the noble. Gamlen is NOT. And the rest of the Amell family died off. Meaning Amell is NOT nobility.

 

That makes no sense. The Hawke line certainly isn't noble, and if Hawke's only qualification was getting lots of money, she wouldn't be a noble in Act 2, but nouveau riche.

[Milan92]

Subject to the monarchs, sure, but no indication that it's subordinate to Highever (whereas we do see that Alistair and/or Anora are still watching over the place). It's not big enough to be its own teyrnir, but there's no indication that independent arlings don't exist; Redcliffe, for instance, appears to swear fealty to no one except the crown (given that Loghain and Howe were the two teyrns, one would think that it'd be brought up if Eamon was opposing his own liege lord as opposed to only the regent).

 

That's because Redcliff didn't fall under the Teyrnir of Gwaren. 

 

However, Amaranthine was a vassal of Highever.

 

How on earth do you think Fergus could have given pieces of Amaranthine otherwise?

[Xilizhra]

That's because Redcliff didn't fall under the Teyrnir of Gwaren. 

 

However, Amaranthine was a vassal of Highever.

 

How on earth do you think Fergus could have given pieces of Amaranthine otherwise?

Oh, epilogue slides. I like the one where Cullen became a serial killer.

 

Also, Howe was Teyrn of Highever, so if Redcliffe fell under that, he'd still be opposing his lord.

[Master Warder Z_]

I find it quite refreshing to see elves in a subordinate position, after the Tolkien-driven depictions of them as being benevolent, wise and generally better than humans (longer lived, faster, more magical)

That being said, I do feel for the DA elves, as I would naturally feel sympathy for anyone oppressed.

 

They deserve it, their elves after all.

[MisterJB]

It's not big enough to be its own teyrnir, but there's no indication that independent arlings don't exist; Redcliffe, for instance, appears to swear fealty to no one except the crown (given that Loghain and Howe were the two teyrns, one would think that it'd be brought up if Eamon was opposing his own liege lord as opposed to only the regent).

That much is true. Redcliff is an odd case; it's touted as being the only one strong and popular enough to challenge Loghain; maybe because its forces were not at Ostagar; there are no mentions in DAO of the Human Noble Warden or Loghain being Eamon's lord, Witch Hunt touts it as possibly becoming a city rivaling Denerim and Eamon's sister used to be queen.

And despite all of this, they are still only arls who are supposed to be below the Teyrns. They really should have made Redcliff a teyrnir. Highever in the North, Gwaren in the South and Redcliff in the West.
 

[LobselVith8]

Actually that's right. I passed over that little fact in my initial skim. There are no major rivers in the area and it receives little rainfall. Most of the human settlements in the Dales are on or near the coast by consequence. Kinda sad for the elves that the land isn't so good if they do take it back.

 

I remember Kirby mentioning how the settlements were along the coast; she said that the Dales was in the mountain shadow of the Frostbacks, with little rainfall and no signigicant rivers, so most of the modern human settlements are along the coast.

[Master Warder Z_]

That much is true. Redcliff is an odd case; it's touted as being the only one strong and popular enough to challenge Loghain; maybe because its forces were not at Ostagar; there are no mentions in DAO of the Human Noble Warden or Loghain being Eamon's lord, Witch Hunt touts it as possibly becoming a city rivaling Denerim and Eamon's sister used to be queen.

And despite all of this, they are still only arls who are supposed to be below the Teyrns. They really should have made Redcliff a teyrnir. Highever in the North, Gwaren in the South and Redcliff in the West.
 

 

They should have, but they didn't its still an Arling.

[MisterJB]

Oh, epilogue slides. I like the one where Cullen became a serial killer.

Disergarding everything that contradicts your point?

It's undeniable the writers gave Fergus the ability to take pieces of Amaranthine and grant them to others if he felt like it; even after it passed to Grey Wardens; making him the liege lord of the Arling.

[Xilizhra]

Disergarding everything that contradicts your point?

It's undeniable the writers gave Fergus the ability to take pieces of Amaranthine and grant them to others if he felt like it; even after it passed to Grey Wardens; making him the lord of that land and its arl.

Then I suppose all we can do is wait until DAI to see if it'll be addressed. Which it almost certainly won't, because the Couslands aren't important to the story.

[Char]

 

 

Hawke is the noble. Gamlen is NOT. And the rest of the Amell family died off. Meaning Amell is NOT nobility.

 

 

 

 

If we're being technical here, as the eldest male of the Amell line, Gamlen would have been born into nobility, and been expected to carry on the noble family line. He gambled away all his possessions and any claims to nobility but it doesn't change the fact that Gamlen and Leandra were born into a noble family and were therefore nobles 'by blood'. 

The Amells are what would be considered a lapsed noble family-one with noble origins but which had fallen into disrepute. These can be reinstated.

 

The Hawkes, as far as we know in-game were not a noble family. 

[Milan92]

Oh, epilogue slides. I like the one where Cullen became a serial killer.

 

Also, Howe was Teyrn of Highever, so if Redcliffe fell under that, he'd still be opposing his lord.

 

Oh. that's just rich. Only pulling the "Oh lolz epilogue slides" when it works in your favor huh? I guess we could then also say that Alistair is a horrible king because "Lolz epilogue slides".

[Xilizhra]

Oh. that's just rich. Only pulling the "Oh lolz epilogue" slides when it would work in your favor huh? I guess we could then also say that Alistair is a horrible king because "Lolz epilogue slides"

Alistair's kingly quality can be directly assessed in DA2 and the comics. Really, though, I think that all this will be irrelevant. I certainly hope it is, because I have no interest in Fereldan noble politics; having to deal with Orlais' crap will be quite enough.