Synthesis, 'cause I wanted to.
Then Synthesis again, 'cause I still wanted to.
Then Control, 'cause well, you guessed it, I wanted to.
Then Synthesis one last time, 'cause I wanted to choose Destroy, but I reloaded immediately afterward. 'Cause, well, I realized I didn't want to.
I think TIM's too smart to just be a patsy, though. He'd figure it out eventually. That was the thing about indoctrination; everything he was doing seemed like it was his idea, and really it was just a distraction tactic by the reapers.
I'm saying that it would turn out that he was only pretending and it was he who was fooling the Reapers, all in a bid to get close enough to control them. He would have sacrificed Cerberus to Indoctrination in order to further the deception while he himself remained sane. In this scenario when he approaches Shepard he is 100% TIM.
I'm saying that it would turn out that he was only pretending and it was he who was fooling the Reapers, all in a bid to get close enough to control them. He would have sacrificed Cerberus to Indoctrination in order to further the deception while he himself remained sane. In this scenario when he approaches Shepard he is 100% TIM.
And TIM was avoiding indoctrination and fooling the Reapers while Cerberus was being indoctrinated ... how, exactly?
To me the most satisfying part of ME3 was when Shep made the decision to let Legion upload and there was peace between the Quarians and Geth for the first time in 300 years. Further, as a gesture of goodwill, the Geth went further in helping the Quarians rebuild, and even further helping with finding solutions to their “medical immunity” problem. I’ll never forget this dialogue with Tali & Shep in engineering. This was BEFORE synthesis.
This disproves the statement said (more or less) “the creation will eventually rebel against its creator”…. and something some folks on this forum have tried to “remove the splinter from my eye” about & play on words (rather than the concept).
I do believe “the creation will rebel against its OPPRESSIVE creator”. So would organics. (Let’s not nit-pick about amebas & bacteria shall we?) Some on this forum reverence each word spoken by Leviathan or Reaper to be infallible. I differ. EDI’s indictment of what she thinks about the reapers cannot be improved upon.
The Quarian & Geth peace was great. I could not back-stab and destroy the Geth at this point. So that influences my decision in the end.
Though DESTROY might seem the emotional response; looking forward, the peace will not last as now -- all this military armada is sitting around with nothing to do. Guess what? Do I have to elaborate on the Council’s fears & prejudices?
Control does just that – controls in the hands of ONE person. Is Shep ready to something he told TIM (more or less) “we/you are not ready to control something of this complexity”.
So synthesis is all about:
Rainbows in the sky.
Children singing in the flowered fields.
Sunshine & Bunnies (as Joker would say as he gives EDI a big HUG!)
The created DID rebel against their creators. In this case they made peace. The Catalyst doesn't allow for the option that organic and synthetic can make peace after the initial rebellion. The Catalyst undoes all of that with it's version of Destroy -- and I know that "you can destroy all synthetic life including the Geth" was put in for the sole purpose of selling the other two options. If Destroy only affected the reapers very very few would have selected Control or Synthesis.
The created DID rebel against their creators. In this case they made peace. The Catalyst doesn't allow for the option that organic and synthetic can make peace after the initial rebellion. The Catalyst undoes all of that with it's version of Destroy -- and I know that "you can destroy all synthetic life including the Geth" was put in for the sole purpose of selling the other two options. If Destroy only affected the reapers very very few would have selected Control or Synthesis.
More than just the geth, EDI's death absolutely factored in, but yes, I'd have begun entertaining the notion of choosing Destroy at that point, for sure. I still dislike its Extended Cut presentation compared with the other two, though. It has good musical cues, but I dislike Hackett's monologue next to EDI's and Shepard's, and I'm about as negative on the breath scene as anyone can possibly be.
From an "if I were Shepard" standpoint, Destroy every time. But the other endings are more interesting, emotionally satisfying and aesthetically pleasing. They win.
From an "if I were Shepard" standpoint, Destroy every time. But the other endings are more interesting, emotionally satisfying and aesthetically pleasing. They win.
And TIM was avoiding indoctrination and fooling the Reapers while Cerberus was being indoctrinated ... how, exactly?
I haven't thought that far ahead. It was just a hypothetical I had for changing up the ending sequence.
I'm saying that it would turn out that he was only pretending and it was he who was fooling the Reapers, all in a bid to get close enough to control them. He would have sacrificed Cerberus to Indoctrination in order to further the deception while he himself remained sane. In this scenario when he approaches Shepard he is 100% TIM.
If TIM is 100% himself throughout ME3, then that makes everything he does even worse, and it makes him a genocidal maniac. If he really was trying to pull off controlling the reapers in this way, he should have joined forces with everyone else and directed Cerberus to actively fight against the reapers, only to snatch control at the last minute.
Wait a moment; Can you actually choose endings in Mass Effect 3? I sure as hell hadn't noticed.
Wait a moment; Can you actually choose endings in Mass Effect 3? I sure as hell hadn't noticed.
Sarcastic response: Yeah.
Actual response: Obviously.
If TIM is 100% himself throughout ME3, then that makes everything he does even worse, and it makes him a genocidal maniac. If he really was trying to pull off controlling the reapers in this way, he should have joined forces with everyone else and directed Cerberus to actively fight against the reapers, only to snatch control at the last minute.
It would be interesting if TIM did take control over the reapers at the last minute. Ems would play a role in that happening especially if Shepard destroyed the base in ME2 and your ems is below 1750. At that point the only option TIM would have is destroy.
It would be interesting if TIM did take control over the reapers at the last minute. Ems would play a role in that happening especially if Shepard destroyed the base in ME2 and your ems is below 1750. At that point the only option TIM would have is destroy.
Lol... man wouldn't TIM be pi***d off then?
The created DID rebel against their creators. In this case they made peace. The Catalyst doesn't allow for the option that organic and synthetic can make peace after the initial rebellion. The Catalyst undoes all of that with it's version of Destroy -- and I know that "you can destroy all synthetic life including the Geth" was put in for the sole purpose of selling the other two options. If Destroy only affected the reapers very very few would have selected Control or Synthesis.
Well I would still have picked control or synthesis. I agree with TIM on this, as well as with the Collector base. It would be foolish to destroy them.
I prefer control over synthesis because it allows for life to reach synthesis on it's own, or to to step in in case the Catalyst is right.
Wouldn't do any good for a mind controlled by the Reaper agenda to take control of the Reapers.
I guess the explanation could be that the process would convert TIM to a robotic mind and by doing so the organic only Indoctrination would cease to have an effect.
Lol... man wouldn't TIM be pi***d off then?
He would. And I bet you would see the vein in his forehead explode
It would be interesting if TIM did take control over the reapers at the last minute. Ems would play a role in that happening especially if Shepard destroyed the base in ME2 and your ems is below 1750. At that point the only option TIM would have is destroy.
This is amazingly hilarious to visualize.
I guess the explanation could be that the process would convert TIM to a robotic mind and by doing so the organic only Indoctrination would cease to have an effect.
Indoctrination's effects on the mind are permanent, though.
Benezia: "I am not myself, and I never will be again."
But Benezia was never turned into a robot either, like ImaginaryMatter is suggesting.
Honestly, I think taking away the organic part of an indoctrinated organic's mind would just make them even more of a puppet, for example: Saren.
The Collector base was a problematic one. It would be foolish to destroy it in general but I always thought it more foolish to give it to Cerberus.Well I would still have picked control or synthesis. I agree with TIM on this, as well as with the Collector base. It would be foolish to destroy them.
I prefer control over synthesis because it allows for life to reach synthesis on it's own, or to to step in in case the Catalyst is right.
If TIM is 100% himself throughout ME3, then that makes everything he does even worse, and it makes him a genocidal maniac. If he really was trying to pull off controlling the reapers in this way, he should have joined forces with everyone else and directed Cerberus to actively fight against the reapers, only to snatch control at the last minute.
TIM as he stands in ME3 right now is pretty terrible, as he's Indoctrinated, except when he's not (not to mention how he got Indoctrinated and where ME2 fits into all of that). And even then his Indoctrination logic is too small of a fig leaf to explain all his actions. In his acting he would be playing out some other Indoctrinated goal that would make his actions, like invading everywhere, more coherent; although all his conversations would have to be changed as well, perhaps he would only tell Shepard of his plan earlier if Shepard had more of a rapport with him.
His rational for not joining the Council and/or the Alliance was because he knew they would not stand for the experiments on Sanctuary; and that by moving out into the open he would have too many watchful eyes to try a last minute fast one. The explanation for attacking everything would be to play the part that he was Indoctrinated so he could continue to get his hands on the Reaper tech needed to retrace the signal to get the Control option to work. So basically he couldn't join the organics because they wouldn't trust him and he needed to be chummy with the Reapers so they would continue to lend him research materials.
I think it would be better conclusion to his character than Indoctrination induced Stupid Evil, replacing it instead with ruthless pragmatism. Plus it would help the ending by not having every option presented by the Catalyst. Personally, I think it also would have better delivered on all the build up every post Cerberus conversation had about TIM having a plan, instead of just being Indoctrinated. It's not perfect. It is trading nonsense for nonsense. But I do think it is a slight improvement.
If Destroy only affected the reapers very very few would have selected Control or Synthesis.
Yes -- exactly!
Indoctrination's effects on the mind are permanent, though.
Benezia: "I am not myself, and I never will be again."
Benezia never had the chance to become a robot though. Beside the mechanics of Control and the Crucible are unexplained anyway so I think you can get away with pretty much anything. Just have some character explain that the knobs reverse Indoctrination.
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