33 réponses à ce sujet

[Elite Midget]

You know the one.

 

Where if you weren't a Mage yourself than you ended up with no real Healer for the Party with reliable healing abilities on demand after Bethany left. So if you didn't like Anders than you were kinda out of luck, unless you chug those potions whenever they're up, as he was literally the only one left that could act as a dedicated Healer until the end of Act 3 when Bethany appears again.

 

On another note, Spirit Healer denying any Combat abilities is an Abomination. 

 

Hopefully DA:I doesn't go that route and offers healing options between more companions.

[Ina]

Oh thank god, I thought this was going to be another Anders personality and/or sexuality rant thread relating to his DA2 portrayal.  At least this is different and more productive...

 

Anyway did they not say that a dedicated healer mage isn't going to be included this time around? Or something like that? I'm sure someone can correct me on this. I assumed this meant mages can be specced with wide variety of spells and talents that are not just limited to healing. 

[Icy Magebane]

The Spirit Healer spec is out and they revamped healing in general... they said they wanted to make it harder to spam healing, but didn't elaborate.  We also don't know who can use the basic healing spell... but I've heard a rumor that the Group Heal spell is a "Focus" ability now.  Whatever that means.

[Gtdef]

Make it harder to spam healing compared to what game? The problem in DA2 was martyr, not the heal spell with that cooldown.

 

On another note, Spirit Healer denying any Combat abilities is an Abomination.

 

30% upkeep does this anyway. Keeping the toggle active all the time is dumb.

[Elite Midget]

They're changing healing to... Focus? I wonder which classes can do that stuff and having more restrictive healing is troubling as Heals CD in DA2, if you only have 1 healer, was ridiculously long.

 

Don't keep it up all the time but in high intense battles on Nightmare it's very handy. However, with its really long cooldown you're screwed if you need healing, as Heals CD is VERY long, as you cannot toggle it on and off freely.

[Icy Magebane]

Aren't they also getting rid of health regeneration outside of combat?  I know they were at least considering it at one point... but again, I don't know what their final decision on any of this was (except Spirit Healer, which is definitely out).

[Lieutenant Kurin]

There's no dedicated healer spec left, it'll be more like "Creation" in DA2, there is healing, all mages get access to it, greater spells require focus I believe.You get focus by "fighting like a team" (the actual mechanics on that are fuzzy, do you get focus by achieving cross-class combos? Switching characters during play? Spamming 'x'? No one knows.)

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Actually I liked the part where you may end up with a gimped party for excluding someone for personal reasons.

Noone else liked the fact that this gave great realism? You really dont like someone, but need their skillset. This makes for great personal dilemmas!

[uzivatel]

Think of all the 4 rogue parties. Where should they get their healing? Isnt it unfair only mages can heal?

 

Chances are they slap some healing spell on the main character, because chosen one.

[Basement Cat]

Think of all the 4 rogue parties. Where should they get their healing? Isnt it unfair only mages can heal?

 

Chances are they slap some healing spell on the main character, because chosen one.

There are healing potions. Healing magic is not necessary, just convenient.

[Gtdef]

Actually healing magic is more than convenient. The reason is it stacks. If getting a heal forbids you to drink a potion, then it would be convenience. But since it doesn't work that way it's pretty important.

 

Think of it like an offensive bonus rather than defensive. Healing allows the characters to continue attacking instead of running around kiting till potions come off cd. So having an offensive spec'd mage with a single healing spell is always the stronger party than having a pure dps which is doomed to have downtime more often than not.

 

DA2 offers an alternative with fatiguing fog and obscuring mechanics but that's a discussion for another topic and still the setup needs haste to function ^^.

[uzivatel]

There are healing potions. Healing magic is not necessary, just convenient.

 

Next thing youll be telling us we dont have to carry Anders with us everywhere ... ridiculous 

[Sylvius the Mad]

I thought the Anders problem was how he was the actual protagonist of the story, and Hawke was merely a bystander.

[Elite Midget]

I thought the Anders problem was how he was the actual protagonist of the story, and Hawke was merely a bystander.

Anders the protagonist? That's REALLY stretching it.

 

Hawke is the protagonist but it does seem like Anders was meant to be Hawke's love interest, due to all the Malcolm references, and that Hawke wasn't supposed to be a Mage. 

[simpatikool]

Anders was an annoying dip stick. Man I hated his whiney-ness. I did HATE how if I wanted a healer I had to essentially take him. So I did not. When a character rubs me the wrong way, I don't take them, except in mandatory quests.

[Borosini]

Frankly, I'm glad the healer archetype was given to a controversial, opinionated character in DA2. Personally speaking, I've always had the impression that "the healer" is stereotyped as a meek and inoffensive character, and I'm always glad to see trends being bucked.

 

As far as DA:I goes, if healing is implemented in such a way that it is a backbone of how the game functions, I hope all mages have equal access to healing spells. My hunch, however, is that healing will not be such a big deal—there are going to be many different ways to skin that cat, and the "healer" archetype might not even exist.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Anders the protagonist? That's REALLY stretching it.

He was the character who did the things that I wanted my character to do.

I have a slight fear that Dorian will be that character in Inquisition.

In DAO, it was Avernus.


What do you mean, "Hawke wasn't supposed to be a mage"?

[Boss Fog]

He was the character who did the things that I wanted my character to do.

I have a slight fear that Dorian will be that character in Inquisition.

In DAO, it was Avernus.


What do you mean, "Hawke wasn't supposed to be a mage"?

But all of these examples can only pertain to yourself and specific characters; unless every single one of your characters had these goals in mind.  

 

In DA:O, your character's goal (whether you like it or not) is to stop the blight.  Your character may not want to, but they are the ones spearheading that plot point.  Avernus was simply spearheading the plot point your character was the most interested in.  That doesn't make it the central theme to the story though.

 

In DA2, it really seems like Hawke doesn't seem to have a goal other than: get rich.  So yeah, it can be easy to place the weight of the world on someone else's shoulders when your main character doesn't seem to have a clear goal.

[Elite Midget]

Well, Hawke also wanted a life and to restore their family name. Bethany is also a very good reason for Hawke as well due to them needing status, wealth and power to protect Bethany from being forced into the Circle against her will which is something Malcolm tried very hard to ensure never happened. It doesn't have the same ring with Mage Hawke as Mage Hawke is NEVER threatened into going to the Circle, and doesn't seem to care even if Carver points it out, and never seems to be concerned about it AT ALL despite who his/her father is and how Malcolm had trained Bethany to fear and avoid Templars which is something Mage Hawke never does.

 

 

He was the character who did the things that I wanted my character to do.

I have a slight fear that Dorian will be that character in Inquisition.

In DAO, it was Avernus.


What do you mean, "Hawke wasn't supposed to be a mage"?

It simply fits better if Hawke isn't a Mage and Bethany and their Father serve as his/her connection to the Mage Plight. Hawke also doesn't act like he's on the run from Templars while Bethany does, Hawke also displays no understanding or tact in regards to dealing with Templars. Bethany on the other hand does. It also fits better if Hawke, a man/woman with no unique gifts, manages to crawl out from nothing to becoming Champion of Kirkwall.

 

I explain it in more detail here.

 

http://forum.bioware...haracter/page-5

 

Game seems to heavily support a Two-Hander Warror Hawke who romances Anders, especially with how heavily hinted, especially with Bethany, that Anders is very much like Malcolm. Malcolm even gets in trouble for healing others which is something that does get Anders in trouble if he's romanced.

 

FemHawke seems to fit better than ManHawke, in my opinion, due to it being a better reflection of Leandra (FemHawke) and Malcolm (Anders). Gamlen even mentions that you're like Leandra if you romance Anders as Anders is an Apostate like Malcolm was.

 

Hawke being a warrior as well as being a woman greatly explains Carver's huge inferiority complex as he wants to be the protective brother that leads and losing to a woman in feats of strength would be highly embarrassing to him. Not to mention that they were both Malcolm's "little soldiers", and thus would naturally compete, with Hawke being the far more confident and skilled sibling while Bethany, due to her being a Mage, was forced to sit on the sidelines and was never allowed to participate, in the open, alongside her non-Mage siblings due to the constant Templar threat.

 

It simply makes zero sense that Malcolm wouldn't offer the same treatment to Hawke, locking them away pretty much, that he did for Bethany due to the risks of Templars finding them. Bethany also, unlike Hawke, seems to have been taught how to avoid or outsmart Templars which makes sense considering that Bethany would as Malcolm spent a lot of time running from them. Yet Hawke doesn't and that makes zero sense as Malcolm is no fool.

 

Letters also reveal that Hawke was VERY well-known and popular at the village before the Darkspawn thing happen which is something a Mage should actively avoid, due to possibly drawing attention to Templars, as Bethany was taught as such by Malcolm.

[Sylvius the Mad]

But all of these examples can only pertain to yourself and specific characters; unless every single one of your characters had these goals in mind.

In DA:O, your character's goal (whether you like it or not) is to stop the blight. Your character may not want to, but they are the ones spearheading that plot point. Avernus was simply spearheading the plot point your character was the most interested in. That doesn't make it the central theme to the story though.

In DA2, it really seems like Hawke doesn't seem to have a goal other than: get rich. So yeah, it can be easy to place the weight of the world on someone else's shoulders when your main character doesn't seem to have a clear goal.

I don't accept that there is one singular story the game is trying to tell.

And for every PC, it is the player who decides what that character's objectives are. The game doesn't necessarily offer an opportunity to pursue those objectives, but that doesn't stop them from being the character's ultimate goals.

As for Anders being the protagonist, I say that because he, much more than Hawke, took positive steps to achieve something. Hawke didn't ever really try to do anything; things just happened to him.

[Boss Fog]

I don't accept that there is one singular story the game is trying to tell.

And for every PC, it is the player who decides what that character's objectives are. The game doesn't necessarily offer an opportunity to pursue those objectives, but that doesn't stop them from being the character's ultimate goals.

As for Anders being the protagonist, I say that because he, much more than Hawke, took positive steps to achieve something. Hawke didn't ever really try to do anything; things just happened to him.

There isn't a singular story, but there is a main one.  Whether you acknowledge it or not doesn't make it not so.

 

Your character's goal doesn't remove them from the role of the protagonist.  DA:O touches on many stories yes, but it's main story is the Blight.  Your character is the main draw in that story line.

[Elite Midget]

Well, the main story of DA2 was rising to the role of Champion of Kirkwall, restoring the family name, that Idol, and dealing with the rising Mage/Templar conflict.

 

DA2, though, would have REALLY benefited by having Orsino and Meredith enter much earlier for Hawke to interact with as well as an investigation into the contact of the main who murdered Leandra with a confrontation with Orsino.

 

Meredith being shown and interacted with earlier could even show her descent into Madness, due to the idol, as we are shown with Anders slowing losing it over the Acts due to Vengeance. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

There isn't a singular story, but there is a main one. Whether you acknowledge it or not doesn't make it not so.

Nor does you asserting that it exists make it so.

Your character's goal doesn't remove them from the role of the protagonist. DA:O touches on many stories yes, but it's main story is the Blight. Your character is the main draw in that story line.

I think DAO works well in this regard. I completely agree that the Warden in the protagonist of that story.

Though that story isn't always about the Blight.

But with DA2, I have a hard time describing Hawke as the protagonist.

[Boss Fog]

Nor does you asserting that it exists make it so.

 

I'm talking about the intended main story; not what the player and/or character is most interested in.

 

I think DAO works well in this regard. I completely agree that the Warden in the protagonist of that story.

Though that story isn't always about the Blight.

But with DA2, I have a hard time describing Hawke as the protagonist.

 

I understand your point on DA2 since the story technically cannot move forward without other characters driving it forward, mainly Varric and Anders.

[Dominari]

Let's be honest here.  Did you really need a healer for DA2 anyway?