Yeah, well then it coomes down to how much synthetic stuff you need to be classes as a synthetic then doesn't it.
Or it's just a load of bollocks they didn't think through as they needed something as a negative to stop everyone choosing the red wave of fun.
Well, Shepard isn't considered transhuman, so...
But yeah, it was pretty clearly an arbitrary punishment to try and "balance" the alternatives.
I guess so. I always thought that the geth can achieve sentience without the Reaper code, they just need time.
An individual geth has only a basic intelligence on par with animal instincts, but in groups they can reason, analyze situations, and make tactical decisions as well as any of the organic races.
Only by coming together they were able to overcome those programming limitations. Legion - 11 million geth programs in one autonomous platform. But even Legion was not a true sentient being, at least not in the traditional sense. The geth searched for that sentience, to not to depend on each other that much, to have independent individual geth collected in the consensus not because they need but because they want to. Legion was the first step, but even he was not a true sentient being before starting to use the Reaper code.
See theres the think "sentient in the traditional sense" The geth had achieved sentience, but by going down a different path as the individual-minded organic. The geth are alien. They are different. They were determined to find their own path.
"All species must be judged on their own merits. Treating every species like one's own is racist. Even benign anthropomorphism"
See theres the think "sentient in the traditional sense" The geth had achieved sentience, but by going down a different path as the individual-minded organic. The geth are alien. They are different. They were determined to find their own path.
"All species must be judged on their own merits. Treating every species like one's own is racist. Even benign anthropomorphism"
I'm rolling with the decisions they'd made. Choosing to use Reaper code to achieve "traditional sentience" is such a decision. They could've ditched it and stayed the way they were.
"We are a shattered mind. Most platforms are unable to achieve consciousness of their own" - Legion's words in ME2
I'm rolling with the decisions they'd made. Choosing to use Reaper code to achieve "traditional sentience" is such a decision. They could've ditched it and stayed the way they were.
"We are a shattered mind. Most platforms are unable to achieve consciousness of their own" - Legion's words in ME2
Kinda funny, Legion unilaterally decided that the code was good for all geth. The geth consensus did not reach such a decision of their own. they were given no opportunity to decide to stay as they were.
And yes, the geth are a shattered mind. Individually, little more than a VI. But together, they become much, much more.
Kinda funny, Legion unilaterally decided that the code was good for all geth. The geth consensus did not reach such a decision of their own. they were given no opportunity to decide to stay as they were.
And yes, the geth are a shattered mind. Individually, little more than a VI. But together, they become much, much more.
I'd think that to change the programming of all geth one would need some help on their part. Legion has trouble even in consensus mission, he would not be able to reprogram all geth without them wanting so.
They were building a megastructure, to upload themselves in it and become whole. That was their plan for becoming sentient. Then quarians attacked, a lot of them died - they turned to the Reapers. Then it gets fun - they see the benefits of the Reaper code which basically allowed each geth to become sentient without sacrificing mobility of individual platforms and roll with it. At least that's how I see it.
Not saying it's necessarily true, you may like your theory more and it would not be wrong in any way. I like my version, because it makes the Destroy ending to have less negativity. 
I'd think that to change the programming of all geth one would need some help on their part. Legion has trouble even in consensus mission, he would not be able to reprogram all geth without them wanting so.
They were building a megastructure, to upload themselves in it and become whole. That was their plan for becoming sentient. Then quarians attacked, a lot of them died - they turned to the Reapers. Then it gets fun - they see the benefits of the Reaper code which basically allowed each geth to become sentient without sacrificing mobility of individual platforms and roll with it. At least that's how I see it.
Not saying it's necessarily true, you may like your theory more and it would not be wrong in any way. I like my version, because it makes the Destroy ending to have less negativity.
The geth were already sentient. At least as a network. They were building a megastructure to achieve their true potential: a gestalt intelligence great enough to hold all their minds at once and have incalculable intelligence.
This wasn't sentience for the geth, this was transcendence. Arguably, their own version of posthumanism.
instead they get...Reaper code? They get to be like every other meatbag organic out there? Yay I guess. 
This isn't my theory. This is stuff the games have told us. This is Bioware butchering the geth and synthetics in general to have thie "bittersweet" endings.
Also, each geth gets to become sentient? Umm, how many geth were needed to run a platform before? So, um, who gets to be in the driver's seat now?
Agreed, but their networking capabilities were severely limited and they sacrificed mobility to reach higher levels of intelligence. 11 million programs is not enough to create sentience - much more is needed.The geth were already sentient. At least as a network.
There is a minimum number of geth programs for the platform's operation. With Reaper code, performance of those programs is boosted so the geth platform becomes a standalone unit capable of independent thought and analysis. I would even go further and claim that the code allows the geth to use Reaper capabilities of long-range communication, essentially bringing more platforms together and crearing sentience in a "traditional geth sense". Each geth platform thus becomes "sentient" in geth sense.Also, each geth gets to become sentient? Umm, how many geth were needed to run a platform before? So, um, who gets to be in the driver's seat now?
You are the one to decide how to interpret that stuff. You seem to have chosen to ignore ME3 events dismissing them asThis is stuff the games have told us.
Your choice.Bioware butchering the geth and synthetics in general to have thie "bittersweet" endings.
You are the one to decide how to interpret that stuff. You seem to have chosen to ignore ME3 events dismissing them as Your choice.
It's pretty hard to interpret Legion's remarks in ME2 as anything but "We are sentient beings looking for a place in the universe", which is something ME3 pretty much contradicts.
I don't ignore ME3's events, I go "WTF this contradicts previously established lore!"
First, I admit I haven't YET had the opportunity to read all the previous threads -- put plan to when time permits.
I have a question for you DESTROY fanatics out there. I’ve been thinking this thru every time I play the ME1,2,3 series. After playing them all & thinking about the eventual outcome – I can’t help but wonder what is BEST solution for the galaxy…rather than just what’s good for Shep.
SYNTHESIS looks like all “sunshine & bunnies” but this option is forcing Shep’s will upon all life, both organic & artificial. IMO, that is invasive and won’t allow free choice. Second, that’s what Catalyst wants and I oppose it.
DESTROY: feels good – but if I recall, it also destroys the mass relays which leaves the galaxy in total chaos. In the last moments, Hackett gave the order to “meet at the specified rendezvous point” wherever that is. If the mass relays are destroyed after the dispersal, then it looks to me that everybody is screwed…they can’t get home & rebuild their worlds. Our galaxy happens to be 100,000 light years in diameter. At FTL speeds (say 10x) from were Sol is located, that’d take on the average about 4,000 years to reach home – assuming you have inexhaustible fuel & food. That’s not going to happen. Did I miss something?
CONTROL: permits the reapers to rebuild mass relays and the citadel and make a STAB to rebuild the worlds utterly destroyed with the information & knowledge they’ve acquired via previous galactic harvests. This IMO is not invasive as synthesis & doesn’t leave everything in smoldering ruins. Once there is some order restored, Shep can then dispose of the reapers as he originally wanted to.
Thoughts?
Starbrat: "Releasing the energy of the crucible will end the cycle, but it will also destroy the mass relays. The paths are open, but you have to choose."
Dale you need to see the ending that we had when we bought the game.... It's not that namby pamby EC ending.
Oh and it didn't matter either...
I played the game a few times pre-EC. I thought I had forgotten...Starbrat: "Releasing the energy of the crucible will end the cycle, but it will also destroy the mass relays. The paths are open, but you have to choose."
Dale you need to see the ending that we had when we bought the game.... It's not that namby pamby EC ending.
Oh and it didn't matter either...
I played the game a few times pre-EC. I thought I had forgotten...
Yeah it does good to remind ourselves about what we once saw. Most people who played the game for the first time after August 2012 never experienced the Original Ending.
All the endings were virtually identical except for the color of the explosions on your screen: You died, the relays exploded, and the Normandy crashed.
It really shows how much the EC adds to the end. Like it or not, it is an improvement.Yeah it does good to remind ourselves about what we once saw. Most people who played the game for the first time after August 2012 never experienced the Original Ending.
All the endings were virtually identical except for the color of the explosions on your screen: You died, the relays exploded, and the Normandy crashed.
It really shows how much the EC adds to the end. Like it or not, it is an improvement.
In the same way that a punch in the nose is better than a kick in the groin, maybe,
I fail to see any contradiction. Geth follow their megastructure plan from ME2, get attacked by the quarians and are almost destroyed in that vulnerable state. Reapers come and offer help. What do you think they should've done? Refuse the offer and die? They accepted the offer and then figured out how to use Reaper technology against the Reapers themselves.
How is using the Reaper technology to make themselves "real boys" using it against the Reapers?
No maybe about it, heh. There are many, many, many things better than a kick in the groin.In the same way that a punch in the nose is better than a kick in the groin, maybe,
I fail to see any contradiction. Geth follow their megastructure plan from ME2, get attacked by the quarians and are almost destroyed in that vulnerable state. Reapers come and offer help. What do you think they should've done? Refuse the offer and die? They accepted the offer and then figured out how to use Reaper technology against the Reapers themselves.
It seemed to me that the primary goal of the upgrade code was to protect the geth from the quarians, who had already developed a weapon to effectively disable the geth and had them on the ropes. The only real hint we get about the code preventing future hacking attempts is if Shepard does the interview with Allers, which is problematic to me, because Legion never explains that the code would do any such thing.
No maybe about it, heh. There are many, many, many things better than a kick in the groin.
All depends on how a person feels about the endings to begin with, I guess. For me, the EC added quite a bit, and I was pleased with it.
I never saw the original endings. By the time I got to the third game, EC was already out. And now that I saw videos that Julia posted...
I am really glad for that little mercy.
How is using the Reaper technology to make themselves "real boys" using it against the Reapers?
The only real hint we get about the code preventing future hacking attempts is if Shepard does the interview with Allers, which is problematic to me, because Legion never explains that the code would do any such thing.
I never saw the original endings. By the time I got to the third game, EC was already out. And now that I saw videos that Julia posted...
I am really glad for that little mercy.
Becomes a little easier to understand the backlash over the endings.
It really shows how much the EC adds to the end. Like it or not, it is an improvement.
The only improvement it gave me was the flashbacks and expanded on the destroy ending.
I never saw the original endings. By the time I got to the third game, EC was already out. And now that I saw videos that Julia posted...
I am really glad for that little mercy.
Same here. I was very tempted to preorder the game but did not break my usual way of getting games - about a month or two after release. At that time the backlash was quite strong and I decided to wait it out. Played the game with EC already installed and loved it
Afterwards, I watched original endings on YouTube - they sucked. The only reason I can see for them is the game being rushed. It was delayed once, publisher didn't want another delay.
Becomes a little easier to understand the backlash over the endings.
Yeah... it really does. Especially when you account for something like this:
Same here. I was very tempted to preorder the game but did not break my usual way of getting games - about a month or two after release. At that time the backlash was quite strong and I decided to wait it out. Played the game with EC already installed and loved it
Afterwards, I watched original endings on YouTube - they sucked. The only reason I can see for them is the game being rushed. It was delayed once, publisher didn't want another delay.
Eh, the ending wasn't the only indication the game was rushed. It was probably the most obvious and painful, but there's ton of hints during the course of the game.
Yeah... it really does. Especially when you account for something like this:
Wait, that was the actual pop up? Really?
Retour en haut