82 réponses à ce sujet

[Mes]

Part of the torture is a makeover....

 

Nooooooooo, not THAT shade!! I wanted rose, not plumb lip color!!

[aTigerslunch]

Too bad....and now to change the other colors so it doesn't match with anything either....muah hahahaha

[TEWR]

What about Ser Alrik's group and who knows how many mages?  Aside from that questline, it was mentioned a few times regarding both male and female mages in DA2... and of course Leliana in her DLC and her personal quest in DA:O...  IMO we've already listed too many examples, but I think there are others.  Seems like overkill.

 

Don't forget the Darkspawn.

 

It seems as if the devs thought the only real way to make women, for want of a better word, suffer is to go straight for one of the most degrading things out there... as if that's the only reason women might want to fight against people.

 

They have overdone rape in... a lot of the material. Not just the games, but the books as well.

 

And I understand to a degree that it's going to happen in this universe, especially to Elves, but damn it all rape is not the only reason women might be distrusting of others if not have serious grievances with them. For Christ's sake, Elven women could have a grievance with how Elves are treated in general.

 

I think Leliana will be partially blind.

Because you cut her down and on your back is your big as hell sword and behind you your companions with their big, obvious weapons and she's like "Do you have weapons?"

 

Ha! That's a good point. Course she still manages to kick ass easily enough... and it'd take some time for her senses to become properly attuned to make up for it.

 

Nah, my guess is that she's going to be the subject of blood magic and relive some of the worst memories she had to endure, along with some general torture at the hands of equipment and regular magic.

 

...probably the rape stuff she'll relive, if you ask me.

 

Honestly, I think Leliana acting the way she does is rather... OOC. Not only has she been tortured in the past, but she advocated a blood mage be spared in the Circle Tower (and possibly Jowan. Can't recall) so it just seems out of touch and needlessly "grimdark edgy material" to make her suddenly anti-mage here, even after being tortured. Yeah, war and torture can change a person, but Leliana's already been down that road and she didn't change as a result of it.

[Little Princess Peach]

just wishfull thinking on Bio's part

[Giant ambush beetle]

Pff what people call torture these days, she didn't appear to be in pain at all, jumped up, killed somebody with heir thighs and started shooting bows afterwards.

A person that really has been tortured can barely walk.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

It is a pretty male dominated society in DA

 

Is this supposed to be an ironic statement, or...?

 

The Chantry is matriarchal, the Divine is a woman.

Rivain is matriarchal.

Empress of Orlais is a woman.

Ferelden can have a queen right now.

Head of the Circle of Magi is a woman.
The Qunari have women running things at home while the men go fighting.

 

The only place in Thedas that can be viewed as somewhat male-dominated is Antiva.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

sooo... if NPCs torture people, can we do this as well? or is it really a 'makeover' torture (she's fighting like, what... few minutes later)?

[HellaciousHutch]

It's also possible to torture someone with armor on because, you know, the game has magic... And, because, you know, she's in a stronghold of magic users...

[Steelcan]

Is this supposed to be an ironic statement, or...?

 

The Chantry is matriarchal, the Divine is a woman.

Rivain is matriarchal.

Empress of Orlais is a woman.

Ferelden can have a queen right now.

Head of the Circle of Magi is a woman.
The Qunari have women running things at home while the men go fighting.

 

The only place in Thedas that can be viewed as somewhat male-dominated is Antiva.

and Tevinter

 

the Black magister is a man

[Lucky Thirteen]

Maybe I just haven't played a female Warden long enough, but for the most part, the only time I've seen gender mentioned in relation to status is in dialogue options.

 

I mean, I mostly do a male city elf, but...?

 

The whole conversation when you first meet Alistair as female warden, he points out how rare it is for women to be in the Wardens. Honestly, that's really the only time I recall running into something like that. I feel like it was early thinking in the world building that's no longer really valid to the lore. I just headcanon the conversation out. It's nearly as bad as in ME2 when female Shepard goes to Archangel's mission and the that Batarian mocks her and tells her where the dancers room is.

 

Anyways, back on the topic of things. Even is Leliana was raped while she was tortured, it still won't be enough pain and suffering done to her for a lot of players to believe she would dare ignore the Inquistor and kill that guy.

 

I get the feeling she could start violently vomiting blood and I think players would still complain that it isn't enough. I'm not a huge Leliana fan, but you people are just frighteningly sadistic with how worried you are about seeing a woman looking really beaten up. Why aren't you worried that in general with the game, the Inquistor and team don't look beaten up after a fight? 

[Nefla]

That's kind of stupid because when I play the Game I will always remember her looking so Fresh and so clean.im about to Blackout till November or whenever the Game comes out.

Do you always have white haired Cassandra in your mind as well?

[Sylvius the Mad]

Do you always have white haired Cassandra in your mind as well?

I do. White haired Cassandra was awesome. I wish they'd kept that look for her.

Maybe we'll be able to mod that in.

[Heimdall]

I don't know if its been said yet, but a dev (I think it was Epler) confirmed that they weren't using her final model for that scene to avoid spoilers.

[Elite Midget]

Is this supposed to be an ironic statement, or...?

 

The Chantry is matriarchal, the Divine is a woman.

Rivain is matriarchal.

Empress of Orlais is a woman.

Ferelden can have a queen right now. That and the one before her to rule was a man, her Uncle, and many didn't support her sudden rise.

Head of the Circle of Magi is a woman.
The Qunari have women running things at home while the men go fighting.

 

The only place in Thedas that can be viewed as somewhat male-dominated is Antiva.

Still male dominated for the most part. Sure there's some women in power but most of the positions of power, from all ladders, are held by men. Especially at the lowest ladders where women are treated pretty poorly or only seen as a meal ticket if they can marry the right man that has deep pockets.

 

Chantry does seem to look down upon men with how only women may rise to certain heights within the Order no matter how competent the a man may or may not be within the order.

 

We know little of that place so we cannot really say how things really work there.

 

Yes, she's an Empress but she's expected to eventually bear a child, son is favored, to an Emperor. If she doesn't wed a man and have a child it would greatly endanger any hold she has on the throne in her later years. Especially with the groups that would see her off the throne and a certain man, who actually has honor unlike the Empress, be on it instead.

 

Ferelden has a King and "maybe" a Queen, I believe.

 

It was a man before and the current Head was very exceptional all things considered.

 

Yet the Arishok is always a man, as far as we known, and women aren't allowed to fight as per the Qun. Thus Men have more rights in the Qun than Women as they have the right and honor of fighting even if it isn't within their station.

 

Furthermore, it's pointed out multiple times throughout the games that it is very uncommon for a woman to rise as the Female Warden and FemHawke eventually are able to do which surprises quite a few as it's supposedly a rare thing. 

 

On Wardens in particular, women typically aren't recruited and with the reveal of Brood Mothers there's even a possibility that Female Wardens will be denied the right and honor of the final walk into the Deep Roads when the Taint has become too much to bear. 

[Basement Cat]

Yet the Arishok is always a man, as far as we known, and women aren't allowed to fight as per the Qun. Thus Men have more rights in the Qun than Women as they have the right and honor of fighting even if it isn't within their station.

 

This is innacurate. The Qun has a very weird philosophy, but it is even in its discrimination. Sten said women are artisans, shopkeepers, farmers or similar. Men are warriors. Spies (like Tallis and Iron Bull) can be either gender. Nobody has 'more' rights in the Qun. Everybody works for the good of everybody.

[Samahl]

The fact that the tale of Aveline is a thing shows that at least one influential power in Thedas has patriarchal roots. I'd say overall, sexism is pretty inconsistently represented in DA.

[x Raizer x]

Hopefully Lelliana will show some wear and tear during that scene in the full game.  Although I doubt I'll end up having that situation occur.  I tend to be more careful than to let one of my advisers end up in that kind of situation.

 

Sometimes things don't go according to plan, though.

[Icy Magebane]

Anyways, back on the topic of things. Even is Leliana was raped while she was tortured, it still won't be enough pain and suffering done to her for a lot of players to believe she would dare ignore the Inquistor and kill that guy.

 

I get the feeling she could start violently vomiting blood and I think players would still complain that it isn't enough. I'm not a huge Leliana fan, but you people are just frighteningly sadistic with how worried you are about seeing a woman looking really beaten up. Why aren't you worried that in general with the game, the Inquistor and team don't look beaten up after a fight? 

Actually, the topic is about the lack of physical evidence that she was tortured, which has already been addressed (Bioware altered the scene to avoid spoilers). 

 

Also, the fans didn't invent this scene in the first place.  I'd prefer it if she wasn't tortured, but if she was, I'd rather it look realistic (which it probably will, again, this is not the final version of the scene).  IMO sugar coating torture means that a writer shouldn't have tried to include it in the first place...  do it right, or don't do it.  For me it's that simple.

[PsychoBlonde]

False. It is entirely possible to torture someone with said someone's armor on.
For legal reasons, this is all I shall say.

 

Two words. Fire ants.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Is this supposed to be an ironic statement, or...?

 

The Chantry is matriarchal, the Divine is a woman.

Rivain is matriarchal.

Empress of Orlais is a woman.

Ferelden can have a queen right now.

Head of the Circle of Magi is a woman.
The Qunari have women running things at home while the men go fighting.

 

The only place in Thedas that can be viewed as somewhat male-dominated is Antiva.

nope Antiva is female dominated

 

the "male-dominated" kingdoms is Nevarra and  Tevinter(archons and "black" divines is always males)

[Elite Midget]

Aveline's tale wasn't all grand. She was an ugly baby who was abandoned, raised by Elves, and defeated some men in a tournament ad than was killed by a man who was embarrassed that he lost to some woman. He was never punished for his actions.

 

Furthermore it was Prince Freyan, a man, that abolished the law that prevented women from undergoing knighthood and despite years later women are still a huge minority within the Order.

 

Another thing is that Aveline never set out to get the Law abolished, she simply wanted to compete and died for it by a man with a short temper. If Prince Freyan wasn't an honorable man but was like the average Orlesian Noble than nothing would have changed. 

 

Aveline wasn't even regarded as much of anything until after Prince Freyan, when he came to rule, did what he did.

 

This is innacurate. The Qun has a very weird philosophy, but it is even in its discrimination. Sten said women are artisans, shopkeepers, farmers or similar. Men are warriors. Spies (like Tallis and Iron Bull) can be either gender. Nobody has 'more' rights in the Qun. Everybody works for the good of everybody.

However, they aren't allowed to fight as the men do. 

 

Spies aren't regarded as warriors and yes, men do have more rights as they have more choice. Furthermore men can do those things that the women can, especially the more frail elves or humans that convert to the Qun. 

[Basement Cat]

Aveline's tale wasn't all grand. She was an ugly baby who was abandoned, raised by Elves, and defeated some men in a tournament ad than was killed by a man who was embarrassed that he lost to some woman. He was never punished for his actions.

 

Furthermore it was Prince Freyan, a man, that abolished the law that prevented women from undergoing knighthood and despite years later women are still a huge minority within the Order.

 

Another thing is that Aveline never set out to get the Law abolished, she simply wanted to compete and died for it by a man with a short temper. If Prince Freyan wasn't an honorable man but was like the average Orlesian Noble than nothing would have changed. 

 

Aveline wasn't even regarded as much of anything until after Prince Freyan, when he came to rule, did what he did.

 

However, they aren't allowed to fight as the men do. 

 

Spies aren't regarded as warriors and yes, men do have more rights as they have more choice. Furthermore men can do those things that the women can, especially the more frail elves or humans that convert to the Qun. 

Nobody has a choice in the Qun. That's one of the big points. Your puspose is given, not chosen.

[Samahl]

Aveline's tale wasn't all grand.

 

I wasn't disagreeing with you. The fact that her story was remarkable at all demonstrates that Orlais, again, has patriarchal roots.

 

By the way, to all those arguing that because a nation has a female ruler, it can't be sexist/male-dominated, surely you've heard of Queen Elizabeth I?

 

As for the Qunari, I wouldn't necessarily say their society is slanted in favor of men, because all genders are forced into the roles they're assigned. As far as I can tell, women have rights that men don't, and vice versa (and let's not even get into potential non-binary genders, because the Qun probably doesn't acknowledge those either).

[aTigerslunch]

Queen Elizabeth I who? 

 

 

Some people under torture, depending also how long she been there, could muster a surprise strength, a sudden burst of energy to do something. However, once spent that, again depending on how long been there, last bit of energy, may not have enough to do much more. I honestly found her twisting his head awesome.   Go Leliana!   But she has been tortured before so its possible she can resist a lot too, considering how skilled I got her, she should handle a lot anyways.

[Gervaise]

For the record the type of torture they are using is "Hanging by the hands".   It was invented by Topcliffe, the chief Torturer of Elizabeth I.    Done correctly it is excruciating; effectively it mimics crucifixion without the nails.   The reason he invented it was because it did inflict the maximum pain without any visible evidence of it, so avoiding the embarrassing appearance of people having been tortured at their trials.  Racking people might result in dislocated and broken limbs and rape (which he did indulge in) could result in pregnancy which might also be rather apparent at the trial.      However, it could and did on occasion cause internal injury, people coughing up blood, etc.   If kept hanging too long the person would pass out and then have to be taken down in order to revive them.   If not taken down they would die.    That said, people who were tortured for any length of time lost the immediate use of their hands and could not even feed themselves, much less hold a weapon.

 

So if Leliana has been tortured and can stand up, fight and hold a bow only a short while after, then the Inquisitor must have interrupted the interrogation only a very short time after it started.    So there would be no chance of internal injury, no coughing up of blood and no visible sign of torture.