180 réponses à ce sujet

[Fidite Nemini]

If Seath the Scaleless from Dark Souls is a Dragon, anything goes.

Hell Phalanx from SOTC is also considered a Dragon!

 

The difference is pretty clear:

 

A dragon has six extremeties. Two legs, two arms (or another two legs, depending on how you look at it) and two wings.

 

A wyvern has four extremeties. Two legs and two winged arms.

 

Smaug is supposed to be a dragon (firewyrm, which is NOT a wyvern depite how alike the words may seem, as wyrms are another name for the mythical european dragons) and the official cover art from Tolkien clearly shows Smaug having seperate wings and arms/front legs:

 

 

 

 

These days a good number of people apparently do not care for those differences. They see a big reptilian'ish creature with wings and go "LOOK, A DRAGON!!!".

[TheClonesLegacy]

Shenron and many other Asian Dragons don't have wings.

Don't be so rigid with your Dragons dude.

 

I mean, Trogdor the Burnator is also Dragon, and he has only one big beefy arm, two tiny legs and two puny wings.

[Fidite Nemini]

Shenron and many other Asian Dragons don't have wings.

Don't be so rigid with your Dragons dude.

 

 

Asian dragons =/= european dragons. Tolkien explicitely referred to wyrms, meaning the european dragon is the scale to compare to (pun intended).

 

I suppose my earlier post was not clear that I was talking about the european dragon, so that is my mistake in this misunderstanding. But I do not intend to write up a book on the origin of dragons for every different culture (european dragons, nordic dragons, asian dragons, indian dragons, persian dragons, greek dragons, lots of dragons).

 

I'll stick to:

Tolkien wrote a european dragon. PJ envisioned Smaug as a not-european dragon. Whether he doesn't know the difference, or thought it would look cooler his way, I don't know and don't care.

[TheClonesLegacy]

Asian dragons =/= european dragons. Tolkien explicitely referred to wyrms, meaning the european dragon is the scale to compare to (pun intended).

 

I suppose my earlier post was not clear that I was talking about the european dragon, so that is my mistake in this misunderstanding. But I do not intend to write up a book on the origin of dragons for every different culture (european dragons, nordic dragons, asian dragons, indian dragons, persian dragons, greek dragons, lots of dragons).

 

I'll stick to:

Tolkien wrote a european dragon. PJ envisioned Smaug as a not-european dragon. Whether he doesn't know the difference, or thought it would look cooler his way, I don't know and don't care.

If you didn't care you wouldn't be so adamant about it.

They changed the design from Unexpected Journey to Desolation btw.

[Fidite Nemini]

If you didn't care you wouldn't be so adamant about it.

 

I care that it's wrong. I don't care why he made it wrong.

[TheClonesLegacy]

I care that it's wrong. I don't care why he made it wrong.

So here's the real question, a true difficult one.

Is King Ghidorah a Dragon by your definition?

I mean, Death Ghidorah and Kaiser Ghidorah are definitely, but the OG?

Spoiler

[Fidite Nemini]

In-universe, Ghidora comes from space and can thus not be defined against human mythology.

 

Though if you want me to comment on it from an out-of-universe perspective, then I'd say the envisioning for King Ghidorah was deliberately chosen to look alien to cement the impression to match the movie's plot and would thus not look like the standard asian dragon. It is a visual amalgation of various dragon forms, likely based mostly on the greek Hydra with its distinctive image of multiple heads.

 

 

And now, let's please stop with definition debates. I made my point and I stand by it.

[EarthboundNess]

If you didn't care you wouldn't be so adamant about it.

They changed the design from Unexpected Journey to Desolation btw.

 

Its so odd making design changes just like that. They even changed to his newer design in the extended edition of Unexpected Journey. 

[TheClonesLegacy]

Its so odd making design changes just like that. They even changed to his newer design in the extended edition of Unexpected Journey. 

I noticed that.

It's weird, but maybe it was to further differentiate from Kitty Smaug from the Animated film.

Not that Kitty Smaug is a bad design, far from it. But it is a weird interpretation.

[Fidite Nemini]

I noticed that.

It's weird, but maybe it was to further differentiate from Kitty Smaug from the Animated film.

Not that Kitty Smaug is a bad design, far from it. But it is a weird interpretation.

 

Kitty Smaug ... okay, wait a second.

 

 

 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Oh boy, I have heard that those animated LotR movies were a bit whack at times, but this really punts the crown across the fields. I halfmindedly wonder why he isn't sitting on a pile of string balls.

Someone really took the whole children's book theme to his/her heart with this one. I am actually somewhat sad that I wouldn't be able to appreciate this version do to my many inconvenient adult bias.

 

A big kitty dragon. LOL

[TheClonesLegacy]

Kitty Smaug ... okay, wait a second.

 

 

 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Oh boy, I have heard that those animated LotR movies were a bit whack at times, but this really punts the crown across the fields. I halfmindedly wonder why he isn't sitting on a pile of string balls.

It's not actually that bad.

Of the Animated Tolkien films, The Hobbit is probably the best overall.

[Fidite Nemini]

It's not actually that bad.

Of the Animated Tolkien films, The Hobbit is probably the best overall.

 

I've only seen a longer part of the LotR animated movie, the one where they used real actors and then painted the footage over to make it look animated.

 

That was in school though and now more than a decade past, so I don't remember much apart from it looking like I was tripping at the time I watched it.

[TheClonesLegacy]

I've only seen a longer part of the LotR animated movie, the one where they used real actors and then painted the footage over to make it look animated.

 

That was in school though and now more than a decade past, so I don't remember much apart from it looking like I was tripping at the time I watched it.

Oh yeah...Bakshis...

That film is so dry I've never been able to sit through it all.

 

Also Rotoscoped animation is pure evil.

[AventuroLegendary]

Kitty Smaug ... okay, wait a second.

 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Oh boy, I have heard that those animated LotR movies were a bit whack at times, but this really punts the crown across the fields. I halfmindedly wonder why he isn't sitting on a pile of string balls.

Someone really took the whole children's book theme to his/her heart with this one. I am actually somewhat sad that I wouldn't be able to appreciate this version do to my many inconvenient adult bias.

 

A big kitty dragon. LOL

 

It gets better. Orcs are frog people with antlers, Gollum is some fish-amphibian abomination and the Mirkwood spiders have bunny ears.

 

If you watched Rankin-Bass's other Tolkien film, RotK, you'd also witness Skeletor Witch-King and singing Orcs (Admittedly, the best part of the film).

[Volourn]

Saw it. Loved it. Better than I thought it would be/ Hobbit > LOTR

 

And, why? DWARVES.

[TheClonesLegacy]

It gets better. Orcs are frog people with antlers, Gollum is some fish-amphibian abomination and the Mirkwood spiders have bunny ears.

 

If you watched Rankin-Bass's other Tolkien film, RotK, you'd also witness Skeletor Witch-King and singing Orcs (Admittedly, the best part of the film).

[Eternal Phoenix]

It gets better. Orcs are frog people with antlers, Gollum is some fish-amphibian abomination and the Mirkwood spiders have bunny ears.

 

If you watched Rankin-Bass's other Tolkien film, RotK, you'd also witness Skeletor Witch-King and singing Orcs (Admittedly, the best part of the film).

 

What about in the animated Hobbit prequel where elves look like deformed goblins with long legs?

 

 

[Eternal Phoenix]

Saw the film yesterday and I thought it was brilliant. It wasn't just war scenes, there was still plenty of plot and everything was tied together and resolved by the end. The action scenes were brilliant too.

 

In conclusion, I have to say that I like The Hobbit trilogy better than the LOTR trilogy.

[TheClonesLegacy]

I was first introduced to that at like three. When I watched the movie at five I completely forgot about Bakshi's.

 

It's still a whole lot better than any other attempt at Tolkein pre-jackson and it follows the books really well.

 

Too bad it didn't get a RoTK.

 

P.S

 

Offtopic here, but I really hope people understand that the Hobbit in one movie or even two would have been a total disaster.

I prefer the Rakin/Bass films honestly. Because of the Jazzy songs and Bakshis animation always makes me want to claw my eyes out, I can't watch Wizards for that reason too.

 

The thing about The Hobbit is despite not being a long book.

Alot of stuff happens in it, so any attempt to cram it into one movie would have it speed along like Sanic on Cocaine.

Even the animated film dropped Beorn and such.

[Naughty Bear]

Eagles solve everything.

 

Have a problem? Eagles.

 

Need a poo? Eagles.

 

Struggling with homework? Eagles.

 

Those ****** eagles, they ruin everything.

[Isichar]

 

 

OoooOOoOoooOO

 

My uncle had a huge painting of this up on his wall when I was younger before I could even read. I use to think it was the coolest thing ever

[TheClonesLegacy]

Speaking of Eagles.

 

Seriously, the Silmarillion would just be too expensive to produce.

 

Everything was bigger then.

 

Dragons, Balrog's, Hour's giant-ass balls, Spiders and yes... Eagles.

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus.

 

Tolkien just went all out with the Silmarillion, he's like

 

"I wonder what I could do to make this battle more epic than it already is? Oh, right, MOTHERF*CKING DRAGONS!"

 

But not just one, oh no.

 

Melkor kept hundreds of them in his GIANT-ASS fortress.

I never read the Simarillion.

My dad doesn't make it sound very interesting. Now I want to read it.

 

Thanks alot Sim, you're outdoing my dad.