1680 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Nothing is established in the games until it's established in the games. It was never established that people could come back from the dead until they made it happen in ME2. It was never established that there could be a hologram of a dead kid controlling the Reapers from inside the Citadel until they made it happen in ME3. They can do whatever they want. They could set ME4 in Thedas if they wanted to.

And it is established in the games that our cycle doesn't have the tech to make the journey to Andromeda. One of the dozen dwarf galaxies around us perhaps, but not Andromeda. 

 

And yes, Bioware can do whatever they want. That doesn't mean they can't be called out on it. 

 

Now, let's go with the fastest ship available to us, namely Reapers, with an astounding 30 light years per day. At this speed, it would take about 230 years to get to Andromeda, assuming no stops and a direct trajectory. Under those same conditions, it would take less than 3 years to get to Canis Major Dwarf. Which... isn't good. If our hypothetical Ark wanted to escape the Reapers for good, Canis does not seem like a very good option. Admittedly, there are others, but two or three centuries to Andromeda actually sounds pretty reasonable.

Sounds as not good as going to Andromeda. If we can get there, the Reapers can get there. 

[7thGate]

We are killing ourselves now. We fight wars over made up causes, we poison our water and air, we murder each other in the streets, we make nuclear weapons because other people have nuclear weapons. Humanity is a ticking time bomb.

 

We kill ourselves all the time, yes, but very slowly and not nearly as well as nature does.  The only one of those remotely threatening to humanity as a whole are the nuclear weapons. We're currently growing the population by 80 million people/year, we could fight a world war II every year and stay stable as a species.  Large scale nuclear war might possibly get us, or a very bad  natural disaster, but we're not dying out from war, homicide or pollution.  While these are very significant for individuals or specific population groups, they have trivial impacts on the scale of the species as a whole.

 

It would be even more absurd for us to somehow go extinct across a galaxy in 600 years, at least you could craft a viable scenario involving all the nuclear power shooting at each other that could maybe lead to our extinction on earth (although even that is questionable), but how would you go about killing everyone in a galaxy?  You need something on the scale of the Reapers to pull that off.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well after the Reaper War, the Milky Way is devastated. And depending on your choices as Shepherd, either synthetics are destroyed, controlled, synthesis occurs, or the harvest is completed. So the time frame for the "Ark" theory would be during the Reaper War or the beginnings of the invasion. After the war, the technology would be too devastated to even attempt a galactic journey. I don't know how true this is but I remember hearing somewhere that there was an N7 team responsible for scouting new systems, I may have heard this as a rumor, in one of the games or in the comics but I can't be certain, but who's to say that an N7 scouting team found a way to the Andromeda through scouting? Again, keep in mind this is a fantasy, most of the facts will be learned along the way, no one but the writers and devs have all the answers. And you don't need all the facts in a fantasy world, did you have all the facts the first time you played Dragon Age? No, you learned as you went along...

Not according to the Extended Cut slides. Those show the galaxy rebuilding in years or decades depending on the ending. 

 

We had all the facts of what the societies were capable of, yes. Doing this would be like "Oh, Ferelden created an airplane in secret and had it since Origins." 

[Steppenwolf]

We kill ourselves all the time, yes, but very slowly and not nearly as well as nature does.  The only one of those remotely threatening to humanity as a whole are the nuclear weapons. We're currently growing the population by 80 million people/year, we could fight a world war II every year and stay stable as a species.  Large scale nuclear war might possibly get us, or a very bad  natural disaster, but we're not dying out from war, homicide or pollution.  While these are very significant for individuals or specific population groups, they have trivial impacts on the scale of the species as a whole.

We're facing mass extinction events in our oceans in the very near future, widespread flooding in the next few hundred years, and a major shortage of potable water all over the world. Half of the Earth's population could be displaced int he next 200 years. Being extinct in 600-700 years is not outside the realm of possibility.
 

It would be even more absurd for us to somehow go extinct across a galaxy in 600 years, at least you could craft a viable scenario involving all the nuclear power shooting at each other that could maybe lead to our extinction on earth (although even that is questionable), but how would you go about killing everyone in a galaxy?  You need something on the scale of the Reapers to pull that off.

Refuse ending.

[Gwydden]

Sounds as not good as going to Andromeda. If we can get there, the Reapers can get there. 

They don't have any reason to do so. They were created to police the Milky Way. By the time they realize some people are gone (if they even realize it) I reckon they'd be too far for them to bother.

 

Not according to the Extended Cut slides. Those show the galaxy rebuilding in years or decades depending on the ending. 

 

We had all the facts of what the societies were capable of, yes. Doing this would be like "Oh, Ferelden created an airplane in secret and had it since Origins." 

Not really.

 

The FTL technology? It's established. Stasis technology? Established. A drive that can keep a ship moving for a couple of centuries? Pretty much established, and the minor issues are easily handwaved.

 

Just out of curiosity, why exactly is it about the Milky Way that makes it so unleavable to you?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They don't have any reason to do so. They were created to police the Milky Way. By the time they realize some people are gone (if they even realize it) I'd reckon they'd be too far for them to bother.

No. According to Leviathan the Intelligence/Catalyst was created to preserve life. There is never any mention of just the Milky Way. 

And I was more referring to the fact that eventually the Reapers would reap Leviathan so running bought them a few centuries or maybe millennium before they are caught in the same situation. 

 

 

Not really.

 

The FTL technology? It's established. Stasis technology? Established. A drive that can keep a ship moving for a couple of centuries? Pretty much established, and the minor issues are easily handwaved.

 

Just out of curiosity, why exactly is it about the Milky Way that makes it so unleavable to you?

Our FTL drives have to discharge every once in a while or else vaporize the crew. To do that, they land on a terrestrial planet or use the atmosphere of a jovial planet. There is no way of knowing where any exoplanets are in the Dark Space between Milky Way and Andromeda, and doing that hundreds or thousands of times, so the crew wouldn't survive. And that's only the most pressing issue. 

 

The Milky Way? Nothing. I've said several times if this ark leaves after the Reaper War thus our cycle cracked the secrets to how the Reapers avoid the problems of such a trip I'd tolerate it. But before or during the Reaper War? That's throwing away the established lore/setting/technology/etc. 

[Steppenwolf]

Why won't any of you guys address the possibility of a wormhole? A Mass Effect dev posted a picture of a wormhole and hinted at it being part of the game. You're looking for any excuse to say it's stupid and to keep the games in the Milky Way so you try to make it about lore while ignoring an obvious clue.

[Gwydden]

No. According to Leviathan the Intelligence/Catalyst was created to preserve life. There is never any mention of just the Milky Way. 

And I was more referring to the fact that eventually the Reapers would reap Leviathan so running bought them a few centuries or maybe millennium before they are caught in the same situation. 

The Reapers could have gone elsewhere in the billions of years they had to do so. They chose not to, quite smartly. As long as they're in the Milky Way, everyone has to play in their field and by their rules. Elsewhere things might not be so easy.

 

Our FTL drives have to discharge every once in a while or else vaporize the crew. To do that, they land on a terrestrial planet or use the atmosphere of a jovial planet. There is no way of knowing where any exoplanets are in the Dark Space between Milky Way and Andromeda, and doing that hundreds or thousands of times, so the crew wouldn't survive. And that's only the most pressing issue. 

 

The Milky Way? Nothing. I've said several times if this ark leaves after the Reaper War thus our cycle cracked the secrets to how the Reapers avoid the problems of such a trip I'd tolerate it. But before or during the Reaper War? That's throwing away the established lore/setting/technology/etc. 

So that's it? Because BioWare never has had any issues handwaving the 'established lore/setting/technology' when it suited them. They've done it so often I'm surprised people still care.

 

Why won't any of you guys address the possibility of a wormhole? A Mass Effect dev posted a picture of a wormhole and hinted at it being part of the game. You're looking for any excuse to say it's stupid and to keep the games in the Milky Way so you try to make it about lore while ignoring an obvious clue.

That opens up its own can of worms. Why didn't anyone seem to know about this? If it was a recent discovery, it's pretty darn convenient. If it was kept hidden, then why isn't there more traffic between the two galaxies? How does going to Andromeda rid us of the ending when anyone could very easily go there after the Crucible fired? Who built this wormhole, exactly, and has it been used before? How come the Reapes of all people don't know about it and have gotten around harvesting the neighbors?

 

This all can be explained away, but I don't really find it an 'easier' alternative (storytelling wise) than just going the good old fashioned way.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Reapers could have gone elsewhere in the billions of years they had to do so. They chose not to, quite smartly. As long as they're in the Milky Way, everyone has to play in their field and by their rules. Elsewhere things might not be so easy.

And where does it say they haven't? The 50,000 year cycle can literally be just them going to all the galaxies and dwarf galaxies in the local galactic group. Makes more sense then them just napping for 50,000 years, which even Vigil says is only a hypothesis on his part. Every galaxy in the local galactic group could be playing by their rules, and there atre benefits to it doing so. To name a couple, the people in Andromeda would be no more advanced than our cycle and the galaxy would have Mass Relays, one of the iconic symbol of the franchise. 

 

 

Why won't any of you guys address the possibility of a wormhole? A Mass Effect dev posted a picture of a wormhole and hinted at it being part of the game. You're looking for any excuse to say it's stupid and to keep the games in the Milky Way so you try to make it about lore while ignoring an obvious clue.

I've accepted the use of a wormhole as a possibility, actually. Makes more sense than us magically having technology we didn't in the previous games despite them leaving at the same time. 

 

Though that picture was a rendering of a black hole, not a wormhole. Just saying. 

[Malanek]

 

That opens up its own can of worms. Why didn't anyone seem to know about this? If it was a recent discovery, it's pretty darn convenient. If it was kept hidden, then why isn't there more traffic between the two galaxies? How does going to Andromeda rid us of the ending when anyone could very easily go there after the Crucible fired? Who built this wormhole, exactly, and has it been used before? How come the Reapes of all people don't know about it and have gotten around harvesting the neighbors?

 

This all can be explained away, but I don't really find it an 'easier' alternative (storytelling wise) than just going the good old fashioned way.

I've already done this to death so won't get into a long discussion. In short a wormhole is theoretically possible but requires massive amounts of energy. What releases a huge amount of energy in the ME world? The Crucible. And it just so happens that a large number of mixed forces are congregated in the proximity. So my idea was that a wormhole opens up as the crucible fires, swallows whichever ships the writers want, and then closes again leaving those ships stuck in Andromeda. The trip was completely unintentional.

[dreamgazer]

Why won't any of you guys address the possibility of a wormhole?

 

There's not a whole lot to discuss about a wormhole.  If it happens, it happens.

 

If a wormhole appears just in the nick of time for some secret ark project, that silliness will make finding the Crucible plans on Mars look brilliant in comparison. 

 

Now, If a wild wormhole pulls a bunch of ships into it and spits them out at a random place either in this galaxy or another, that could be rather entertaining.  I've read Malanek's speculation above a few times and think that could be a neat way of handling it, since it would eliminate the "RUN AWAY!" mentality of Noah's Space Ark and have a far more diverse group of character attitudes at their disposal. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I've already done this to death so won't get into a long discussion. In short a wormhole is theoretically possible but requires massive amounts of energy. What releases a huge amount of energy in the ME world? The Crucible. And it just so happens that a large number of mixed forces are congregated in the proximity. So my idea was that a wormhole opens up as the crucible fires, swallows whichever ships the writers want, and then closes again leaving those ships stuck in Andromeda. The trip was completely unintentional.

They could have a Reaper or a few get thrown in as well. Could be a good way to connect the trilogy to the new games by having those few Reapers to deal with as well as the new issues of being in Andromeda. 

[Shermos]

If this leak is correct, whatever gets Pathfinder to Andromeda has to do so reasonably quickly. The idea of a slow journey over hundreds of years or more doesn't sit right with me for a very practical reason. If you set out on a long journey like that, you're likely to find that by the time you get to your destination, people who stayed behind and continued to develop would have found a faster way to travel, beaten you there, and set up their own civilisation. Pathfinder could get to Andromeda and find the survivors of the Reaper War beat them to it, and we'd still have to deal with the ending consequences.

[Gwydden]

And where does it say they haven't? The 50,000 year cycle can literally be just them going to all the galaxies and dwarf galaxies in the local galactic group. Makes more sense then them just napping for 50,000 years, which even Vigil says is only a hypothesis on his part. Every galaxy in the local galactic group could be playing by their rules, and there atre benefits to it doing so. To name a couple, the people in Andromeda would be no more advanced than our cycle and the galaxy would have Mass Relays, one of the iconic symbol of the franchise. 

What says they have? How would the Reapers know whether there is something in Andromeda capable of absolutely wrecking their well laid plans should they ever be reckless enough to disturb it? It's pretty far away.

 

There's not a whole lot to discuss about a wormhole.  If it happens, it happens.

 

If a wormhole appears just in the nick of time for some secret ark project, that silliness will make finding the Crucible plans on Mars look brilliant in comparison. 

 

Now, If a wild wormhole pulls a bunch of ships into it and spits them out at a random place either in this galaxy or another, that could be rather entertaining.  I've read Malanek's speculation above a few times and think that could be a neat way of handling it, since it would eliminate the "RUN AWAY!" mentality of Noah's Space Ark and have a far more diverse group of character attitudes at their disposal. 

A group of stranded people renders concepts like Pathfinder and Arkcon (if at all accurate) rather implausible. There's also the problem (although admittedly it could become an asset if handled correctly) that an erratic wormhole could drop them pretty much anywhere.

 

If this leak is correct, whatever gets Pathfinder to Andromeda has to do so reasonably quickly. The idea of a slow journey over hundreds of years or more doesn't sit right with me for a very practical reason. If you set out on a long journey like that, you're likely to find that by the time you get to your destination, people who stayed behind and continued to develop would have found a faster way to travel, beaten you there, and set up their own civilisation. Pathfinder could get to Andromeda and find the survivors of the Reaper War beat them to it, and we'd still have to deal with the ending consequences.

Unlikely. No one seems to even have attempted to go to Andromeda in almost 3000 years of galactic civilization. There's just no reason to go there. Unless you have an army of homicidal machines hellbent on making every spacefaring species in the galaxy extinct, that is.

 

And technology is at the mercy of the writers. Which is pretty much my whole point.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

What says they have? How would the Reapers know whether there is something in Andromeda capable of absolutely wrecking their well laid plans should they ever be reckless enough to disturb it? It's pretty far away.

There's nothing that outright states it, but there is evidence to support they do and none that says they don't. They have a mandate to preserve life at any cost, they have the capability to go, so why wouldn't they? 

 

It's not far away for them. It's a slighty over 200 year trip for them. They are immortal, so 200 years is a blink of an eye to them. And they know because like the Milky Way they lay the same traps and reap it. There's nothing reckless about it. Leaving Andromeda alone when they could keep the races there down is the reckless action. 

[Sion1138]

... They have a mandate to preserve life at any cost, ...

 

I'm still kind of taken aback upon being reminded of that.

 

I mean, what the hell...

[The Elder King]

I'm still kind of taken aback upon being reminded of that.
 
I mean, what the hell...

Seems logical to me. Destroying every form of advanced organic Except those needed to create a Reaper is best way to preserve life .

[Gwydden]

There's nothing that outright states it, but there is evidence to support they do and none that says they don't. They have a mandate to preserve life at any cost, they have the capability to go, so why wouldn't they? 

 

It's not far away for them. It's a slighty over 200 year trip for them. They are immortal, so 200 years is a blink of an eye to them. And they know because like the Milky Way they lay the same traps and reap it. There's nothing reckless about it. Leaving Andromeda alone when they could keep the races there down is the reckless action. 

This might be more of a pet peeve of mine, but 'there's no reason why not' is not evidence for the answer being yes.

 

And let me put it in this way. The Reapers have cleared out the Leviathans (they think). Then they peek into Andromeda and discover it is dominated by a civilization (or a predatory species not unlike the Reapers themselves)  that's even more advanced than they are. Why would they risk attacking them when they could suffer a whooping defeat that will prevent them from fulfilling their purpose? Why even risk drawing the attention of such a civilization when interaction between the Milky Way and Andromeda is (as far as they know) nonexistent?

 

That the Reapers could defeat the Leviathans doesn't mean they can do the same with everything in the universe. Also, the Reapers could very well face their own problems with intergalactic travel, especially seeing as their capacity for advancement seems to be zero and they just scavenge technology from other species.

 

Seems logical to me. Destroying every form of advanced organic Except those needed to create a Reaper is best way to preserve life  .

That seems implausible until you remember 'advanced' organics have an unparalleled capacity for self-destruction, based on evidence here on Earth. From that perspective, the creation of the Reapers backfiring actually seems reasonable 

[Malanek]

 

 

A group of stranded people renders concepts like Pathfinder and Arkcon (if at all accurate) rather implausible. There's also the problem (although admittedly it could become an asset if handled correctly) that an erratic wormhole could drop them pretty much anywhere.

Could you explain what you mean by implausible? You don't even know what they mean. It could be referring to the name of the program looking to get home. Even if Ark theory is correct (and I do believe there is high chance it is, I just think there is a lot of unneeded handwaving to run with it), Pathfinder (and A.R.K.C.O.N) is still probably referring to a ship or program once you have arrived in Andromeda. I doubt the next ME game will be about the actual voyage to Andromeda, but rather start once you are there.

[Steppenwolf]

That opens up its own can of worms. Why didn't anyone seem to know about this?

To keep the Reapers from knowing about it.

If it was a recent discovery, it's pretty darn convenient. If it was kept hidden, then why isn't there more traffic between the two galaxies?

...because it was kept hidden. How is that not self-explanatory?

How does going to Andromeda rid us of the ending when anyone could very easily go there after the Crucible fired?

Because wormholes don't stay open forever.

Who built this wormhole, exactly, and has it been used before? How come the Reapes of all people don't know about it and have gotten around harvesting the neighbors?

How are these arguments against a wormhole? These are plot points.
 

This all can be explained away, but I don't really find it an 'easier' alternative (storytelling wise) than just going the good old fashioned way.

You mean aside from it taking hundreds or thousands of years using Reaper-level tech? A wormhole is a perfect plot tool.

[Steppenwolf]

I've accepted the use of a wormhole as a possibility, actually. Makes more sense than us magically having technology we didn't in the previous games despite them leaving at the same time.

Magical new technology has been introduced at every turn in this series.
 

Though that picture was a rendering of a black hole, not a wormhole. Just saying.

How the hell would you know? We don't have photographs of either and how would a blackhole be the future of the series? The Mass Effect series will be crushed into nothingness?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How the hell would you know? We don't have photographs of either and how would a blackhole be the future of the series? The Mass Effect series will be crushed into nothingness?

Because it's on this site talking about black holes. 

http://www.techentic...ive-black-hole/

 

Also, we do have photographs of black holes. Here's one. 

Spoiler

 

Because they thought the image looked neat so used it, I suppose. And technically it is theoretically possible that a black hole can become a one-way wormhole if it connects to a theoretical object known as a white hole, with the black hole being the entrance and the white hole being the exit. 

[AlanC9]

If the wormhole to Andromeda is one-way, there aren't any issues with timing. They could have known about it for decades or centuries, but until QEC technology was developed the wormhole would have had no practical use.

[ZipZap2000]

There's nothing that outright states it, but there is evidence to support they do and none that says they don't. They have a mandate to preserve life at any cost, they have the capability to go, so why wouldn't they? 

 

It's not far away for them. It's a slighty over 200 year trip for them. They are immortal, so 200 years is a blink of an eye to them. And they know because like the Milky Way they lay the same traps and reap it. There's nothing reckless about it. Leaving Andromeda alone when they could keep the races there down is the reckless action. 

Iv'e been saying that for a while now. The citadel is a giant mass relay, the reapers travel both ways so there is clearly another one somewhere and we never did see the reapers take the citadel. Who's to say we didn't use it?