60 réponses à ce sujet

[seacrest3000]

I want to settle for this build at lvl 30:

Heavy warp
Heavy throw
Heavy singularity
Area pull
Max passive, the one that gives duration bonus
Stasis 1

Currently my build is like this:

Warp 2
Throw 1
Heavy singularity
Pull 1
Passive 3
Stasis 1

Once the passive is maxed out and I get the biotic cooldown upgrade and assault rifle training, the build is mostly fully functional. The question is in what order should I max out warp, throw and pull? Previously I maxed out warp first for more powerful biotic explosions, followed by pull for emergency aoe stagger, and lastly throw because I can usually manage to knock enemies off ledges with throw 1. Does anyone do it differently, and if so how do you do it?

Anyone maxes out heavy throw first for easier knock outs? How about area throw to knock out groups disabled with area pull from Jacob/Jack/Samara?

[RedCaesar97]

It looks like you are building your Adept just fine.

 

 

The convention wisdom for leveling up the typical ME2 Adept is:

 

1) At level 4:

 

2 - Warp

1 - Throw

2 - Singularity

1 - Pull

0 - Biotic Mastery

1 - Stasis

 

2) Max passive to Bastion for cooldown and duration bonus

3) Max Singularity to Heavy Singularity

4) Max Warp/Pull (I forget which. I think Warp first)

5) Max Pull/Warp

6) Max Throw last.

 

I cannot remember if I have ever used Area Throw. If i recall, Area Throw can potentially throw "secondary" enemies in weird directions, "secondary" being any non-initial enemy hit by the throw. But it has been a while so I apologize if my memory is fuzzy.

[seacrest3000]

Then I have been levelling up my character the orthodox way, with the exception of maxing singularity first. I always liked having a stronger singularity in the beginning. Both gets maxed out quickly anyways.

With regard to area throw, I think I will try it and see what happens.

[a_mouse]

Depends how you are playing, but I usually max throw before pull.  With singularity maxed, there is less need for area pull, and the extra hold time of ranks 2 or 3 pull are not much of a benefit (compared to increased force and throw distance of higher ranks of throw.

[RedCaesar97]

Depends how you are playing, but I usually max throw before pull.  With singularity maxed, there is less need for area pull, and the extra hold time of ranks 2 or 3 pull are much of a benefit (compared to increased force and throw distance of higher ranks of throw.

I guess it depends on how you use Singularity and Pull.

 

Personally, I do not like detonating Singularity with Warp immediately, which causes Singularity to disappear, unless it is the best tactical decision at the time.

I like to use Singularity to hold down an enemy, then try to strip and pull a different enemy. And if you take Garrus (Overload) or Mordin (Incinerate) with you, then you can strip and pull multiple enemies while leaving Singularity intact.

 

That being said, If you are mostly pulling just a single enemy, then yes, maxing Throw first is preferred since Pull is really a 1 or 4 point power. 

[a_mouse]

Personally, I do not like detonating Singularity with Warp immediately, which causes Singularity to disappear, unless it is the best tactical decision at the time. I like to use Singularity to hold down an enemy, then try to strip and pull a different enemy. And if you take Garrus (Overload) or Mordin (Incinerate) with you, then you can strip and pull multiple enemies while leaving Singularity intact.

I totally agree.  I primarily use singularity to control protected enemies while I am dealing with some other threat.  I almost never detonate singularity (except opportunistically as a finishing move when the last two or three enemies are caught up in it).  If I'm detonating, it's almost always a pull bomb.  
 

That being said, If you are mostly pulling just a single enemy, then yes, maxing Throw first is preferred since Pull is really a 1 or 4 point power.

In my experience this is usually the situation.  On rare occasion I will find two debuffed enemies next to each other that can be area pulled - but this unusual with my CQ-oriented play style (which seeks to engage only a few enemies at a time).  Also, if you do have multiple debuffed enemies near each other, and do a quick Shep pull + squad warp on one of them, it sends them all flying (usually to their doom). 

 

I think maybe area pull is more useful with a ranged combat style.  "Set 'em up, set 'em up, and then knock 'em down." (Tom Waits, 1974)

[capn233]

Alright, I am bumping this.  Have been fooling around with a Shotgun Adept a bit in ME2 recently.

 

Anyway I saved Pull for the last thing to max, and actually because of the way I tend to play it and which squad mates I like, I think it would have made a little more sense to get Pull Field before Heavy Warp, and possibly Heavy Throw.  Why?  Well it just has to do with cooldown management for ragdolling multiple enemies.

 

Heavy Throw and Warp are more finishing moves for after the target has been ragdolled,  Of course Throw can be used for quick CC, but it isn't quite as good for that as Pull, and it doesn't kill unless combined with Pull or Singularity at later levels.

 

Since I am partial to Miranda, I can just use her Unstable Warp to detonate combos if need be.  Then again, Warp 3 on Shepard isn't really too bad, and it probably makes sense to invest the points in Pull first at a lower level since the enemy HP scales with level, but Pull Field is massively better than regular Pull even early game.

[RanetheViking]

^ I'm at level 9 with my Adept Insanity run at the moment and it's been a while since I played the Adept in ME2.

 

So a quick question for you guys, Heavy or Unstable Warp for Shep? I think I used to go with Heavy but I'm leaning towards Unstable this time

 

What do you guys prefer?.

[capn233]

Heavy.

 

The main reason I take Unstable on teammates is because it reduces the cooldown.  On Shepard they have the same cooldown and so I go for the higher armor and barrier damage.

[RanetheViking]

Cheers.

 

I was going to try Unstable for the extra detonation damage, but I'll probably go with Heavy.  I've still got aways to go before I level up.

 

Maybe my next run I'll try Unstable for a different play style.

[Farangbaa]

^ I'm at level 9 with my Adept Insanity run at the moment and it's been a while since I played the Adept in ME2.

 

So a quick question for you guys, Heavy or Unstable Warp for Shep? I think I used to go with Heavy but I'm leaning towards Unstable this time

 

What do you guys prefer?.

 

Heavy if you're an Adept and use a squadmate with unstable (Thane/Miranda), because you can use pull/singularity yourself.

Unstable if you're a Sentinel, because you have no pull or singularity and thus need a squadmate for detonations.

 

Alright, I am bumping this.  Have been fooling around with a Shotgun Adept a bit in ME2 recently.

 

Anyway I saved Pull for the last thing to max, and actually because of the way I tend to play it and which squad mates I like, I think it would have made a little more sense to get Pull Field before Heavy Warp, and possibly Heavy Throw.  Why?  Well it just has to do with cooldown management for ragdolling multiple enemies.

 

Heavy Throw and Warp are more finishing moves for after the target has been ragdolled,  Of course Throw can be used for quick CC, but it isn't quite as good for that as Pull, and it doesn't kill unless combined with Pull or Singularity at later levels.

 

Since I am partial to Miranda, I can just use her Unstable Warp to detonate combos if need be.  Then again, Warp 3 on Shepard isn't really too bad, and it probably makes sense to invest the points in Pull first at a lower level since the enemy HP scales with level, but Pull Field is massively better than regular Pull even early game.

 

Leveling pull to the max fast is a waste of points. A level 1 pull is more than enough to detonate or even kill the enemy by gunfire before it falls to the ground again, especially in the later game when you get duration bonuses.

 

I do end up maxing it eventually though, because I rarely use throw (only to finish off unprotected Husks, though these usually get trapped in my singularity) and never use shockwave, so  I end up with this:

 

Warp: 4

Throw: 1

Singularity: 4

Pull: 4

Shockwave: 0

Biotic Mastery: 4

Warp Ammo: 4

[Farangbaa]

Is there a magic property of throw I'm not aware off?

 

Why on earth would you level this if you're Adept? Once you get your level 4 heavy singularity, you can pretty much ditch every other power you have.

[RedCaesar97]

Is there a magic property of throw I'm not aware off?

 

Why on earth would you level this if you're Adept? Once you get your level 4 heavy singularity, you can pretty much ditch every other power you have.

 

Because throwing enemies into the stratosphere is fun.

[capn233]

Leveling pull to the max fast is a waste of points. A level 1 pull is more than enough to detonate or even kill the enemy by gunfire before it falls to the ground again, especially in the later game when you get duration bonuses.

 

How is it a waste of points when it ragdolls multiple enemies with one cast, and does it with a faster cooldown than Singularity?  The point is to get Pull Field earlier for better cooldown management, not to increase the duration of Pull.  It doesn't matter if I can kill one whole enemy with rank 1 Pull, overall my CC is improved with that evolution compared to the last rank of either Throw or Warp.

 

Using Singularity any time you want to ragdoll multiple enemies is wasteful.  It has a longer cooldown than Pull and slower projectile speed.  It probably still makes sense to level it to Heavy before Pull to Field, but that is mostly because of the property of sticking protected targets, not because it is the best choice for CC'ing a group of mooks.

[Farangbaa]

I should make a video of how I play some day, because I play soooo different from you.

 

What difficulty level?

[capn233]

Insanity.

 

If you do record one, make sure it is a CQB Adept.

 

edited.  Today has not been conducive to a good mood.

[RanetheViking]

Yeah, I went with Unstable Warp for my Shep. I found I'm detonating everything I can, so I thought I'd go with that evo this run.

 

It's been a while since I've played the Adept on Insanity and after a few deaths and rage moments I'm getting the hang of it again.

 

The Disabled Collector Ship mission is next so I'll see how much I've improved/remember.

[a_mouse]

Because throwing enemies into the stratosphere is fun.

Ha - I audibly laughed at this comment because it is so darn spot on.  

 

But getting back on point, I generally find level 2 or 3 throw to be noticeably more effective than level 1 at ejecting enemies out of playable territory, so usually prioritize this before raising pull past level 1.  Also, in the rare case I need to immobilize multiple enemies, (and a pull-warp combo is not an option), the slightly longer cooldown on singularity does not really bother me (at least not as much as it seems to bother the capn!)  So I usually spend the 9 points (needed to promote level 1 pull to area pull) elsewhere.

 

I will also add that after MANY runs through the collector platform ambush, I discovered I actually prefer the heavy warp evolution on both Shep and squadmates.  It's not the extra damage I care about - it's the extra detonation *force*, which is noticeably better at causing physics damage and/or ejecting enemies out of the field of play (and the 5m range is usually enough).  

[Farangbaa]

Shouldn't unstable have a higher force? o.O

[cap and gown]

How is it a waste of points when it ragdolls multiple enemies with one cast, and does it with a faster cooldown than Singularity?  The point is to get Pull Field earlier for better cooldown management, not to increase the duration of Pull.  It doesn't matter if I can kill one whole enemy with rank 1 Pull, overall my CC is improved with that evolution compared to the last rank of either Throw or Warp.

 

Using Singularity any time you want to ragdoll multiple enemies is wasteful.  It has a longer cooldown than Pull and slower projectile speed.  It probably still makes sense to level it to Heavy before Pull to Field, but that is mostly because of the property of sticking protected targets, not because it is the best choice for CC'ing a group of mooks.

 

These are all good points, but I end up focusing on Singularity anyway because I only get three hotkeys and one of them has to be Singularity and I prefer to use hotkeys for Shepard's powers. So I often end up with Y - Singularity, LB - Warp and RB - either ED or Throw. Pull gets left in the dust because of this.

 

RedCeasar is constantly berating me for not using Pull.

 

(Also, I just don't want to get the enemy closer to me, and my mind works to slow for arcade game styles of play.)

[capn233]

I was making the case for getting Pull Field before Heavy Throw or Heavy Warp, ie rank 4 of either.  What I am basically saying is that I think in most fights having Heavy Singularity to stick semi-elites or cluster at a choke, then on-demand multi target CC while your original singularity is still active trumps a bit more explosion or armor damage from Warp, or more force from Throw.

 

I also think you can make the case that the Warp squaddies might have the edge over the Pull squaddies.

 

By and large people can do what they want though.

[a_mouse]

I was making the case for getting Pull Field before Heavy Throw or Heavy Warp, ie rank 4 of either.  What I am basically saying is that I think in most fights having Heavy Singularity to stick semi-elites or cluster at a choke, then on-demand multi target CC while your original singularity is still active trumps a bit more explosion or armor damage from Warp, or more force from Throw.

This is especially true with a ranged combat approach, where you tend to juggle large groups of enemies and keep them under control rather than taking them out sequentially.
 

I also think you can make the case that the Warp squaddies might have the edge over the Pull squaddies.

I definitely agree with this. For Adept, having the short cool down disabling power on Shep, and then finishing with squad-mate warp (as needed) is superior to relying on a squad-mate for disabling (and then finishing with Shep's warp). On Insanity disabling powers are more important than damage-dealing powers.

[Farangbaa]

I also think you can make the case that the Warp squaddies might have the edge over the Pull squaddies.

 

By and large people can do what they want though.

 

Yes, and yes.

 

Though a squady's pull is, imo, vastly superior to Shepard's because it's instant. (same goes for Liara's singularity)

Their warp is instant too though.

[capn233]

This is especially true with a ranged combat approach, where you tend to juggle large groups of enemies and keep them under control rather than taking them out sequentially.
 

 

I was actually coming at this from a Shotgun Adept run, and I say the more CC the better, and that is what Heavy Singularity + Pull Field gives you relative to going in on either Heavy Warp or Heavy Throw, partly because those two are more dependent on comboing, whereas with the pure CC powers I could stick the most elite unit with the Singularity, then run around and pull more than one unit at once if need be.  It also was a little more fluid when an area defense stripper (Garus, Miranda, or Mordin) were paired with a Warp squaddie, or even just some random CC squaddie (eg Samara or Liara).  Partly this was because I didn't want to go all in on Warp Bombs and wanted more flexibility in the squadmate choice.  I also didn't really want to rely on Stasis spamming, Reave, or Energy Drain.

 

Somewhat related, early there was an opinion that rank 1 pull is just as good as later ranks.  To expound a bit on that as it relates to the above, if you defense strip a single target at a time, maybe that is true.  But if I have means to do otherwise, then Pull Field quickly becomes much better.  If I can pull 2 mooks at once and shoot them at my leisure it is better than pulling one and letting the other shoot me until I pull the second.  If I was a Sentinel or Vanguard this might not matter at all, but it worked well for me, and indeed when I did LOTSB with this character, I tended more towards Pull Spam (with a Singularity already deployed).

 

For the husk missions, or Reaper IFF, there really is no contest, Singularity and Pull can get you through the entire mission (you can Stasis the Scions if you want).  Yes it is "best case" for area CC powers, but I just wanted to mention it since I think Adept is the best class for this mission.  Granted, you are also usually Level 30 by the time you are here making the build progression point a bit moot.

 

If I get around to an ME2 series again, maybe I will redo Shotgun adept, and stick with Miranda and Garrus the whole time since most of this seems to be contentious.

[a_mouse]

early there was an opinion that rank 1 pull is just as good as later ranks.  To expound a bit on that as it relates to the above, if you defense strip a single target at a time, maybe that is true.  But if I have means to do otherwise, then Pull Field quickly becomes much better.  If I can pull 2 mooks at once and shoot them at my leisure it is better than pulling one and letting the other shoot me until I pull the second.

There is no question pull field is better than rank 1 pull (especially if you have defense stripping squad mates!). My only question is whether it is worth 9 points relative to other options. Even with rank 1 stasis as bonus, pull field means giving up higher ranks of throw. Throw is just so darn useful (and fun), not sure I could bring myself to do that!