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[Das Tentakel]

Actually, the Qunari were always planned to be horned, the only reason Sten wasn't was because they didn't have a way to make it work with helmets.

 

I am aware of that, but we don't really know how this developed from the original reptilian/draconian concepts back in 2004.

Here's a snippet from an article in IGN, back in 2004:

 

Although they don't have a name as of yet, or at least BioWare wasn't saying what the name was, the characters sport horns on their heads and look rather lizard (or perhaps dragon) like.

 

(Source: http://www.ign.com/a...2004-dragon-age ).

 

They basically sound somewhat like Dragonlance's Draconians. Which, if that's the case, might also explain why they got 'de-draconified'. Copyright battles can get pretty unpleasant. I can well imagine a gradual development from 1) quasi-draconians, to 2) horned humans, to 3) big humans, leading to 3) horned big humans (the current form).

 

The Ogres themselves could have been quite separate originally, with their DA:O form somewhat influencing the DA2 Qunari redesign. One thing that is noticeable is that whereas the Darkspawn that are derived from Elves, Humans and Dwarves are more or less the size of their 'mother race', the Ogres are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay oversized compared to 'proper' Kossith/Qunari.

[Heimdall]

I am aware of that, but we don't really know how this developed from the original reptilian/draconian concepts back in 2004.

Here's a snippet from an article in IGN, back in 2004:

 

 

 

 

(Source: http://www.ign.com/a...2004-dragon-age ).

 

They basically sound somewhat like Dragonlance's Draconians. Which, if that's the case, might also explain why they got 'de-draconified'. Copyright battles can get pretty unpleasant. I can well imagine a gradual development from 1) quasi-draconians, to 2) horned humans, to 3) big humans, leading to 3) horned big humans (the current form).

 

The Ogres themselves could have been quite separate originally, with their DA:O form somewhat influencing the DA2 Qunari redesign. One thing that is noticeable is that whereas the Darkspawn that are derived from Elves, Humans and Dwarves are more or less the size of their 'mother race', the Ogres are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay oversized compared to 'proper' Kossith/Qunari.

Hm, didn't know about that, I only really found out about Dragon Age: Origins a few months from release myself.

 

I imagine Ogres originally spawned from a desire to give DA's orc-equivalents a troll-equivalent to bolster their threat, whether or not they were necessarily connected to the Qunari/Kossith originally.  It depends on when exactly they came up with the idea for broodmothers, but those draconian roots for the Qunari might be reflected in the original purple skin tone they chose for the Ogres unlike other darkspawn(All DAO Dragons having purple skin).

[Das Tentakel]

Hm, didn't know about that, I only really found out about Dragon Age: Origins a few months from release myself.
 
I imagine Ogres originally spawned from a desire to give DA's orc-equivalents a troll-equivalent to bolster their threat, whether or not they were necessarily connected to the Qunari/Kossith originally.  It depends on when exactly they came up with the idea for broodmothers, but those draconian roots for the Qunari might be reflected in the original purple skin tone they chose for the Ogres unlike other darkspawn(All DAO Dragons having purple skin).

 
Functionally Ogres are the equivalent of Trolls (in the LotR movies' sense of a big bad opponent), the other Darkspawn Orcs. Good observation about the purple, but DA:O had lots of it (as well as brown, blue etc.), including several indoor locations. Somebody at BioWare must have loved the colour...
Looking at it now DA:O had a pretty weird colour scheme...
 


Regarding the Kossith/Qunari's original 'Draconic' concept, wasn't there some talk about a 'draconic' origin of the race, meaning within the setting as it now is?

If that's the case, then THAT might be a real vestige of the original Kossith/Qunari concept.

[Heimdall]

 
Functionally Ogres are the equivalent of Trolls (in the LotR movies' sense of a big bad opponent), the other Darkspawn Orcs. Good observation about the purple, but DA:O had lots of it (as well as brown, blue etc.), including several indoor locations. Somebody at BioWare must have loved the colour...
Looking at it now DA:O had a pretty weird colour scheme...

 

*snip* 

Regarding the Kossith/Qunari's original 'Draconic' concept, wasn't there some talk about a 'draconic' origin of the race, meaning within the setting as it now is?

If that's the case, then THAT might be a real vestige of the original Kossith/Qunari concept.

It was a popular color in DAO, that's true, Abominations were purple, some spiders were purplish, etc.  Still, they stand out amongst the other Darkspawn for that color so I still think there might be something to it.

 

In the comics, a Tevinter Magister using Dragon fire against the Qunari said something like: "Dragon fire, it could have been their birthright, but now it burns them." *paraphrasing* and the new Arishock indicated some knowledge of Old Gods and ancient Dragons.

 

So there definitely seems to be a connection.

[Das Tentakel]

It was a popular color in DAO, that's true, Abominations were purple, some spiders were purplish, etc.  Still, they stand out amongst the other Darkspawn for that color so I still think there might be something to it.

Mweh, I think it's really simple: In purple, they're stunning 

 

[leminzplz]

I would temper my awe. The few travel times (DA:O, WoT) that we have can be used to calculate that Ferelden is about the size of Puerto Rico, or even a bit smaller. If we use that as a basis, Orlais would be smaller than some of France's historical regions.

I don't actually think Bio perceives Thedas as being that small, but they're awfully fuzzy about actual distances and thus the 'real' size of their world.

Wow...that's...damn. .-.
My whole world feels like it's just turned upside down XD

[Former_Fiend]

It was a popular color in DAO, that's true, Abominations were purple, some spiders were purplish, etc.  Still, they stand out amongst the other Darkspawn for that color so I still think there might be something to it.

 

In the comics, a Tevinter Magister using Dragon fire against the Qunari said something like: "Dragon fire, it could have been their birthright, but now it burns them." *paraphrasing* and the new Arishock indicated some knowledge of Old Gods and ancient Dragons.

 

So there definitely seems to be a connection.

 

I'm given to understand said magister was actually refering to the Therins with that line, as the Therin bloodline carries dragon blood in it due to Calenhad being a particularly powerful reaver.

[Gorguz]

IIRC it was known back in origins that hurlock-> humans, genlock-> dwarves, shrieks-> elves and ogres->kossith. Perhaps it was even in the codex. Regarding kossith being in the wild, I agree it's the way they justified ogres existing before the qun. But it's not far fetched, qunari fleet is the strongest we know, it wouldn't be strange if kossith had a good navigation culture and technology. Also Sten says qunari know that the world is a sphere. What if the koncari kossith left the kossith homeland traveling north and landed in fereldan coming from south? That would be hilarious.

[Das Tentakel]

IIRC it was known back in origins that hurlock-> humans, genlock-> dwarves, shrieks-> elves and ogres->kossith. Perhaps it was even in the codex. Regarding kossith being in the wild, I agree it's the way they justified ogres existing before the qun. But it's not far fetched, qunari fleet is the strongest we know, it wouldn't be strange if kossith had a good navigation culture and technology. Also Sten says qunari know that the world is a sphere. What if the koncari kossith left the kossith homeland traveling north and landed in fereldan coming from south? That would be hilarious.

 
It's not in the Codex. If you look at the Dragon Age wiki (http://dragonage.wik...gres_and_Qunari), a discussion about the Qunari/Ogre connection took place in september 2010; in august 2010 Bio released the first cinematic trailer for Dragon Age II, which also showed the new-style horned Qunari. 
Before, the connection between Qunari and Ogres effectively did not exist, regardless of what may or may not have existed in Bio's notes.
 
Ogres are originally just trolls with another name; the original Codex description shows that clearly:
 

Grey Warden lore urges caution when slaying an ogre. Unless it is ensured that they have received a major wound to the head or the heart, it is possible that they are lying dormant and will regenerate to full health within a matter of minutes. During a Blight, most Grey Wardens recommend burning all darkspawn to ashes... "dead" ogres in particular.

Not that this matters in the context of 'current' lore. NOW, Ogres are of Qunari origin, they are here, so there must have been Qunari women. When, where and how is relatively unimportant.

[Heimdall]

I'm given to understand said magister was actually refering to the Therins with that line, as the Therin bloodline carries dragon blood in it due to Calenhad being a particularly powerful reaver.

I doubt it, as that magister was noting "now it burns them" as he literally melted the skin off Qunari warriors attacking him.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

That's an interesting if minor point. The Ogre predates the current form of the Qunari, and it’s anyone’s guess whether, originally, the Ogre was even conceived as a ‘tainted’ form of the Qunari, or just as, well, an Ogre. Maybe as simple as a tainted form of an Ogre-like species?

Things get rewritten and reorganised ‘behind the screen’ all the time, so I wouldn’t be surprised if originally there was no connection. However, once it became convenient, it became so, and they had to explain the presence of Ogres on the mainland of Thedas.

It might even be the case that the design of the Ogre influenced the final design of the Kossith/Qunari, rather than the other way around? If I remember correctly, while the relevant concept art is not available to us, early reports on Dragon Age suggest that what became the Qunari were initially conceived rather differently, as some kind of reptilian (draconian?) humanoid.


I would temper my awe. The few travel times (DA:O, WoT) that we have can be used to calculate that Ferelden is about the size of Puerto Rico, or even a bit smaller. If we use that as a basis, Orlais would be smaller than some of France's historical regions.
I don't actually think Bio perceives Thedas as being that small, but they're awfully fuzzy about actual distances and thus the 'real' size of their world.


Not much, wasn't there something about the ancestors of the Rivaini (or at least the 'non-white' part of them) coming from somewhere beyond the Donark forest?

Yeah Gaider mentioned that they come from the islands in the Boeric Ocean. The idea that it is specifically where the darker skinned humans trace their lineage is an assumption on my part, though given that most humans in Thedas were fair skinned.

[Gorguz]

 It's not in the Codex.

It is in the codex, as I said. The file about the Broodmothers in the very first game, you get it as soon as you defeat the broodmother in the Dead Trenches. Kossith were supposed to have horns, and their design influenced the appearance of ogres, not the other way around. There isn't a fifth humanoid species from which ogres were supposed to come.

Sorry for the necrobump.