50 réponses à ce sujet

[renfrees]

It all comes down to personal tastes. You didn't like DAII combat - I did, in comparison to clumsy one of DAO. You didn't like to not have the 'ultimate last word' on the matter (despite this occurrence being only one of the possible outcomes) - I did. That's how life is, even Gods don't control everything. You thought DAII characters were bland and badly written - I found most of them very enticing and interesting, and I hope the same happens with DAI.

 

Why don't you simply say - me and my friends hate DAII. Raise your hands who's with me!

Without putting a wall of text.

 

DAII's story was different from usual epic sagas, that give refuge to the players wanting to escape the harsh reality and 'be in control' at least in game. The only qualm I had about it, that it was rushed due to time constraints. That, and reused environments. Other than that, the game was very good. IMHO.

[KC_Prototype]

I have no concerns about the game so I will just wait till the game releases and enjoy it from there.

[Lucky Thirteen]

1. If Bioware was truly targeting a teen audience, the game wouldn't be rated M. It would be rated T. Honestly I think anyone that says that Dragon Age is getting too much like Twilight is because they sense that the series is targeted more at a female fan base than most games. Too many people think anything targeted at the female half is inherently horrible. Twilight falls under horrible fantasy targeted at females. I personally do not like Twilight because it is generally bad, horribly written and with shallow characters.  And though I do think Anders was very over dramatic and Fenris very broody and they sparkled/glowed to an extent and  there are a few questionable instances in their romances, they're not standing in Hawke's window at night watching her sleep and will step aside if Hawke dumps them. 

 

I think Dragon Age leans more towards Game of Thrones, with an equal amount of pissing off fans but it's too terrified to show full on boobies. 

 

2. I'm one of those people that loved DA2, hated DA:O, and think you shouldn't have complete control of everything. Especially what happens in the main plot. At times there needs to be things that are beyond player control, otherwise the a story gets dull.

 

Likewise, I loved KOTOR2, didn't like KOTOR1 so much. KOTOR1 felt like a typical star wars story besides that big old twist, and KOTOR2 was atypical Star Wars story that took a critical eye of Star Wars as well as Bioware tropes. TOR, was pretty meh for me in the end, but mostly because I am really not an MMO person. The supporting characters in TOR suffer the most because of the MMO, because for a lot of them you miss out of their development because you can't join them on their side quests. Frankly, I'd rather Obsidian do KOTOR3 instead of Bioware.

 

I really didn't like ME3's story, I felt it relied too much on shock value than actually story and tried to do too much bad symbolism because someone felt they were a brilliant, creative artist.  ME3 to me, actually did take away way too much control from the player. I mean, they took out the middle option, what the hell? You could only respond to things from two extremes. ME1 gave too much control, but ME2 had a nice balance. DA:O gave too much control (though not nearly as much as ME1), but DA:2 had a nice balance that was a bit more interesting than ME2.

 

I'm more confident in DAI simply because it is a different writing team from the Mass Effect series and again, I loved DA2. I just hope the fan hate for DA2 doesn't effect their writing in a terrible way.

 

Please note, a lot of people that hate games like DA2 and KOTOR2, tend to harp a lot on the firsts of everything Bioware being the best experience ever. DA:O, ME1, Jade Empire, Baldur's Gate 1, and Neverwinters Night 1. They tend to cry over nostalgia and they'll probably hate everything put out after the original of anything Bioware makes.  I predict that If they did a Jade Empire 2, these very same people would hate Bioware for it even though they've demanded it for ages because it won't be like the original.  I'm sorry, but once that cherry is popped, it's not coming back. Please move on.

[frylock23]

That's not entirely true. While I did love ME1 a lot, I enjoyed ME3 almost as much, but it was killed by its horrible, gawd awful ending. Basically, they managed to undo almost all the good things they'd done. It took me almost two years after completing the game on my first playthrough before I'd even venture past the London FOB again, even WITH the EC because the ending was that much of a violation of what I'd come to expect from the series.

 

DA2 was nowhere near that bad. In fact, I enjoyed DA2 for what it was. It was just that it was linear enough that I got very little replay value out of it. There was not enough latitude for my choices for me to be driven to play it over and over to see what little things would change. I can only play what feels like the exact same story so many times before I get bored of it.

[Eveangaline]

 

Consensual reaction to these lines was that they were incredibly cheesy and cheap;

 

Where did you get this? The complaints I saw were mostly about the grammar, and most of the complainers admitted that since they're likely direct quotes the characters say, grammar isn't that big a deal, since people often have incorrect grammar while speaking.

 

 

nd that ghost boy with "i have serious puberty problems, also, vamp kids <3" face are the voices of concern I have heard dominating some hobby communities or gatherings I have been in outside of Bioware forums.

 

Is it really inquisitions fault that some people don't read the books?

 

Seriously Cole is mentally childlike and not a romance, he has no puberty problems because he is a spirit/demon thing that made a body based on a dead kid, he is not capable of puberty. Anyone assuming he's twilight-like is just...well, dumb. Maybe you shouldn't over-react to the opinions of dumb people?

[Lucky Thirteen]

That's not entirely true. While I did love ME1 a lot, I enjoyed ME3 almost as much, but it was killed by its horrible, gawd awful ending. Basically, they managed to undo almost all the good things they'd done. It took me almost two years after completing the game on my first playthrough before I'd even venture past the London FOB again, even WITH the EC because the ending was that much of a violation of what I'd come to expect from the series.

 

DA2 was nowhere near that bad. In fact, I enjoyed DA2 for what it was. It was just that it was linear enough that I got very little replay value out of it. There was not enough latitude for my choices for me to be driven to play it over and over to see what little things would change. I can only play what feels like the exact same story so many times before I get bored of it.

 

That's how I feel about ME3 the entirety of ME3. I try to go say hi to James Vega the first time and my options are to flirt with him or act like a completely, utter ******, but no option 'I'd just like to get to know who I'm working with." There was only one time I recall having a option that didn't go to the two extremes of paragon or renegade, and it has to be when Liara brings the stupid box thing. Despite my experiments with treating her like crap for ME1 and ME2, she still thinks Shepard is the best thing since sliced bread. 

 

I still haven't played the EC because I always stop about the Cerberus Coup. I just get so frustrated with the character limitations of Shepard and the general shock value focus. I mean, you walk down the hallway of the "peaceful citadel" and hear a story about children's faces being melted off or the brutal killing of a girl for crying over a broken arm. The game is just absolutely miserable and exhausting. Someone at Bioware was just masturbating way too hard all over romanticized, shocking war stories.

[SurelyForth]

I will never understand people flailing about the quotes, especially since those images aren't trying to sell the story but just give us an idea of what each character is like. Not only is it hard to pull a single, representative line that can be understood with zero context (not even a voice for most of them), but it's doubly so to pull a single, representative line that can be understood with zero context that doesn't mislead or spoil other game content. Plus, given the number of people who refused to acknowledge the difference between formal and colloquial language, I tend to think most of the criticism tends to arise from those who are coming to the marketing with the intent of being hypercritical and dismissive of pretty much everything BW does at this point.

 

That this particular complaint comes from someone who also broke out the old Twilight comparison makes me feel like this conversation was started in poor faith. Not only is there a way more obvious influence at play here (*cough* Joss Whedon *cough*), but evoking Twilight is all but coming out and saying "we're afraid that this was written to appeal to giiiiiirls" especially when the opening remarks are deliberately aimed at not women.

 

 

 

[Storm King]

*shrugs* I liked DA 2; the environments were tedious but I loved Isabela and Varric as characters and they made the game for me, plus the story up to Act 3 I guess was great. Regarding DA:I and your worries about insubordination and whatnot, I don't think the companions are good examples; they're primarily freelancers, assorted warriors and specialists helping you out to stop this apocalyptic event not to secure the future of the Inquisition; try imagining them as your Sherlock to your Inspector Lestrade in some ways I guess. Your dedicated soldiers and advisers are the ones actually there to help the inquisition so insubordination among them might be an issue but there's been no evidence of this as of yet (aside from Leliana and it has been mentioned that you can impose repercussions for her doing that).
Character wise, we simply don't know enough to judge so quickly; thinking back on the previous two games, without playing them, some of the characters would seem rather boring without knowing more. For example, Leliana in DA:O, a cloistered sister with a hidden past; it doesn't scream of uniqueness. Same with Morrigan; a Wilds Witch with her own secret motives; also not very interesting sounding. Alistair, many peoples favorite character, doesn't sound interesting when you describe him in a short blurb; a Templar with a powerful secret and quick wit. Before spouting your fears about lack of character depth, remember that a short blurb doesn't serve to illuminate these characters. Besides, if there's one thing Bioware does well, its characters.
Gameplay wise, I don't particularly care to be honest, the story is more important to me and I'll happily play through mediocre gameplay to experience a well written story and interact with interesting characters.

[SofaJockey]

...the game is not released yet, and we don't really have a lot of info on our hands;

 

 

This.

 

Marketing is marketing, character teases are designed to pique casual interest, not to be deep and meaningful to the intense fanbase.

 

Leliana's behaviour is not seen in context - it is a deliberate tease that will be explained or paid off in the game.

 

Dragon Age II had its limitations and repetitions but to 'hate it' seems an extreme reaction.

 

BioWare don't really have a fan responsibility because people will disagree on just about anything.

 

So their best course of action is to stick with their vision of the best game they can make.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lady Nuggins]

- Companion reveals usually came with some kind of an advertisement poster, which included the characters portrait, and a single line of monologue, to give an idea about their personalities. Consensual reaction to these lines was that they were incredibly cheesy and cheap; leading to inevitable comparisons with lines from Baldur's Gate series, the Witcher series, Arcanum and so on. There is a terrifying amount of speculation that suggests Bioware might be targeting a less mature audience, Twilight youth in trash talk.

 

Really?  Because I fail to see how they're so different from how Origins introduced each of the Wardens.  In fact, I'd say it's a pretty standard RPG trope.

 

 

Maybe you should explain where you got "Twilight" from that, because I am clearly not as familiar with Twilight's marketing methods as you are.

[Anarya]

These specific concerns seem to me like grasping for anything to confirm a bias of "Bioware is terrible now". There simply is not enough information or context to make judgments about the story content yet. As for the marketing...uhh, what? 

[Catche Jagger]

I think Inquisition is looking good so far. Nothing so far appears to be so problematic that it couldn't be explained in the context of the game.

It is reasonable to want to temper your expectations after the ending of Mass Effect 3 brought down the rest of the experience and DA2 failed to meet the expectations set by DAO, but as others have said different teams works on the DA and ME series and a Inquisition has gotten a much longer development time than DA2 which will hopefully help to polish the experience.

On the subject of the character blurbs, judging the maturity of the game by a single line of dialogue which was chosen solely to generate hype while still maintaining some mystery is not the best method to use. The better pieces of dialogue will be left for us to find in the game like they usually are.

Lastly, on the issue of the demo, it has been stated that the events of the demo were the results of previous choices, and therefore, the events would probably play out with little player agency as said agency would have already affected the events to reach this point. We were also only presented with one set of choices, and we don't know what the other options would result in.

[CapivaRasgor]

These specific concerns seem to me like grasping for anything to confirm a bias of "Bioware is terrible now". There simply is not enough information or context to make judgments about the story content yet. As for the marketing...uhh, what? 

 

This. Enough said.

[CrimsonN7]

"Hey, gentlemen..."

 

Oh, sorry, wrong thread for me then.

 

 

 

 

I'm still cautiously optimistic for this game, the Inquisitor looks like the most interesting main protagonist we have seen in any DA game.

[TheLittleBird]

That scene always bothered me. Having never read the Lord of the Rings novels, I have no idea if that is how Tolkien actually rendered the death of the Witch King. It seemed ... implausible to say the least, in my opinion. He is the chief servant of Sauron, equal to Gandalf in power, but somehow manages to be taken down by a sword to the face. The only explanation we receive: the Witch-king was destined to be killed by someone without a penis, and Eowyn fit the bill.

He was actually killed by a Hobbit and a woman, not just Eowyn. Merry stabbed him in the back with a Dunedain dagger (which had powerful enchantments on it) allowing for Eowyn to stab him in the face. I do believe that is exactly how Tolkien portrayed it, and also exactly what the movies did.

Anyway, let's get back on topic.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

sigh... i really try to separate the product from it's marketing (which is usually a bit off to me - do those people play games at all? or just are used to advertising action/b-movies or something? it doesn't make me want to buy game more, i just feel embarrassed i'm playing games)

 

as for DA:I... i share your concerns. character blurbs do seem cheesy - a DA2 template shows (here is a trope, let's do something to make that trope more cliche/uninteresting/boring; good, move to next char and repeat). i hope it's only superficial marketing element and will have no impact on the actual game.

 

decision making - it's always a tricky subject as cRPGs cannot offer the freedom tabletops do. i understand devs to use easiest approach to cheat this (emotion wheel and other minor adjustments should do the trick). i hope it will offer a choice, not the 'say her skirt is not pretty using 3 different euphemisms' - kind.

[TheLittleBird]

You mean moaning and complaining about games that were made 3-4 years ago? Okay.

Heh.
Well, I suppose there is some sense in what the OP is trying to say, even though a lot of the arguments made there are not that great and there clearly is a bit of ignorance concerning the BSN's general consensus on the game.

But it doesn't hurt to be concerned about Inquisition. If not because of the way previous BioWare games have been received, you can always worry about the new directions BioWare is taking this game. For example, the focus on a (semi-)open world can have people question the quality of other parts of the game, even though I am not one of those people and have full faith in BioWare delivering on their storytelling.

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

It actually falls back to the character reveals and footages. The way the Inquisiton is represented is that the continent is in some serious ****; and it needs a highly militarized force of specialist personnel to put everyone and everything back in line.

The relationship between Inquisitor and his companions from what little we have seen didn't really fit the theme of officer and commander. Again, emphasis on "what little". It might be hated around the official forums, but the line "lol bioware" is used to adress such situtations in the story content in reviews and commentaries, it is not a trash slang; just points out some incostincensies on the story settings of ME-3 and DA-2. We are just having a little hard time not to find "lol bioware" in the poorly represented aspects of the product so far; as the pattern of the last few years was so disapponting, a single flaw in marketing leads to chit-chat on concerns about the modern rpg world settings when a conversation on Bioware is ignited.

In the link posted in this thread, David Gaider commented on possible repercussions to insubordinance against the Inquisitor(Leliana in particular); leading me to believe we may not be seeing the incredibly poor setting of Kirkwall again. May be. In any case, if there is indeed a decision to role play as an actual military commander fit to lead forces through such a chaotic atmosphere; and not a guy that does R&R during an extraterrestrial invasion, the game has my vote.

ugh no I dont want my 9 party members to treat me like their commander, thats what my troops are for. I had enough of that kind of relationship from the ME games.

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

Also Coles arc in DAI isnt about freaking ghost puberty

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

I guess I'm just not one of those people. If the video game sucks, I'm out $60. No biggie. With the way people agonize over Bioware's games, you would think they were contemplating whether to get a heart transplant.

moneys tight for most :L

[Innsmouth Dweller]

I guess I'm just not one of those people. If the video game sucks, I'm out $60. No biggie. With the way people agonize over Bioware's games, you would think they were contemplating whether to get a heart transplant.

i'ts not about the money. it's about studio well respected for their past creations and high expectations not being met. whether the expectations are too high or devs never intended to please such demanding crowd is another story.

 

and it might be as well heart breaking story. there.