The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

#176
TheLittleBird

Posté 23 décembre 2014 - 12:23

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I don't like the scene any more than you do, but if I remember correctly, Aragorn was the one to deliver Gollum to Thranduil. I think it's fair to assume that Thranduil is aware of who the man bringing the creature is, and so would Legolas. Going from that, it's not entirely impossible that the two had interacted in some shape or form.

That, obviously, doesn't explain what the elder blondie said to his son. Just figured I'd mention it.

But that was after the events of the Hobbit, and I just understood it as Gandalf being the one connecting Aragorn and Thranduil. As in, he tells Aragorn to come to Mirkwood and that's the first time he and the king meet, really. Of course it's plausible that he then also meets Legolas, but like I said, that's after the Hobbit. I guess Thranduil just trusts Gandalf well enough that he'd let a stranger, for that is what Aragorn is to him, come to Mirkwood.

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#177
Guest_simfamUP_*

Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 03:53

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Oh, they do. But in the book, it is said that even with the Eagles, they find themselves outnumbered and the real deus ex machina is Beorn, who completely wrecks the goblin/orc ranks before carrying Thorin to safety (after he was mortally wounded) and then coming back, "his wrath doubled", and just annihilates Bolg and his personal guard- because of course, in the book Azog was already long dead.

It's weird, though, how PJ has decided to divide the attention between characters. Thorin seems more and more like the main character, while Bilbo is just there (I guess this is sort of true of Aragorn and Frodo, respectively, as well in their movies). Legolas and Thranduil get a lot of attention, which I don't really have a problem with. Same with Bard. He really deserved a bit more than he got in the book.

But then there's Alfrid. Ugh. The only good thing I can say about Alfrid is that he didn't reach Jar Jar Binks levels of annoyance. But he was pretty close. C'mon, PJ... why the focus on Alfrid? Why does he have to be the person interacting with Bard a lot of the time, especially on the shores of the Lake? The Master did a fine job there in the book, and he'd have been fine for it in the movie as well. Then you don't have to focus on some dumb character in Dale either. Don't get me started on his final scene in the movie.

Like you said before, Sim, TaurielxKili was a waste of time. I really liked Tauriel, but their romance could've been given up in favour of fleshing out characters from the book. Like Beorn, who was severely underused, as I said before. Or hell, even make the Lord of the Eagles a character. The dragon talks... so why can't he? Could immediately have shut up the "Why didn't they just fly them all the way to the Mountain?"-complaints that I've read online as well. Because there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for it in the book.

Well, in the end.

Animals kick ass.

Don't know about that though. Thorin got the attention he needed because he was more of an ass-hat in the book, Bilbo developed quite nicely. I usually don't like massive transitions and bam "development." It's usually too sudden and out of place. Bilbo remained quirky whilst building in character at the same time like he should.

Guess BOFTA had more attention on Thorin, though. Which again,is good, because in the books he's rubbish.

Alfrid was dumb, yeah. But not Jar Jar dumb. So that's ai'ght.

As for Eagle talking... think it was for consistency in-movie. Eagles didn't talk in the book. Besides, it makes it a whole lot more...err... weird? Can't recall if Thorondor talked or not. I know Huan did, but could only talk three times before he died.

Oh, and again, TXKili is a waste of time and stupid. Not that elves falling in love with Dwarves is err...wrong? It's never happened (apart from Gimli having the hots for Galadriel) but yeah... just poorly handled and a waste of time.

Well...

see, here we have a moment between Legolas and his dad, and it's supposed to be some sort of goodbye that really shows off the 'end' of their relationship in the trilogy. But it's completely overshadowed by this:

"Hey dad, I'm off. I don't know where to though."

"Go North. Visit the Dunedain. There is this kid, Aragorn, who I think will be awesome. He's ten by the way but whatever." (Yes, I just Googled the timeline and wikipedia says Aragorn should be 10 during he Battle of Five Armies).

But... how? I mean, Thranduil could have just turned straight to the camera and gone: "You know, the guy that becomes king in The Return of the King, THAT MOVIE THAT WON LIKE 11 OSCARS." Might as well. Completely took me out of the movie, and it felt weird because as far as I know, Legolas never really came into contact with Aragorn pre-Fellowship. So it makes zero sense to me.
I've always understood the complaints about the ties to the LotR-trilogy, but I found those to be nicely done, for the most part. The mention of Gimli in DoM felt like it could happen, Legolas being there is understandable considering his home and dad are there as well, and the scene with Bilbo and Frodo at the start of AUJ was actually quite great. But this... it's like PJ wasn't even trying.

Oh and the complaint in question was that Hobbits were "supposed to be nice" and stuff. Guess they never really heard of the Sackville-Bagginses, hahaha. Or maybe they didn't read the book - or just forgot about the auction. But I'm really glad they put it into the movie. I was kind of fearing they'd do what they did to the return to the Shire in RotK and completely skip over it, basically. Glad to see they didn't, because it made for a great Bilbo scene. Which the movie didn't have enough of anyway.

Errr... still don't know. I guess it's subjective that one. I liked it.

Somebody mentioned that Thranduil's "mother" comment was really him talking about himself. Well, whatever. If anything came up out of nowhere it was that. Nobody mentioned his mum until like 20min before the end xD

Oh and Legolas apparently knows Aragorn pre-fellow. At least in-movie because he knows his name, so yeah, there's that.

And Hobbits are like every other person in ME. That reviewer is dumb, simply dumb.

I've always been conflicted on the Extended Editions. It's like: "Now you can watch the totally better movie on your crappy television screen instead of that awesome movie theatre!" :/ Oh well. Of course I'll watch it.

I'm not sure I'll watch this movie without watching DoM right before it, though. To me it just feels like I should to get more out of it. But maybe I'll just put on certain scenes because I feel like watching them. I'm looking at you, Helm's Deep

People complain that theatrical versions are too long. No way they're gonna have that stuff in the EE too. The entire trilogy of LOTR takes half a day to watch (around 11+hours) so it's ridiculous to think they are ever gonna have EE in the theatrical version.

And Helms Deep is the epitome of epic.

stephen_dedalus aime ceci

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#178
stephen_dedalus

Posté 24 décembre 2014 - 08:42

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OK, finally saw it. I went into the theater already sick to death of the polarizing debates between apologist fanboys/girls and diehard book purists. In theory, I think that the book could have been successfully expanded into a satisfying trilogy. But the execution wasn't there for me. If the "extra" content had consisted solely of fleshing out and dramatizing material from the appendices, I'd have been fine with it. But there was too much material invented from scratch. Hell, I could have tolerated Tauriel had her primary function not been a love interest for Fili or Kili (can't keep them straight) and Legolas (for example, if she were there to illustrate class stratification in Elven society, which is something the films gestured towards but never fully explored). Also far too much Legolas heroics for my taste. Had Jackson taken his time with the Gandalf / Dol Guldur plot, I think it would have felt much more faithful to Tolkien while still permitting the filmmakers to experiment with moving past what was on the page. I could have watched Gandalf scaling mountain precipices in search of Nazgul tombs and playing MIddle Earth detective for hours. I could have watched the White Council meet and debate and launch a small campaign against the Necromancer for hours. But that material got a cursory treatment in order to save screentime for flaccid, forced romantic subplots . . . not my cup of tea, unfortunately.

Granted, some of my reservations might be ameliorated by the extended cut. The theatrical cut of Desolation was Attack of the Clones levels of atrocious to me, but the extended version removes the tedium by adjusting the pacing and makes the film more than respectable. But even in the EE, every time I see precious seconds given to the elf/dwarf romance, I'll wish that those seconds had been spent on developing plots and character arcs more deserving of the viewers' attention. And there is one thing that all of the critics seem to be getting absolutely right: not enough Bilbo.

So, I'm reserving final judgement until after the EE, but as of now I'm thinking more Gandalf, more White Council / Sauron, more Bilbo, less awful romance.