50 réponses à ce sujet

[Zerker]

Hey gentlemen,

 

Even though the game is not released yet, and we don't really have a lot of info on our hands; I would like to start a discussion about community's concerns on the quality of story content, as well as the dialogue and decision-making, based on the content we have seen so far.

 

Now what I mean by "community" isn't exactly Bioware forums. During the hobby conventions we organize in my own country, the conversations almost always include Bioware, Inquisition and Mass Effect series. During those, people voice concerns over the route that has been taken since Origins(which also had a lot of criticism), and I really don't see the arguements we have on those platforms, as well as other social platforms, on Bioware forums. Well, at least they don't dominate the place around here(as far as I can see), which I can't really determine if it's for the good or the bad.

 

In any case, from what I have read so far, I think the "bioware social network" based community and the non-web ones, as well as the "more critical" internet communities(if that's a proper categorization, not sure at all) are terribly out of sync. In order to get an idea on what is shared, and what is not; I wish to ask a few questions based on the complaints and concerns I've gathered during friendly meetings, conventions, reddit and so on.

 

 

- Companion reveals usually came with some kind of an advertisement poster, which included the characters portrait, and a single line of monologue, to give an idea about their personalities. Consensual reaction to these lines was that they were incredibly cheesy and cheap; leading to inevitable comparisons with lines from Baldur's Gate series, the Witcher series, Arcanum and so on. There is a terrifying amount of speculation that suggests Bioware might be targeting a less mature audience, Twilight youth in trash talk.

 

What is your take on this? What was your reaction, if you had a significant one?

 

 

- During the gameplay footage we've seen, we observed Leliana killing the boy despite Inquisitor's effort to reach a deal. The entire atmosphere of the gameplay(including the bullet sponge-ish boss fight) was so very similar to Dragon Age 2(which is either hated or heavily criticized by the non-web communities I've been in, as mentioned) that, the concern of decision-making not having any significant effect again, even though it is way too early to have a proper idea on that, became quickly popular. In defense of this however, the gameplay really looked nothing more than a DA-2 DLC in that video, creating a bit of minor paranioa.

 

What did you feel about that part in the footage?

 

 

In general, the lack of emphasis so far on the military discipline and the role of military leadership, David Gaider's twitter comments on the Dragon Age series denying the fans' claims on the importance of plot holes and other problems in the second game's story content, or what a plot hole is for that matter, the apparent similarity to Dragon Age 2 athmosphere wise, the possible lack of in-depth, interesting characters again, the paranoia of writers being kind of forced to limit themselves(aside from word budget) that has been around since the Mass Effect 3 ending controversy, and that ghost boy with "i have serious puberty problems, also, vamp kids <3" face are the voices of concern I have heard dominating some hobby communities or gatherings I have been in outside of Bioware forums. Would like to get your take on that as well.

 

 

Thank you for participating!

[Ceoldoren]

You do first and foremost realize that you can't compare the work done by the Mass Effect team and the work done by the Dragon Age team, right ? It's the same company but a completely different division. 

 

I'll start off with my thoughts on the little companion blurbs, or lack thereof. I don't really see what's cheesy or what the issue with them is, or why you think they are targeting a younger audience based off of companion appearances and a single quote. But it seems incredibly unfair. 

 

As for the second part, this I can see being an issue to some people. Except for the fact that they've already stated that nothing has to turn out the way it does in the E3 demo. Leliana doesn't have to get tortured or even be present. Alexius can be reasoned with. ect. As for the concerns with gameplay I'd say that's down to personal taste. If you don't like it you're more then welcome not to.

 

You're third topic is completely based off irrational fear and not much more, and I don't see the point in commenting on that.

 

Overall you seem to be basing all of your complaints off the two gameplay demos we saw, and some character quotes and appearances. Not much evidence to back up any of your complaints other then "Well these guys I hang out with all agree it looks bad" 

[Zerker]

Yes, I'm aware that Mass Effect and Dragon Age teams are different.

 

Try not to turn this into "OP's complaints that need to be adressed", if you please. As I've mentioned, even though I share some of the concerns, mostly due to the terrible disappointments of the last few years, the points made are not accusations to a product that is not even out yet. You have to recognize that there are at least two very distinct opinions on Bioware, a split among the consumers that occurred after the second game of the series; and the highly critic crowd, or communities, usually resent the fact that even after the controversies the Bioware forums fanbase still seems quite optimistic and loyal, that's putting it mildly; as I'm sure you are aware of the trashy name given to the community members.

 

Discussions in conventions I've participated in do not share that; yet they do share the points. That vast difference between the communities seem rather odd to the foreign eye; and I merely wish to learn and see, if I can, if the Bioware forums share the mild paranoia and negativity basically every other consumer suffers after the disaster of DA-2, and based on the most recent products of Bioware.

 

I'm not attacking the product, not yet, I actually quite liked the first game; and I will likely buy Inquisiton if it performs even a little better than the last Bioware games. Please don't feel the need to defend anything, it's not necessary.

 

Back to the discussion.

[Zatche]

That vast difference between the communities seem rather odd to the foreign eye; and I wish to see, if I can, if the Bioware forums share the mild paranoia and negativity basically every other consumer suffers after the disaster of DA-2, and based on the most recent products of Bioware.

 

It's a mixed bag optimists and pessimists. Most of your topics have been heavily debated on here.

 

Here's a thread on one of them: http://forum.bioware...he-inquisition/

[CuriousArtemis]

I'm 33 years old and I love the companion bios and blurbs.

I'm very excited about the quest we saw involving Dorian and Leliana and can't wait to see how the nature of my own choices will affect the outcome of that quest and others.

The only other online community I'm involved with is excited about the game and most also loved both previous games.

I have a friend who's not involved in any online community at all, and she's also excited.

From what I can tell, the Tumblr community seems excited also.

Maybe you need to find some new communities to hang out in or perhaps play games that are more to your personal taste. If you did not like DA2 and are afraid DAI will be just like it, then don't buy it and don't play it. And don't come into the official forums asking if anyone hates it as much as you do.

I suggest focusing your free time discussing things you actually like; life is short

[Not a Cat Doll]

"Hey, gentlemen..."

 

Oh, sorry, wrong thread for me then.

[TheLittleBird]

If you think the BSN is all optimistic about the game and the word "concern" doesn't exist here... then I think you need to take a better look around.

[Enigmatick]

Blurbs were awful, only the older characters had decent ones.

 

The choice made that ended up with Leliana killing the boy was clearly made so they could get a boss fight for the video, given the nature of the quest there has to option to end with Alexius' compliance.

 

Explain what you mean about about the lack of military discipline, the troops especially the commanders were very much in line in the DigiExpo video

Honestly that one as a whole was a much better demo.

 

I don't like Cole so far and know you're being hyperbolic but where did you draw "puberty problems and vamp kids" from? That seems to have no basis other than to be insulting which is dissapointing given the rest of your decently thought out  post.

[Zerker]

"Hey, gentlemen..."

 

Oh, sorry, wrong thread for me then.

oh for f*cks sake

 

really

[Enigmatick]

oh for f*cks sake

 

really

I'm pretty sure she was just ****** around, man. Don't take posts like that too seriously.

[Samahl]

oh for f*cks sake

 

really

 

Maybe you should use more gender-inclusive language. It doesn't hurt.

[Icy Magebane]

oh for f*cks sake

 

really

lol... tbh that stood out to me too.

 

Um... and just so that I'm not entirely off topic, I'll just say that if you peruse the site a bit I'm sure you'll find several hundred pages of concerns that cover a wide range of game features... this is hardly a site dominated by sycophants.

[frylock23]

I'm worried. It wouldn't be fair of me to say otherwise. I like some of the things they've done, but I haven't yet seen enough of how game play will work mechanically to know if they've really hit the sweet spot between DA2's overly theatrical silliness and DA:O which I actually grew to like.

 

I'm a little disappointed in the character reveals. The only ones I feel that I have a real handle on are the ones I've gotten to know from previous games. Therefore, I feel that I know Cullen, Leliana, and Varric, but I'm still not at all sure who any of others are supposed to be. The intro trailers used in the past at least gave you a real "feel" for who the characters might be by giving you a glimpse of them. One quote could be anything. Anyone can be quoted completely out of context. It happens all the time, and while they may be trying to pick something they feel sums up the essence of who the character is ... that is open to interpretation.

 

As for the target audience, is it so much that they are targeting kiddies, or is it that you and your friends are maturing and developing in your tastes? To me, I've seen little that suggests that the overall tone of this game has changed over the other two, so if it seems that way to you ... maybe it's you who have changed. And I'm nearly 40. 

[Chernaya]

I don't really see how the character portraits and the accompanied quotes means they are suddenly targeting a younger audience. You can try to compare it to other unrelated methods, but Bioware is Bioware and the way they choose to advertise their upcoming game has nothing to do with how other companies do it. That's just a stretch. My reaction was indifferent for the most part, but I enjoyed getting a small head-start on what their looks/personality would be like.

 

I liked that Leliana made her own decision. I don't want to play a game where every other character is just my puppet to control. I want complete control of my own character, but the companions and advisors are their own separate entities with a variety of different personalities. Perhaps if they chose a different dialogue choice they would have had a chance to try to talk her out of it, but they didn't choose that one if it existed. We only got to see one possibility. 

 

The game isn't out yet. You can speculate and worry, but these points brought up seem like a real grasping at straws. "ghost boy with I have serious puberty problems" is a matter of personal taste and nobody can help someone if they just so happen to not enjoy the appearance/design of a character. I assume you mean Cole, who is a central character in a book that many people seem to be looking forward to. 

 

In summary: You won't know until you try it. But these concerns seem poorly supported and I don't see any reason to think this game will be too much like either Origins or DA2.

[Icy Magebane]

I'm a little disappointed in the character reveals. The only ones I feel that I have a real handle on are the ones I've gotten to know from previous games. Therefore, I feel that I know Cullen, Leliana, and Varric, but I'm still not at all sure who any of others are supposed to be. The intro trailers used in the past at least gave you a real "feel" for who the characters might be by giving you a glimpse of them. One quote could be anything. Anyone can be quoted completely out of context. It happens all the time, and while they may be trying to pick something they feel sums up the essence of who the character is ... that is open to interpretation.

For anyone who's interested in this subject, the individual character threads have some really good info taken from various Bioware interviews.  I was also confused, but reading some of it helped me get a better understanding of the cast (except for Blackwell, who seems to be almost a complete unknown).  The only problem is that you may need to sift through a lot of romance talk and pictures to get to any of it (although admittedly the art is pretty good).  It's worth checking out, but take it with a grain of salt since it might not be exactly the same once the game reaches us...

[Dabrikishaw]

All I'm going to say is there are plenty of people here critical about Bioware's games.

[Zerker]

Explain what you mean about about the lack of military discipline, the troops especially the commanders were very much in line in the DigiExpo video

Honestly that one as a whole was a much better demo.

It actually falls back to the character reveals and footages. The way the Inquisiton is represented is that the continent is in some serious ****; and it needs a highly militarized force of specialist personnel to put everyone and everything back in line.

 

The relationship between Inquisitor and his companions from what little we have seen didn't really fit the theme of officer and commander. Again, emphasis on "what little". It might be hated around the official forums, but the line "lol bioware" is used to adress such situtations in the story content in reviews and commentaries, it is not a trash slang; just points out some incostincensies on the story settings of ME-3 and DA-2. We are just having a little hard time not to find "lol bioware" in the poorly represented aspects of the product so far; as the pattern of the last few years was so disapponting, a single flaw in marketing leads to chit-chat on concerns about the modern rpg world settings when a conversation on Bioware is ignited.

 

In the link posted in this thread, David Gaider commented on possible repercussions to insubordinance against the Inquisitor(Leliana in particular); leading me to believe we may not be seeing the incredibly poor setting of Kirkwall again. May be. In any case, if there is indeed a decision to role play as an actual military commander fit to lead forces through such a chaotic atmosphere; and not a guy that does R&R during an extraterrestrial invasion, the game has my vote.

[TheLittleBird]

To me the companions don't strike me as the 'anomalies' among the Inquisition's forces (i.e. they're unique but still soldiers). No, they're all leaders of certain branches of the Inquisition. At least that's what I gathered from the info we've gotten.

So the relation between the Inquisitor and his companions is not filled with orders, but with comradery (or lack thereof), as if the Inquisitor's the lead singer and the companions make up the rest of the band.

We must not forget that the PC has always played a leading role in the party in BW games, as it is he or she who makes the decisions.
The Inquisitor as a real 'commander', though, is likely to be found in the relation between him/her and the Inquisition's soldiers. Like in that old demo, in Crestwood and the Western Approach.

[Reznore57]

I think there's a problem between what Marketing is saying and how the story happens.

The Inquisitor doesn't become a leader right after the breach , he/she may get the "Leader" title because The Inquisition needs somebody who will rally people.It seems Faith will be used , and the rumor will be the Inquisitor has been "chosen" and "saved " by the Maker.

 

Behind close door , there's no reasons for Cassandra and co to follow your every order.

You'll need to earn your leader title and prove yourself.

The truth at first is , your pc has the glowy hand of salvation , The Inquisition (which was already created before the Inquisitor appears) has all the rest.

 

Cassandra was already looking for Hawke or the Warden to rally people in the whole Inquisition thingie.

[Enigmatick]

It actually falls back to the character reveals and footages. The way the Inquisiton is represented is that the continent is in some serious ****; and it needs a highly militarized force of specialist personnel to put everyone and everything back in line.

 

The relationship between Inquisitor and his companions from what little we have seen didn't really fit the theme of officer and commander. Again, emphasis on "what little". It might be hated around the official forums, but the line "lol bioware" is used to adress such situtations in the story content in reviews and commentaries, it is not a trash slang; just points out some incostincensies on the story settings of ME-3 and DA-2. We are just having a little hard time not to find "lol bioware" in the poorly represented aspects of the product so far; as the pattern of the last few years was so disapponting, a single flaw in marketing leads to chit-chat on concerns about the modern rpg world settings when a conversation on Bioware is ignited.

 

In the link posted in this thread, David Gaider commented on possible repercussions to insubordinance against the Inquisitor(Leliana in particular); leading me to believe we may not be seeing the incredibly poor setting of Kirkwall again. May be. In any case, if there is indeed a decision to role play as an actual military commander fit to lead forces through such a chaotic atmosphere; and not a guy that does R&R during an extraterrestrial invasion, the game has my vote.

Your thoughts on?

[Zerker]

Thank you.

 

Will give them when I take the time to watch the whole thing.

[Zatche]

For anyone who's interested in this subject, the individual character threads have some really good info taken from various Bioware interviews. I was also confused, but reading some of it helped me get a better understanding of the cast (except for Blackwell, who seems to be almost a complete unknown). The only problem is that you may need to sift through a lot of romance talk and pictures to get to any of it (although admittedly the art is pretty good). It's worth checking out, but take it with a grain of salt since it might not be exactly the same once the game reaches us...

To add on to this, the interviews themselves, the ones on the official website for each character and their writer, are much more telling than the blurbs.

[Panda]

Although I admit that DA2 and ME3 had some problems they are still one of best games I have played. I guess BW just does the style of games that I like. I know that they are in some sites highly unliked but I guess everyone just can't like everything.

 

I don't know what to say about BW's style of revealing characters. They have wide market they are aiming their game for, I'd say that they are going for wider market than most of game company's seem to go for. Maybe "twilight"-like fans are part of their market area then? ^^; Personally I don't have complains, I enjoyed getting to know our companions better this way. I wonder what way you would have preferred? Just put the character descriptions up without flashy stuff? ^^

 

I have liked pretty much everything they have showed so far apart from limiting health regen

[yearnfully]

Companion reveals usually came with some kind of an advertisement poster, which included the characters portrait, and a single line of monologue, to give an idea about their personalities. Consensual reaction to these lines was that they were incredibly cheesy and cheap; leading to inevitable comparisons with lines from Baldur's Gate series, the Witcher series, Arcanum and so on. There is a terrifying amount of speculation that suggests Bioware might be targeting a less mature audience, Twilight youth in trash talk.

 

What is your take on this? What was your reaction, if you had a significant one?

most of the quotes were cringeworthy i agree lol ... and i think i am part of the youth you're talking about (except i didn't read twilight lol)

 

 

During the gameplay footage we've seen, we observed Leliana killing the boy despite Inquisitor's effort to reach a deal. The entire atmosphere of the gameplay(including the bullet sponge-ish boss fight) was so very similar to Dragon Age 2(which is either hated or heavily criticized by the non-web communities I've been in, as mentioned) that, the concern of decision-making not having any significant effect again, even though it is way too early to have a proper idea on that, became quickly popular. In defense of this however, the gameplay really looked nothing more than a DA-2 DLC in that video, creating a bit of minor paranioa.

 

What did you feel about that part in the footage?

as Enigmatick said, i think they knew what would come of that and wanted to choose the choice that would result in a boss fight for the demo. also apparently that quest may never happen. it may be the result of failing a different quest, or failing to meet a time limit, etc. and maybe if you sent an advisor other than leliana it would go better? i heard one of the bioware people say that a lot of different choices and decisions affect it. the whole quest we saw looked like what could happen if you made all the wrong decisions.

as for the gameplay, i understand the comparison to DA2. i didn't really like DA2's combat so i hope inquisition is different. i like to play zoomed out, and i'm confused about the state of the camera angles in inquisition. apparently you have to continuously hold a button to use a certain camera angle? i don't really like the sound of that but i think i'm having trouble understanding. i hope we can zoom the camera out hopefully with the mousewheel and without having to hold down a button the entire time

also they played the demo on easy i'm pretty sure, i wish i was able to see it played on a higher difficulty like hard or nightmare, and with a PC interface

i guess i just need to be able to play for myself with my own settings

 

 

In general, the lack of emphasis so far on the military discipline and the role of military leadership, David Gaider's twitter comments on the Dragon Age series denying the fans' claims on the importance of plot holes and other problems in the second game's story content, or what a plot hole is for that matter, the apparent similarity to Dragon Age 2 athmosphere wise, the possible lack of in-depth, interesting characters again, the paranoia of writers being kind of forced to limit themselves(aside from word budget) that has been around since the Mass Effect 3 ending controversy, and that ghost boy with "i have serious puberty problems, also, vamp kids <3" face are the voices of concern I have heard dominating some hobby communities or gatherings I have been in outside of Bioware forums. Would like to get your take on that as well.

• well, i agree i'd like to learn more about the troops you have, the skyhold, how you can affect your troops, etc. i'm one of the people who is interested in the skyhold overall and its customization and stuff so i agree
• i don't have a twitter so i don't really know what you are talking about, but  i can only hope they avoid repeating the many problems da2 had
• i'm hoping and i think inquisition will have a better atmosphere than dragon age 2 since da2 was really rushed and it showed, but i don't know. there are some similarities i don't really like, such as the paraphrasing dialogue wheel (i knew it wasn't going to go away i'm just saying i preferred the list style like in origins) and the action-y combat in a sense. i'm worried as well
• i can't really say anything about the characters, since i usually become more interested in characters when i learn more about them in game. even if i do really like them at first impression, i still stay wary because who knows, i might end up disliking them once i actually play the game. so yes i hope the characters are interesting, i just don't know if they are or are not until i learn more about them in-game
• yeah, i understand the wariness around buying from a developer after they have disappointed you once or twice or more. i hope that inquisition isn't rushed (which is why news of the delay worried me a bit) and that they are able to deliver
• well, i don't know what "ghost boy with  serious puberty problems" or "vamp kids " means lol ... wait, are you talking about cole? i don't like some parts of his design that much either but i don't really care about how he looks right now