Canon MShep chose Control. The sad thing is he'd probably prefer to live in a Destroy universe. He certainly doesn't want to be a god. But he views it as his duty to get the galaxy rebuilt as fast as possible.
Canon FShep chose Synthesis because she wanted the galaxy to have cool techno-toys.
It's the attitude of the Shepard.
I don't see how this makes a case for Refusal, though. Everything Shepard actually knows means that Refuse = disaster. I'm not quite sure what there is to even hope for. Reaper capabilities are well established by that point in the war. So are the capabilities of the allied forces.Of course.
The point was that in refusing the Crucible Shepard would still be alive, and able to do something/nothing/anything. The character can still have faith, however faint, that we'll find other ways. We the players are the only ones who know for sure that refusal will end in annihilation.
Trusting the Catalyst means Shep dies, hoping/trusting the universe to be saved. The level of that trust is proportionate to the level of belief in the Catalysts explanations, and/or assertions.
Shepard can die with a remote hope that the Galaxy will live, or with a strong conviction that it will. She cannot know.
"I feel like my choices didn't matter."
*picks refuse*
IMO control is the only ending that is logical to choose.
Destroy: Well everyone is going to be fucked over by synthetics sooner or later
Synthesis: I can guarantee you that at least half the galaxy isn't going to want to become a organic-synthetic hybrid
Rejection: Well that really doesn't help anyone does it?
Destroy: I live and get to see my waifu. Okay, so someone builds the doom machine.... well, it already had been built. And by the time another one is built, what do I care? I'll be dead.
Control: I'm dead. Shepardlyst does the "Shepard moral thing" to solve the relations between organics and synthetics. How long before Shepardlyst decides to harvest the galaxy?
Synthesis: I'm dead.
Refuse: Everyone is dead.
Control: I'm dead. Shepardlyst does the "Shepard moral thing" to solve the relations between organics and synthetics. How long before Shepardlyst decides to harvest the galaxy?.
We really need to come up with some more interesting ways for Control to go bad. Signing on with the Catalyst's plan is just repetitive.
It seems to be that, or establishes a dictatorship. Sometimes people express a fear that the Shepard uploading process might not accurately duplicate Shepard, but I haven't seen anything else in a long while...
Of course.
The point was that in refusing the Crucible Shepard would still be alive, and able to do something/nothing/anything. The character can still have faith, however faint, that we'll find other ways. We the players are the only ones who know for sure that refusal will end in annihilation.
Trusting the Catalyst means Shep dies, hoping/trusting the universe to be saved. The level of that trust is proportionate to the level of belief in the Catalysts explanations, and/or assertions.
Shepard can die with a remote hope that the Galaxy will live, or with a strong conviction that it will. She cannot know.
This isn't really a particularly good thing to have conviction about, because it at least guarantees that the human race, as well as all the other races actively fighting the reapers will be done for. The galaxy at large may live, but it will do so without anything and everything that Shepard has been fighting for up until that point.
In a game structure where we didn't have to worry about player choice, the idea they were playing around with on the conceptual level that Shepard (who once took out Saren) eventually resorts to Reaper tech to equip himself to fight the Reapers and then must be confronted by the newly christened Spectre Ashley/Kaidan would have really been the perfect thematic conclusion to a story about cycles.
which was a terrible idea to beign with, ME is not concerned with repeating cycles, but breaking out of them
We really need to come up with some more interesting ways for Control to go bad. Signing on with the Catalyst's plan is just repetitive.
It's a legitimate worry.Organics and synthetics are different at a fundamental level. It's implausible enough that an organic mind can be reconstructed with organic material. But an organic mind being transferred to a synthetic interface? There is no precedent for that in the ME universe? Or rather, what we do have are wildly unsuccessful attempt such as Project Overlord, President Huerta, and the Shepard VI.
So the concept that the Shepalyst might go insane or lose control at some point, be it the near future or distant, is a valid concern. Particularly given the Catalyst's warnings that the Shepalyst would no longer identify as human, or even organic. It will lack Shepard's emotions and the connections that go with them. And that alone would certainly change its personality and perspective. Nevermind the whole immortality thing.
@Iakus: There is some positive precedent - Virtual Aliens in the Cerberus Daily News - but I never really liked that particular news story anyway (the sci-fi involved is FAR too soft), and it is a bit obscure. It is technically canon though (then again, so are the comics).
Synthetics lack emotions? I'd have to disagree on that point. They seem to experience them a bit differently, but I wouldn't say they don't have them. (EDI describes positive feedback, desires, and values. And humour.)
I'm in full agreement that the Shepard-AI being different from Shepard is a legitimate worry, since we have no knowledge of how the upload works, and it is a fairly big change to go through. It just seems to be the only concern that ever crops up for Control. I suppose that makes sense though, since the change to Shepard is pretty much the only downside to Control...
Destroy: I live and get to see my waifu. Okay, so someone builds the doom machine.... well, it already had been built. And by the time another one is built, what do I care? I'll be dead.
Control: I'm dead. Shepardlyst does the "Shepard moral thing" to solve the relations between organics and synthetics. How long before Shepardlyst decides to harvest the galaxy?
Synthesis: I'm dead.
Refuse: Everyone is dead.
Actually, if shepard refused that would only mean many more lives would have been lost. They might have been able to beat them without the crucible.
Actually, if shepard refused that would only mean many more lives would have been lost. They might have been able to beat them without the crucible.
...
WHAT?
Really... what?
They might have been able to beat them without the crucible.
One word:
How?
Actually, if shepard refused that would only mean many more lives would have been lost. They might have been able to beat them without the crucible.
It's conceivable, just as it's conceivable that some more powerful species from another galaxy arrives to save the day in the nick of time. But you can't make judgment calls based on such a small possibility. You have the opportunity to end the war for sure right here and now, or hope that someone somewhere down the line discovers another miracle weapon (after, as you said millions/billions more die).
That's not a risk i'm willing to take.
One word:
How?
Sheer numbers and military strength. I had 8500 EMS without DLC. It would`ve been possible.
Sheer numbers and military strength. I had 8500 EMS without DLC. It would`ve been possible.
...
Okay, fair point. It is technically possible to get X EMS in-game, where X is a large number of your choosing.
You see Bioware, this is why you ought to have given the player an upper limit on preparedness for the final battle, not a constantly increasing number. Because if you want that battle to be a hard fought, last stand style fight, you shouldn't be providing the player with potentially unlimited military strength (at least as far as the number is concerned).
Putting aside the issue of EMS, I'm fairly sure that if you lined up ALL the forces of the galaxy against ALL the Reapers, we'd still lose. I imagine we'd make a dent, but nothing more than a dent. (What's the largest number of Sovereign class battleships seen on screen at any one time? Okay, compare that to an optimistic count on the number of dreadnoughts we have. I don't know what the answer is here, but since we'd need about 4 times as many dreadnoughts as them, I don't think we're going to come out on top.)
This isn't really a particularly good thing to have conviction about, because it at least guarantees that the human race, as well as all the other races actively fighting the reapers will be done for. The galaxy at large may live, but it will do so without anything and everything that Shepard has been fighting for up until that point.
Eh, I think you misunderstood what she would have conviction about.
...
Okay, fair point. It is technically possible to get X EMS in-game, where X is a large number of your choosing.
You see Bioware, this is why you ought to have given the player an upper limit on preparedness for the final battle, not a constantly increasing number. Because if you want that battle to be a hard fought, last stand style fight, you shouldn't be providing the player with potentially unlimited military strength (at least as far as the number is concerned).
Putting aside the issue of EMS, I'm fairly sure that if you lined up ALL the forces of the galaxy against ALL the Reapers, we'd still lose. I imagine we'd make a dent, but nothing more than a dent. (What's the largest number of Sovereign class battleships seen on screen at any one time? Okay, compare that to an optimistic count on the number of dreadnoughts we have. I don't know what the answer is here, but since we'd need about 4 times as many dreadnoughts as them, I don't think we're going to come out on top.)
If you had the help of the leviathans, quarians, geth, humans, krogans, salarians, asari, elcor, drell and hanar, I think you could win.
What's the largest number of Sovereign class battleships seen on screen at any one time? Okay, compare that to an optimistic count on the number of dreadnoughts we have. I don't know what the answer is here, but since we'd need about 4 times as many dreadnoughts as them, I don't think we're going to come out on top.
If you had the help of the leviathans, quarians, geth, humans, krogans, salarians, asari, elcor, drell and hanar, I think you could win.
To take some research from 2 years ago, someone actually did something similar to what I'm asking:
It’s right before the battle for Earth begins. I took my time and counted them. It’s about a hundred.
100 Sovereign Class Reapers. At absolute minimum. I don't think the galaxy has the 400 Dreadnoughts necessary to take that on. Especially since the Codex puts the combined Council fleets at 83 (that's ALL of the Turian, Asari, Salarian and Human dreadnoughts). Not unless the Leviathans or Protheans had a secret stash of dreadnoughts hiding somewhere.
(I seriously doubt that the Geth, Quarians and remaining smaller groups total anywhere near 320 dreadnoughts. Quarians are pegged as somewhat similar to the Turians, and the Geth must be somewhat similar to the Quarians for the battles at Rannoch to make sense. Also, we'd probably actually need much more than 400 dreadnoughts, since the Reapers are occupying most of the galaxy by that stage of the game, and the 100 above is just what they pulled in to defend Earth.)
If you had the help of the leviathans, quarians, geth, humans, krogans, salarians, asari, elcor, drell and hanar, I think you could win.
To be fair people say a bunch of crap all the time in these games that ends up not being true.
@Iakus: There is some positive precedent - Virtual Aliens in the Cerberus Daily News - but I never really liked that particular news story anyway (the sci-fi involved is FAR too soft), and it is a bit obscure. It is technically canon though (then again, so are the comics).
Synthetics lack emotions? I'd have to disagree on that point. They seem to experience them a bit differently, but I wouldn't say they don't have them. (EDI describes positive feedback, desires, and values. And humour.)
I'm in full agreement that the Shepard-AI being different from Shepard is a legitimate worry, since we have no knowledge of how the upload works, and it is a fairly big change to go through. It just seems to be the only concern that ever crops up for Control. I suppose that makes sense though, since the change to Shepard is pretty much the only downside to Control...
I do not say synthetics lack emotions, but those emotions will be quite differnt from how organics experience them, despite having certain parallels.
And in any case, the Shepalyst will lack Shepard's emotions. Just as EDI cannot replicate a human's emotions (though she does have her own emotional responses).
And the Shepalyst will certainly lack Shepard's emotional connections to the people he/she knew and fought to protect. The Catalyst explicitly says so.
And the Shepalyst will certainly lack Shepard's emotional connections to the people he/she knew and fought to protect. The Catalyst explicitly says so.
Eh... It explicitly states that "Your connection to your kind will be lost". I think we'll have to agree to disagree over exactly what that means.
Retour en haut
