228 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Considering the supposed value of the information stored within each reaper, it would probably have made more sense if the "reapers" themselves were simply their avatars designed to subdue and harvest the population, while the vulnerable vessels remained in dark space. To have the genetic vaults also be the battleships is evidence enough that the Catalyst was probably hitting the malware pretty hard.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

 
These aren't the old days, though, since it wouldn't be a sneak attack on the Citadel and such a full-frontal assault would effectively "announce" their arrival to the entire galaxy before the relays were flipped off. "Shepard was right: the Reapers are real, and have arrived. Citadel under attack, likely to fall. Download all accessible information (on Sovereign, the Collectors, Project Rho and the Alpha Relay) and prepare for hell".
 
Without the relays active, it would take an immense amount of time to get between systems, allowing each one a grace period to prepare with the knowledge that there are no alternatives and a very real threat on its way. While none of them would likely be successful, even with years or decades to get ready, this would significantly deplete the Reapers numbers and make this a far more taxing harvest for all involved ... and would also lead to Maker knows what kinds of suicidal repercussions, too.  
 
Preserving the false sense of security on the Citadel (even after the indoctrinated servant Cerberus coup attempt) and allowing the relays to remain open for their expedited travel ended up helping the Reapers and their overall agenda in several ways, since it still afforded them some element of surprise and since they believed the Crucible wasn't a problem in this cycle.  
 
At the very least, there are benefits and hindrances to either scenario, enough to lean toward this one so the trilogy could end with a game that closes out the Reaper threat.

 

Your logic is flawed. They came in and wiped out the Batarians for fun and games. No one took Shepard seriously after Arrival. They locked up Shepard for six months. The reapers could have gone straight from Khar'shan to the Citadel. Bye bye galaxy. I don't think they could have closed the Citadel arms in time.

[themikefest]

They couldn't close the arms in time to prevent Sovereign from getting inside. What makes you think the Citadel forces will stop a bunch of reapers from getting inside before the arms close?

[KaiserShep]

The reapers don't have to slowly approach from the widow nebula's relay. They could just as easily drop out of FTL right next to the Citadel and get to work before any resistance has time to react.

[dreamgazer]

Your logic is flawed. They came in and wiped out the Batarians for fun and games. No one took Shepard seriously after Arrival. They locked up Shepard for six months. The reapers could have gone straight from Khar'shan to the Citadel. Bye bye galaxy. I don't think they could have closed the Citadel arms in time.

A direct attack on the Citadel would be a different story than Arrival (which was weighed down by the batarians' grievances), and would drastically alter the variables with its significance. No matter the speed of the Citadel defense's response time, info about its invasion would be dispatched before the Reapers manage to shut down the relays. Years would pass after the power-down, planets would prepare for their coming after the warning, and thus the situation becomes a very different animal that will result in far more death, destruction, and drained resources. At least with the relays active and the relative security of the Citadel remaining intact, the Reapers can freely and quickly move about the galaxy and surprise the largely unprepared planets.

Remember, the Reapers have been sneaking through the Citadel relay for countless cycles. There's a reason for that.

[ImaginaryMatter]

A direct attack on the Citadel would be a different story than Arrival (which was weighed down by the batarians' grievances), and would drastically alter the variables with its significance. No matter the speed of the Citadel defense's response time, info about its invasion would be dispatched before the Reapers manage to shut down the relays. Years would pass after the power-down, planets would prepare for their coming after the warning, and thus the situation becomes a very different animal that will result in far more death, destruction, and drained resources. At least with the relays active and the relative security of the Citadel remaining intact, the Reapers can freely and quickly move about the galaxy and surprise the largely unprepared planets.

Remember, the Reapers have been sneaking through the Citadel relay for countless cycles. There's a reason for that.

 

I was always under the impression that the control the Citadel had over the network wasn't a universal on and off button but instead operated the Relays individually.

[themikefest]

It could be possible that the signal that the Protheans used in their cycle, prevented the Citadel from turning the relays on/off as well as it prevented the reapers from using the Citadel forcing them to take the scenic route to the galaxy. So the reapers decided to ignore the Citadel and go straight for the homeworlds.

[Iakus]

A direct attack on the Citadel would be a different story than Arrival (which was weighed down by the batarians' grievances), and would drastically alter the variables with its significance. No matter the speed of the Citadel defense's response time, info about its invasion would be dispatched before the Reapers manage to shut down the relays. Years would pass after the power-down, planets would prepare for their coming after the warning, and thus the situation becomes a very different animal that will result in far more death, destruction, and drained resources. At least with the relays active and the relative security of the Citadel remaining intact, the Reapers can freely and quickly move about the galaxy and surprise the largely unprepared planets.

Remember, the Reapers have been sneaking through the Citadel relay for countless cycles. There's a reason for that.

Or they could turn off, say, all the relays except the path to Thessia.  Or Palaven.  Or Tuchanka.  Move about as they wish and deny the ability to reinforce each other.  

 

Or, say, build a Crucible

 

The Reaping goes that much easier when each system stands essentially alone.

[dreamgazer]

Or they could turn off, say, all the relays except the path to Thessia.  Or Palaven.  Or Tuchanka.  Move about as they wish and deny the ability to reinforce each other.

Unless they're all being taken on at once---thus leaving the relay network open---the others outside these paths will have uninterrupted time to desperately prepare and the knowledge that they need to prepare due to the blatancy of this Citadel attack (and they'll be suspicious of their dead relay). How long do the Reapers wait to flip from one harvest path to the next, and do they run the risk of not being thorough to cut the outer galaxy's potential preparation time? 

Again, they won't win and the Reapers know they won't win if they're taken on individually, but the cut-off systems' preparations could cost them quite a bit, especially if the asari, turians, or even humans---or, hell, all of them---devolve into suicidal or isolationist mindsets. As opposed to (relatively) quickly hitting the spread-out planets with shock and awe and gradually cleaning up the mess over the next century. This plan was a stone's throw away from working, too, if it weren't for the Crucible idea that they arrogantly believed was eradicated.

[themikefest]

Why did they avoid the Citadel?

 

They forgot to make that left turn at Albuquerque

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=e8TUwHTfOOU

[Iakus]

Unless they're all being taken on at once---thus leaving the relay network open---the others outside these paths will have uninterrupted time to desperately prepare and the knowledge that they need to prepare due to the blatancy of this Citadel attack (and they'll be suspicious of their dead relay). How long do the Reapers wait to flip from one harvest path to the next, and do they run the risk of not being thorough to cut the outer galaxy's potential preparation time? 

Again, they won't win and the Reapers know they won't win if they're taken on individually, but the cut-off systems' preparations could cost them quite a bit, especially if the asari, turians, or even humans---or, hell, all of them---devolve into suicidal or isolationist mindsets. As opposed to (relatively) quickly hitting the spread-out planets with shock and awe and gradually cleaning up the mess over the next century. This plan was a stone's throw away from working, too, if it weren't for the Crucible idea that they arrogantly believed was eradicated.

Except this is not how they've done past cycles:  Hit the Citadel, "assume direct control" of the relays, and pick off each system over the next couple of centuries.  Distances between systems mean they can't support each other while the Reapers can.  

 

That this time the galaxy has a little more lead time in knowing what's happening is pointless:  They spent no real time preparing.  And cut off from the rest of the galaxy will mean they will be very limited in what they can do to prepare. They'll be limited to whatever's in-system or what's very close-by.

 

Of course, with tens of thousands of Reapers and possibly hundreds of thousands of destroyers, why the entire galaxy didn't fall within a week, Citadel or no, is still a mystery.

[AlanC9]

They couldn't close the arms in time to prevent Sovereign from getting inside. What makes you think the Citadel forces will stop a bunch of reapers from getting inside before the arms close?

Wait a minute. Someone check the sequence here. Didn't Saren already have control over the station?

[AlanC9]

Of course, with tens of thousands of Reapers and possibly hundreds of thousands of destroyers, why the entire galaxy didn't fall within a week, Citadel or no, is still a mystery.

Only if one assumes that there actually are tens of thousands of Reapers. Looks to me like the thing CV advocates wanted to happen actually did happen, and only a tiny fraction of the Reapers could make the journey.

[themikefest]

Wait a minute. Someone check the sequence here. Didn't Saren already have control over the station?

True. So that's my bad. Still doesn't explain how the Citadel forces would stop the reapers from taking over the Citadel.

[Iakus]

Only if one assumes that there actually are tens of thousands of Reapers. Looks to me like the thing CV advocates wanted to happen actually did happen, and only a tiny fraction of the Reapers could make the journey.

 

Oh, is this buried in another codex entry, that only 1% of the Reapers are believed to have made it into the galaxy?

 

Heck my tens of thousands goes by the assertion that the Reapers have been kicking around for a billion years.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

So if only 1% actually made it, that means most of the destroyers got toasted along the way, and this was pretty much like an early cycle.

 

I've got a new theory: Temper Tantrum Theory. - Starbrat had a temper tantrum and threw his toys in the galaxy. He said, "I quit." He wanted to go home. The only ones he was interested in fighting were Leviathans. He only said what he said about control so you'd pick it. Synthesis was his softie moment when he smashed one of his toys with an organic and it went splat green.

[Excella Gionne]

The Sol System isn't that far from the Serpent Nebula, and because the Relays are still working, they could have gone to the Citadel and destroyed everything, thus, making the Crucible completely pointless. But this is a game about heroes, and we all know enemies waste too much time. Precious time they could have used to end their threats like every other movie. "A bullet in the head solves everything." Even FemShep is smarter. But no, the Reapers had to wait until someone gave them the heads up that the Citadel was going to be used as part of a plan to annihilate them and then they go and take the Ctiadel. 

[KaiserShep]

Sluggard: I say we take the Citadel now! There is nothing to stop us!

 

Harbinger: No. Let them have their hub world. Let the game continue.

[Excella Gionne]

Sluggard: I say we take the Citadel now! There is nothing to stop us!

 

Harbinger: No. Let them have their hub world. Let the game continue.

That reminds me of Joker's little scenario he makes up just so the asari bartender would comp his drinks.

 

The Reapers had enough time invade every system and cluster available out there besides the Serpent Nebula? And it only took them a couple of months till they went and took the Citadel back. It's like they were intentionally letting us build the Crucible, but that is another interesting theory to bring up though. Is the Crucible a device merely used to lure?

[SporkFu]

The protheans fought the reapers for over a hundred years without control of the citadel from the beginning. In just months our war harvest was all over but the cleanup. I'm not saying the reapers can't adapt to new circumstances or anything, but we made them go to plan B. I think they should've had a tougher time in our cycle. Maybe the catalyst actually wanted to find out if we could make use of the crucible, since no one else had ever gotten as close as we did, so he leashed the reapers. 

 

This idea makes me think about the protheans a little bit. Javik tells shep that the protheans never finished the crucible. They also knew the citadel was the catalyst, but they lost control of it. So... was it the original Ilos plan to use the conduit to take back the citadel, join it to the crucible and defeat the reapers? When only a handful were re-awakened by Vigil, did they come up with a plan B of their own, and make it possible for the next cycle to retain control of the citadel long enough to make the original idea work? 

[Iakus]

The protheans fought the reapers for over a hundred years without control of the citadel from the beginning. In just months our war harvest was all over but the cleanup. I'm not saying the reapers can't adapt to new circumstances or anything, but we made them go to plan B. I think they should've had a tougher time in our cycle. Maybe the catalyst actually wanted to find out if we could make use of the crucible, since no one else had ever gotten as close as we did, so he leashed the reapers. 

 

This idea makes me think about the protheans a little bit. Javik tells shep that the protheans never finished the crucible. They also knew the citadel was the catalyst, but they lost control of it. So... was it the original Ilos plan to use the conduit to take back the citadel, join it to the crucible and defeat the reapers? When only a handful were re-awakened by Vigil, did they come up with a plan B of their own, and make it possible for the next cycle to retain control of the citadel long enough to make the original idea work? 

 

The Protheans were pretty ineffective at fighting the Reapers though.  I suspect it was only a "war" in that individual systems each had their own military assets.  Liara even tells Shepard that it could take a century for the Reapers to harvest the galaxy in this cycle.  The difference here being the galaxy of this cycle is pooling all their assets into one major punch, rather than the Protheans being divided and isolated, slowly bleeding out.

[SporkFu]

The Protheans were pretty ineffective at fighting the Reapers though.  I suspect it was only a "war" in that individual systems each had their own military assets.  Liara even tells Shepard that it could take a century for the Reapers to harvest the galaxy in this cycle.  The difference here being the galaxy of this cycle is pooling all their assets into one major punch, rather than the Protheans being divided and isolated, slowly bleeding out.

Ah, but if we had lost the citadel in the very beginning, like the protheans did, would our cycle have been able to fight for as long as they did? I wonder about that. 

[Excella Gionne]

The protheans fought the reapers for over a hundred years without control of the citadel from the beginning. In just months our war harvest was all over but the cleanup. I'm not saying the reapers can't adapt to new circumstances or anything, but we made them go to plan B. I think they should've had a tougher time in our cycle. Maybe the catalyst actually wanted to find out if we could make use of the crucible, since no one else had ever gotten as close as we did, so he leashed the reapers. 

 

This idea makes me think about the protheans a little bit. Javik tells shep that the protheans never finished the crucible. They also knew the citadel was the catalyst, but they lost control of it. So... was it the original Ilos plan to use the conduit to take back the citadel, join it to the crucible and defeat the reapers? When only a handful were re-awakened by Vigil, did they come up with a plan B of their own, and make it possible for the next cycle to retain control of the citadel long enough to make the original idea work? 

Well, from my point of view, it seems the games were written as time went by other than it being pre-written. I believe they had different writers for each of the games. Linking the Crucible with ME1 events make little sense to a degree.

[SporkFu]

Well, from my point of view, it seems the games were written as time went by other than it being pre-written. I believe they had different writers for each of the games. Linking the Crucible with ME1 events make little sense to a degree.

But.. but... I want to speculate 

[Excella Gionne]

But.. but... I want to speculate 

Hehehe. Speculation is for salarians.