125 réponses à ce sujet

[TK514]

Because we all know that the Chantry has never committed an act of violence in its history.

 

Hmm... let's see.

 

Well, there was the first Inquisition, which World of Thedas refers to as "a reign of Terror."

 

 

The First Inquisition was not a Chantry organization.  It didn't join the Chantry until the Nevarran Accords, at which point it became the Templar Order.

 

I was speaking purely of Mass Effect, I don't think the Rengade/Paragon system should've existed at all really. There were few situations were Renegade options weren't braindead "kick the puppy" options and when they were the Paragon option was objectively better.

 

Why even have renegade options if their only purpose was to make a playthrough were eveything goes wrong? Why weren't the choices ever treated as something more interesting than "good or bad"

 

BioWare has never done morality very well.  Their idea of 'good' is the second coming, and 'evil' is petty thuggery.  They've rarely managed any nuance or subtlety in either.

[Cat Fancy]

I was speaking purely of Mass Effect, I don't think the Rengade/Paragon system should've existed at all really. There were few situations were Renegade options weren't braindead "kick the puppy" options and when they were the Paragon option was objectively better.

 

Why even have renegade options if their only purpose was to make a playthrough were eveything goes wrong? Why weren't the choices ever treated as something more interesting than "good or bad"

I liked the system in Mass Effect 3 because it was more about mood than morality. My Shepard in ME3 was a paragade because I liked the responses, tasteful scars, and lack of mechanical benefit from fully devoting yourself to either paragon or renegade renegade responses.

 

Not all renegade options ended in everything going wrong, although it was mostly still "better" to go paragon. I'm entirely sure I'd be unhappy if someone asked the question, "do you suppose it would ever be a good idea to commit genocide or help sterilize a people?" with anything other than "no, of course not!" I think that would be kind of a nasty, nihilistic message for a game to have.

[ZeroPhoenix94]

BioWare, Dragon Age: Therapy Edition please.

These people need it.

[Basement Cat]

 

BioWare has never done morality very well.  Their idea of 'good' is the second coming, and 'evil' is petty thuggery.  They've rarely managed any nuance or subtlety in either.

To be fair, there aren't too many companies who manage that well. If you want to play a pragmatic villain, you essentially have to pick the good choices because you know other options would get you in trouble. So, headcannon is the only refuge for smart villains.

[Master Warder Z_]

The First Inquisition was not a Chantry organization.  It didn't join the Chantry until the Nevarran Accords, at which point it became the Templar Order.

 

 

BioWare has never done morality very well.  Their idea of 'good' is the second coming, and 'evil' is petty thuggery.  They've rarely managed any nuance or subtlety in either.

 

I don't know about that i mean in Jade Empire you can Hijack a god and become one yourself, Abandoning the petty trappings of mortality, morality and "awareness" To me though, that's more akin to seeing the world in such chaos because the current Administration of the Heavens is ineffective it cannot successfully govern its own creation, But that's more akin to the philosphy they included in game.

 

Then again even the way of the closed fist, often seemed like just an excuse for randomly murdering, bullying or robbing people, but i do admit i do like the concept of becoming God...

 

Spoiler

https://www.youtube....h?v=rVkrCcvQMao

[Master Warder Z_]

It was still composed entirely of Andrastian hardliners. My issue was with Pateu implying that, because Leliana and Cassandra are members of the Chantry and devotees of Andraste, they are above comitting morally dubious acts.

 

...Andraste waged a war that brought the greatest Empire of the known world to it's knee's.

 

Social Convention shouldn't mean much to those who carry out the will of a god that inspired any one to do such.

[Pierce Miller]

ironlung1975, on 28 Jul 2014 - 4:56 PM, said:

In Dragon age origins you could be a cold Blooded sob.in awakening I remember the guy in the cage who Gives you some sort of artifact. Then I kicked him into a lava pit. In DA 2 I remember giving that half elf kid to a sloth Demon at least I think he was a sloth Demon. Poisoning the ashes with The Dragon Blood. The Dark Ritual was well Um Dark. O yeah the Guy who wants food so I killed him just Because I could. Dragon age inquisition seems more like the Goody Goody Hero story. So No Evil..in this Game and you can quote.me on that

Incorrect, It's already been stated that we can make unsavoury choices that some would consider evil, we've never been able to go full evil before in a bioware game (except Jade empire) because it'd just derail the plot. It's going to have the same amount of evil as previous titles.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Incorrect, It's already been stated that we can make unsavoury choices that some would consider evil, we've never been able to go full evil before in a bioware game (except Jade empire) because it'd just derail the plot. It's going to have the same amount of evil as previous titles.

What do you mean by full evil?

[Icy Magebane]

Incorrect, It's already been stated that we can make unsavoury choices that some would consider evil, we've never been able to go full evil before in a bioware game (except Jade empire) because it'd just derail the plot. It's going to have the same amount of evil as previous titles.

What about KOTOR 1 and 2?  In those games, however, becoming fully immersed in evil was part of the plot... that's just not gonna happen in the DA series IMO.

[Zjarcal]

I'm sure there will be chances to be selfish, cruel, or just plain sadistic at some points, but I've always felt that a full batshit evil personality is contradictory to the kind of story present in most BW games, where you're usually saving the world or a nation, which is kind of stupid for a "lol I wanna watch the world burn" person to be doing anyway.

 

So err, I'm perfectly fine with the devs limiting the chances of "stupid evil for the lolz" and instead offering more gray paths along the way. It's way more interesting like that anyway.

 

P.S.: I also don't think DAO allowed you be "full evil" either anyway, you were still a hero that did way more good than bad. Sure, you can RP that your motivations behind every action were dark or selfish (which is also more interesting than outright choosing "MURDURR"), but that's a different story.

[Dabrikishaw]

In Origins, Mairon Amell was a sadistic, homicidal maniac with no qualms about theft or senseless and random murder or abusing his Maker-given magic to kill his enemies in the most cruel manner possible. (Typically involving Blood Wound+Fire Ball and/or Walking Bomb...the latter was occasionally applied to allies and expendable party members like Alistair or Leliana (He purposefully kept them under-equipped)

I'm just going to skip whatever nonsense is already in this thread and point out that this bit here isn't actually evil, within the context of the choices you can make in Origins.

[umadcommander]

OP confirmed as aerys targaryen

[Pierce Miller]

Icy Magebane, on 28 Jul 2014 - 5:48 PM, said:Icy Magebane, on 28 Jul 2014 - 5:48 PM, said:

What about KOTOR 1 and 2?  In those games, however, becoming fully immersed in evil was part of the plot... that's just not gonna happen in the DA series IMO.

Forgot about those two, the sequel was made by obsidian though if I remember correctly.

[MisterJB]

[Jazzpha]

 

I love Tarquin so much. He's the best. If I ever run an ultra-pragmatist Inquisitor, I'm basing it majorly on him.

[Icy Magebane]

Forgot about those two, the sequel was made by obsidian though if I remember correctly.

Yeah, that's true.  I think it was developed by Obsidian and published by Bioware, similar to the situation with Bethesda and Fallout:NV.  Maybe.

[Vroom Vroom]

Yeah, that's true.  I think it was developed by Obsidian and published by Bioware, similar to the situation with Bethesda and Fallout:NV.  Maybe.

Not quite. KOTOR 1 was made by Bioware and published by LucasArts. KOTOR 2 was made by Obsidian Entertainment and published by LucasArts, Bioware wasn't involved because they were busy working on Jade Empire, although they did recommend Obsidian to LucasArts. KOTOR 3 was in pre-production by Obsidian, but LucasArts cancelled it in favor of SWTOR which was made by Bioware and published by both EA and LucasArts 

[Jazzpha]

 KOTOR 3 was in pre-production by Obsidian, but LucasArts cancelled it in favor of SWTOR which was made by Bioware and published by both EA and LucasArts 

 

And that still makes me sad to this day.

[Xilizhra]

I love Tarquin so much. He's the best. If I ever run an ultra-pragmatist Inquisitor, I'm basing it majorly on him.

Keep in mind that he's a deluded megalomaniac who thinks he's far more important than he really is, thinks that stories should control reality and goes berserk when his ideas are subverted, and isn't the real villain.

[Icy Magebane]

Not quite. KOTOR 1 was made by Bioware and published by LucasArts. KOTOR 2 was made by Obsidian Entertainment and published by LucasArts, Bioware wasn't involved because they were busy working on Jade Empire, although they did recommend Obsidian to LucasArts. KOTOR 3 was in pre-production by Obsidian, but LucasArts cancelled it in favor of SWTOR which was made by Bioware and published by both EA and LucasArts 

Interesting... thanks for clearing that up.  I haven't played that game in years, and back then I didn't really notice who published what.  I assumed KOTOR 2 was a Bioware title.

[TK514]

To be fair, there aren't too many companies who manage that well. If you want to play a pragmatic villain, you essentially have to pick the good choices because you know other options would get you in trouble. So, headcannon is the only refuge for smart villains.

 

True enough.

 

KOTOR 1 particularly irked me back in the day.  I am a Sith Lord, seeking Galactic domination and the ruin of the Jedi....hey, I'm going to stop here and steal from this widow and laugh.  Laugh!  Mwa Ha Ha.  How evil I am for petty theft.  THIS IS HOW YOU CONQUER!

 

The flip side isn't really any better, though.

[Jazzpha]

Keep in mind that he's a deluded megalomaniac who thinks he's far more important than he really is, thinks that stories should control reality and goes berserk when his ideas are subverted, and isn't the real villain.

 

Oh, of course. But that's part of what makes him so compelling. And I'm sure my advisors will love calling me out when I overstep my bounds.

 

Not that I'll always listen to them when they do, of course... but it's the thought that counts.