40 réponses à ce sujet

[ImaginaryMatter]

Nah, Ashley and Kaidan were my mouthpiece on Horizon, saying all the things I wanted to say about the horrid railroading and being forced to join Cerberus. I remember cheering when I played that scene because they were voicing my frustrations, joining Cerberus was stupid and the reason for doing so utterly non sensical.

If hundreds of thousands/millions of individuals go missing no race is going to do nothing, especially with the inevitable massive outcry on Earth from loved ones of the missing colonists and the media. The whole premise is stupid.

 

They certainly did carry the Alliance/Council is overly apathetic shtick a little (a lot) too far.

 

I feel like the writing team should have stepped back once they realized the amount of contrivance, railroading, and resetting it took to make ME2 move as a story.

[Barquiel]

I never romanced Ashley/Kaidan...and I understand that they are suspicious.
 
However, my problem with Ashley's/Kaidan's reaction on Horizon is that there's hard evidence to back up what Shepard's claiming. Anderson sent the VS to Horizon to investigate whether or not Cerberus is involved in the colony disappearances. So, why not investigate what's going on with a non-hostile Shepard (instead of calling Shepard a traitor and storming off)? There are some really basic questions they should have asked to give the alliance and the council an idea what Shepard and Cerberus are up to. For example, I'm pretty sure the Alliance would have wanted to know about Mordin's countermeasure. Or maybe scans of the collector ship.

[Han Shot First]

If you romanced either of these 2 in Mass Effect 1, considering what happens in Mass Effect 2, what made you reignite your relationship with them in Mass Effect 3? I mean they pretty much said they'd pick the Alliance over you every time.

 

While I think the Horizon cameo was badly written, that the VS sticks to their ideals and refuses to follow Shepard so long as he/she is with Cerberus, makes the character more worthy of respect. The VS is neither blindly loyal or willing to compromise who he or she is just because Shepard wills it.

 

Also the VS never said they are choosing the Alliance over Shepard. They are choosing the Alliance over Cerberus. 

 

On a side note the worst parts about the Horizon cameo isn't the Virmire Survivor's dialogue. It is Shepard's dialogue that is the problem. You could have a Shepard who loathes Cerberus as much as Ashley does and is fully planning on abandoning them once the Collectors are dealt with, but Shepard isn't given dialogue to explain his or her case. When Ashley objects to working with Cerberus all Shepard can offer is, "Come on Ash, it will be just like old times."

[DarthLaxian]

My Shepard wasn't happy about joining Cerberus and explained to them that she was only using them to get rid of the Collector threat.

 

but it was bad writing, so I don't hold a Ashley/Kaidan grudge like some people do.

 

Hey,

 

yeah, I don't like the writing either (because - if in a romance - I would think, that the love would smooth over the problems the characters have with Cerberus (particularly with Ashley, who is a bit Xenophobic herself - she is quite the hippocrat, hating Cerberus while holding similar views...maybe not quite to that extreme though)...it should maybe not get them to abandon their post directly, but it should get them on board in some fashion (like providing intel in the future, getting supplies, maybe taking a leave of absence (like the Normandy's doctore did) etc.), but I still hold it against the characters (after all: they are what the writers make them - if the writers write them as idiots, they are idiots!)...narrow minded fools (good thing I don't like either of them in the first place (Kaidan is kind of boring (early alpha version of Jacob!) and Ashley is a xenophobic person (bordering on racism) for me)

 

greetings LAX

[Village_Idiot]

I've never really understood the hatred the Horizon encounter gets. I'm sympathetic to those who didn't like how Kaidan and Ash were completely sidelined in ME2 (since they make a grand total of two appearances each), but their distrust of Shep was completely understandable.

 

Look at it from their perspective. A friend/comrade/lover who you thought dead for the past two years has not only miraculously risen from the dead, but is now also gunning for a previously antagonistic organisation with an incredibly chequered back record of weird science, shady dealings and acts of terrorism. 

 

In their shoes, I'd be seriously questioning whether Shepard is who s/he claims to be. Admittedly though, Shepard's dialogue in the scene was pretty terrible and didn't help matters.

[MissMayhem96]

I just feel like if Shepard can be persuasive enough to convince two indoctrinated antagonists to kill themselves that maybe Shep could have persuaded Kaidan and Ash that they were not a clone etc. and their reasons were good. 

[Shuidizi]

I think the real problem (as some above mentioned) is the lack of screen time in ME2, no matter how you like or dislike the Horizon scene, that cameo plus the start of ME2 is absolutely not enough. You don't have anything related to VS besides those. I would be seriously tempted to romance either of them if they get the same kind of treatment as Liara in ME2.

[dgcatanisiri]

I think the real problem (as some above mentioned) is the lack of screen time in ME2, no matter how you like or dislike the Horizon scene, that cameo plus the start of ME2 is absolutely not enough. You don't have anything related to VS besides those. I would be seriously tempted to romance either of them if they get the same kind of treatment as Liara in ME2.

 

The worst part is that Arrival's story is practically gift-wrapped to be Ashley/Kaidan's answer to LotSB - Hackett is asking Shepard to go in without anyone else on their team, the team assembled by Cerberus, who better for him to send along but the one person he knows he can trust who can also gauge Shepard's mental state and reliability? Have Ashley/Kaidan join up with Shepard on the ground, have them along through Arrival, and instead of speaking with Hackett at the end, it's Ashley/Kaidan who Shepard speaks to at the finale. That DLC was all but presented on a silver platter to BE the Ashley/Kaidan version of LotSB, but instead they drop the ball and don't even mention them. I will NEVER understand that decision.

[SporkFu]

The worst part is that Arrival's story is practically gift-wrapped to be Ashley/Kaidan's answer to LotSB - Hackett is asking Shepard to go in without anyone else on their team, the team assembled by Cerberus, who better for him to send along but the one person he knows he can trust who can also gauge Shepard's mental state and reliability? Have Ashley/Kaidan join up with Shepard on the ground, have them along through Arrival, and instead of speaking with Hackett at the end, it's Ashley/Kaidan who Shepard speaks to at the finale. That DLC was all but presented on a silver platter to BE the Ashley/Kaidan version of LotSB, but instead they drop the ball and don't even mention them. I will NEVER understand that decision.

Oh man, Arrival would have been a billion times better if that were the case. Maybe they could have settled all that conversation on Mars at the same time, and then maybe when they arrive on Mars they might've just talked maybe just a little more about the reaper invasion that just happened instead. 

 

Maybe instead of Hackett sending Ash/Kaidan to join shep on Aratoht, it's shep who calls them up and asks them to meet up planetside. 

[Coming0fShadows]

Well i think the VS is pretty stupid for saying the stuff he or she says, even if that's what they are thinking. If they are right, there is absolutely nothing stopping Shepard and company from blowing his/her brains out for essentially saying that Shepard is working for the enemy / is the enemy.

 

[Han Shot First]

The worst part is that Arrival's story is practically gift-wrapped to be Ashley/Kaidan's answer to LotSB - Hackett is asking Shepard to go in without anyone else on their team, the team assembled by Cerberus, who better for him to send along but the one person he knows he can trust who can also gauge Shepard's mental state and reliability? Have Ashley/Kaidan join up with Shepard on the ground, have them along through Arrival, and instead of speaking with Hackett at the end, it's Ashley/Kaidan who Shepard speaks to at the finale. That DLC was all but presented on a silver platter to BE the Ashley/Kaidan version of LotSB, but instead they drop the ball and don't even mention them. I will NEVER understand that decision.

 

Arrival should have been focused on the VS. Besides it both providing a reason for the VS' later promotion to Spectre, and a stage before ME3 to hash out any lingering trust issues over the Lazarus Project and Cerberus, characters have always been the main draw for Bioware games. It was an odd decision for a game series where the companion characters are the main draw, to have a DLC that featured no dialogue or involvement with those characters. Even more baffling is that it followed on the heels of Lair of the Shadow Broker, which was being praised by many as the best DLC for the series, and which had a strong character focus.

[Gkonone]

What made me get back together is the simple fact that Ashley is a great character, and a lot of people don't see this or don't want to. I see a lot of Ashley hate on these forums and elsewhere, and it mostly consists of her being a racist ******, which she really isn't if one would take the time to explore her character.

 

Ashley is a dedicated soldier and human being, striving for the best and hindered by her past, and probably by the fact that she's a female soldier who can hold her own against any male but is being held back by sexism from her superiors. As she says ' as a Williams you have to be better than the rest,(to make up for Shanxi'). It's where her grandfather surrendered in the First Contact War to the Turians. An army consisting of humans being defeated by aliens.

It has made her very driven and at times a bit blunt, but she does care a lot for the people close to her. She mentions the importance of her family, how she helped raising her sisters in the absence of her father and this is evidenced in ME3 with her supporting her sister who lost her husband.

She is by no means xenophobic or racist, she befriends several alien squad members and during Virmire she teams up with Salarians respecting their skill and tenacity.

If you cheat on her with Tali in ME2, she accepts it more or less saying that Tali always felt like a sister to her.

 

Apart from all this, she hates Cerberus with good reason, as they are a terrorist organisation (which was made very apparent in ME1) that perform inhumane experiments as shown in ME3. She has very good reason to doubt Shepard there. The irony here is that she denounces an organisation that is known for being racist, while she is being accused of that by a lot of people.

 

The scene on Horizon on itself isn't that bad if it weren't for the fact that there is no way to reconciliate after.

Long story short, Ash is worth it.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

I see I'm going to come in here and school some people.

 

Suffice to say, I've written essays before on why Ashley is an objectively bad character and an objectively bad person.

[Iakus]

Five days to turn this into a bash-Ash thread.

 

Well, that's a bit more restraint than I would have expected...

[Gkonone]

Five days to turn this into a bash-Ash thread.

 

Well, that's a bit more restraint than I would have expected...

Hehe, I'm getting so tired of the Ash bashing that most of the time I don't bother.

[lordbyro]

Hi, in ME1 my male Shepard couldn't love Kaidan. I tried a lot ;-D

In ME2 Shepard had no romance but in ME3 finally the two gorgeous guys got together in all missions and they did sex, kisses, etc. I loved!


(sorry about my poor english. I hope u understand me ;-)