687 réponses à ce sujet

[aTigerslunch]

Yeah, agreed there.    Or Loghain's death at the hands of the Archdemon, due to sacrifice....

[Spicen]

I don't get this thing....

Why for those that commit to Leliana being killed by the Warden is a surprise on coming back?

Killed everyone in one play through, go to Awakening, Oghren is alive? Ok, talking to him. You never checked to see if I was dead Warden. ..... Ok simple enough..

Warden, does, not, check, the, dead.

So, finding out Leliana survived cause the, warden, does, not, check, the, dead, makes me think, ok, she wasn't actually killed, she feigned. How hard is that to grasp?!

Obviously too difficult for some people....

Never check the dead? i remember looting her body, if she was still warm and breathing......

[Spicen]

Well, I hope the Warden checked Arl Howe's body then... curse those crafty rogues. Maybe he's behind the Warden disappearance?

I read an article by a fan where its said teh formless one took him

[aTigerslunch]

It's possible, happened in WW1 and WW2 actually, and the fact that a body isn't cold right away when checking bodies. They are still warm and soft, they aren't immediately cold as soon as they are dead.     great....memories I would of preferred not reliving, 

[Spicen]

Feigning death is a rogue's skill. Tricking to survive later, its not a retcon, its a skill. Writer doesn't have to say, Oh, she isn't dead cause we are writing her as not dead. when I am saying feign death isn't the worst justification. Rogues do this a lot, feign death, false death, so they don't die. That isn't retcon, that is a skill being used.

People can and have survived battles by pretending death, crawled away, get healed back up and go on. How is this retcon? Its not a justification in writing, its stating, why the person didn't die, this is why. They didn't die cause they feigned. Happens often actually.

While thats a possibility, its a general consensus that her popularity in the real world kept her alive.Just shows how inconsistent da storyline is.

[Spicen]

It's possible, happened in WW1 and WW2 actually, and the fact that a body isn't cold right away when checking bodies. They are still warm and soft, they aren't immediately cold as soon as they are dead. great....memories I would of preferred not reliving,

What memories? Are u german?

[aTigerslunch]

Most that let her live, me included except one time, wouldn't mind. That one time found she was alive, didn't surprise me cause she is a rogue, she is a spy, and she was skilled enough. For the time she died, via feigning death means she could move on. Doesn't look inconsistent to me to be honest.

[aTigerslunch]

Nope, not WW2 memories, I am an army vet, I've been around death.

[Icy Magebane]

Most that let her live, me included except one time, wouldn't mind. That one time found she was alive, didn't surprise me cause she is a rogue, she is a spy, and she was skilled enough. For the time she died, via feigning death means she could move on. Doesn't look inconsistent to me to be honest.

And this is why you find it so easy to accept whatever absurd theory justifies her resurrection.  The most obvious answer is that it was a retcon.  It's not a big deal, it happens in stories.  Acting like it was always planned that way is totally out of line. 

 

Did she also teach this skill to Oghren offscreen or something... you know, just in case?  I don't recall him being a rogue... and seriously, why haven't any villains come back to life?  The Warden seems pretty thorough in killing... except in these specific cases that happen to be returning companions... but no, that couldn't possibly a simple retcon. 

[Ryzaki]

Yeah hopefully Leliana will be the only special snowflake to ignore death.

 

Don't need "lol you thought you killed me? THINK AGAIN." popping up with every killable character. Just makes the option to kill them in the first place ridiculous.

[aTigerslunch]

Villians can actually, they come back time from time for different reasons.  Yes feigning death is a rogue skill, but soldiers have been capable of dropping to the ground and pretend death pretty easily too if enemies are too busy. I would of preferred for that Warden to rekilled Oghren but wasn't given the chance to be honest. I know if it was me, I would of made sure they was dead. It is possible they are scared and stay away too if they did survive?  I know they want her alive specifically. Just to say its not possible she could of lived is silly.

 

Feigning is actually pretty easy to see. Other games have this feature as well and gotten used too. Feign is a rogue skill, so her survival is no surprise.

 

 

Edit: I agree, as long as there are no others just springing up around the corners.

[Icy Magebane]

@ aTigerslunch - So do you believe that, at the time DA:O was written, it was decided that if Leliana was defeated during this quest, she would use Feign Death to survive?

[aTigerslunch]

Justifying her survival by feign death cause she wasn't to die?  At the time I killed her in that play through, I thought she was dead, along with everyone else.

 

She met Hawke and I was surprised a little bit, not completely cause I knew ahead of time on that segment. Which led me to see, she feigned.  Ohgren just telling me straight up he wasn't actually dead, bothered me that I allowed him to crawl away, I wanted to kill him with that Warden. Since it wasn't an option, I sent him away, with that warden. Knowing how he survived didn't shock me with Leliana.

 

Now, I had Shale and Wynne dead at the same time and still see that they are dead in the Hawke's Lore too. If Shale would show up to Inquisitor when that Warden killed her, then I wouldn't like it for sure. Can a golem pretend death too? I would try to kill her again if allowed when I use that scenario.

[aTigerslunch]

In other words, one is enough, pushing two is ok, anymore than that is a no and would bother me that my Warden in that specific play through is an idiot then. My Inquisitor would have to chop his incompetent head off.

[Icy Magebane]

Interesting perspective...  Well, I don't want to keep talking off topic, so I'll just leave it at that I guess.  (edit:  and lol at the second post    I agree.)

[Elite Midget]

I don't get this thing....

 

Why for those that commit to Leliana being killed by the Warden is a surprise on coming back?

 

Killed everyone in one play through, go to Awakening, Oghren is alive?  Ok, talking to him.  You never checked to see if I was dead Warden. ..... Ok simple enough..

 

Warden, does, not, check, the, dead.

 

So, finding out Leliana survived cause the, warden, does, not, check, the, dead, makes me think, ok, she wasn't actually killed, she feigned.  How hard is that to grasp?!

 

Obviously too difficult for some people....

Right, so my evil character didn't do a deathblow on her or Oghren? Pretty sure I saw them pretty headless when I last left them on that file.

[aTigerslunch]

You do realize that the combat animation of slicing head is just random and isn't done to every death?  As I never had that animation when I killed them two myself, not everyone will get a head slice animation while some will. Still going with the same, feign death, regardless if the animation showed head slice or not cause that is random anime.

[Elite Midget]

You do realize that the combat animation of slicing head is just random and isn't done to every death?  As I never had that animation when I killed them two myself, not everyone will get a head slice animation while some will. Still going with the same, feign death, regardless if the animation showed head slice or not cause that is random anime.

Still can happen, fact is that it's a huge retcon that doesn't respect the players choice. No explanation Oghren gives can satisfy the fact that you can de-head him.

 

Furthermore the Warden loots the bodies of those they kill. No way they wouldn't check to see if someone is dead or not, it's simply Bioware making a poor excuse to overlook a possible death because they wanted to get more mileage out of the character. Thus the players choice to kill those characters aren't respected because Bioware's plot and story doesn't have room to respect it.

 

Call it as it is.

[aTigerslunch]

Ignore the headcut animation, that is only optional for bloodbath settings, game mechanics not character choice. This is why I say not to think on that, cause that is just a game mechanic, not choice.

 

Choice to kill Leliana is there, it happens if you choose to do so, now, as you walked away from her body, she could of fooled you into thinking she was dead. It is very possible. Cant deny someone can do this can you? It happened in real history more than once. Soldiers done this time and again and she is a rogue. You can argue with me that you absolutely WILL not consider it as possible, but it is possible amongst rogues, its one of their skills. Look them up, it's one of their skillsets amongst all fantasy rogue skillsets. Looting a body right after a kill, doesn't mean can be noticed, bodies are warm.,.......ugh!!!!  I KNOW bodies are not cold immediately after death, less you dealt with a death close up and personal please quit. Bodies are not cold instantly, and they are still flexible, they even can still have nerve flinches.

 

Digressing here, making me mad to relive a memory.

 

Mechanic of game turned on or off, mine was on, isn't a character choice. Relook at rogue skills in fantasy or other rpgs, feign death is in DA. Oghren living, soldiers done it in wars in real history, even been stripped of items whilst alive. When under duress, noticing small things can be overlooked after a battle.

 

You or anyone else cant change my mind when it is POSSIBLE to fake deaths by someone that is SKILLED to do so. Oghren does push the bounds a bit, but not a skilled rogue.

[Elite Midget]

It very much is character choice as I made sure to get that head off his shoulders. 

 

I stabbed her through the chest... Multiple times. I also defiled the Ashes. Maybe she could have fooled your Warden but mine made sure that the dead stay dead and always loots bodies that are covered in a pool of blood. So yes, I can as my Warden isn't an incompetent idiot when it comes to killing. If they were than what's stopping the Archdemon "playing dead" and tricking everyone with that light show?

 

So all the retconned deaths push the bounds unless you honestly believe that the Player's characters is completely and utterly incompetent despite all parts of Origins stating otherwise and how "awesome" the Warden is.

 

Fact is that certain choices AREN'T respected if they get in the way of the narrative that Bioware wants to tell. Hence why some choices, like certain deaths, are outright ignored and if you choose less favorable choices you don't even get a cameo or the such compared to choosing favorable choices.

[aTigerslunch]

Actually she fooled anyone's, besides, her statement also includes "The Maker didn't see it fit for my time."

 

Not everyone is skilled in Feigning, it is in her skills. Take another look at rogues, and the head chop IS a game mechanic. I looted her as well when she fell. I saw what it looked like.

 

Faking a death from a rogue is possible, you decline to think so, apparently you also haven't touched a live fresh dead body either like I have. Cause you keep making me go back to that image, we are done here. No more chatter for us. Sorry.

 

Remember it IS POSSIBLE to FAKE a death, people in REAL LIFE done this. Besides the fact, THE MAKER according to her did save her.  enough of this, cause you CANT see past your own self. It is possible, and Oghren is the one that bothers me that he lived, not Leliana due to her words and skills.

 

But we are done, we are not going to agree cause you think its impossible for someone to fake deaths.

 

EDIT: Sorry but had to ignore any further arguments.

[Former_Fiend]

My problem with the "feigned death" argument is that it imposes a degree of stupidity on my character.

 

I would prefer a direct retcon, either that the fight never happened or that instead of fighting to the death she fled, or perhaps an actual supernatural explanation of she died and then was brought back.

 

And of course, hindsight is twenty twenty, but I think if Bioware had any inkling that they were going to bring her back as a major character, then they shouldn't have had her death take place in combat the way it did and rather be something like the Warden stabbing Morrigan in Witch Hunt.

[aTigerslunch]

I agree with that Former Fiend.  Though she did state the Maker saw it fit for her survival, wasnt her time.  So it was Supernatural, regardless of Feign death or not. I wanted to kill Oghren when he popped back up in Awakening but wasnt given the choice. Leliana was out of Warden's reach and left it as that, otherwise the Warden that tried to kill her once, would of tried again.

[Dabrikishaw]

My problem with the "feigned death" argument is that it imposes a degree of stupidity on my character.

 

I would prefer a direct retcon, either that the fight never happened or that instead of fighting to the death she fled, or perhaps an actual supernatural explanation of she died and then was brought back.

 

And of course, hindsight is twenty twenty, but I think if Bioware had any inkling that they were going to bring her back as a major character, then they shouldn't have had her death take place in combat the way it did and rather be something like the Warden stabbing Morrigan in Witch Hunt.

Or just not making Leliana killable in the first place.

[Jazzpha]

Yeah, Leliana's crisis point reaction could have just been to walk away in disgust. Having a rogue try to solo 3 other people was just suicide. Wynne doesn't fight you over the ashes right? She just leaves, if I remember right.